cricket27 164 Report post Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) The Macchi M.C. 205V was created as one of the three serie 5 Italian fighters, and like all of them it used the DB 605A and is argued as being the best Italian fighter. Like the others, the M.C. 205 had planned evolution's of itself to make it a more powerful aircraft. The most well known of these evolution's are the M.C. 205 N1 and N2 Orione, both of which being designed for high altitude fighting. Both of these aircraft were given larger wings and heavier armaments, but these all added a lot of weight to the base design, which had a negative affect on maneuverability, speed, and climb rate. The M.C. 205 N2 most notably suffered worse from this due to its heavier armament than the N1. It was realized that modifications to these air frames was needed to make them better performers. This is where the M.C. 206 would come in. The M.C. 206 would feature an even larger wing (21m2), and would have either had the armament on the M.C. 205 N1 (4x12.7mm and 1x20mm), or the N2 (2x12.7mm and 3x20mm).* The design had reached prototype status with one being completed, but it was destroyed in a bombing raid by the allies. Then comes the M.C. 207, this aircraft was significantly larger, mainly because of its use of a DB 603A engine in place of the DB 605A. In addition, the armament was also changed to 4x20mm cannons. The M.C. 207 was under construction, but with the end of the war, it was never completed. Now I know that both of these fighters never flew, but it would not be that hard to get them into War Thunder. All we have to do is model how the larger wing and the armament of the M.C. 206 would have affected the maneuverability and climb rate of the the M.C. 205N. That is how you get the M.C. 206. Then, add the weight and the power of the DB 603A to the M.C. 206, and the 4x20mm armament as well, and then you get the M.C. 207. So don't lose hope because these fighters never flew, getting into the game would not be too hard. Camouflages for both aircraft would probably consist of late war (1944-1945) ANR markings, and/or Luftwaffe markings. I have put some attached files below that will show how the evolution's would have looked. *I have seen pictures and sources saying both, so I do not know which one would have been chosen. Sources: http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=806 http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_macchi_mc206.html http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_macchi_mc207.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macchi_C.205 Edited August 24, 2018 by cricket27 Grammar mistakes and typos fixed. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
misanthrope0 195 Report post Posted May 29, 2017 All of these need to be in there to flesh out the tree. 1 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaterialWharf3 454 Report post Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) The C.207 would be nice for this year's T2 summer event award. I fully support. Edited June 5, 2017 by MaterialWharf3 Also, where the hell is my Regia Aeronautica badge? I have both the G.55S and CR.32bis 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Technical Moderator Rapitor 10,702 Report post Posted June 5, 2017 @MaterialWharf3 Delog and relog on the forum. Wait 10 secs after delog before relogging. You might have to repeat the process a few time. That will update your 'credentials' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket27 164 Report post Posted June 12, 2017 On 6/5/2017 at 7:29 AM, MaterialWharf3 said: The C.207 would be nice for this year's T2 summer event award. I fully support. That would be nice, but as an award though? I feel like this might be better as a regular addition to the tree, and not an award. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrobroSwagginz 339 Report post Posted January 16, 2018 I fail to understand why the Macchi and Fiat fighters are in the same line in the first place. Italy should have three seperate fighter lines. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L_Serra_Pilota 1,582 Report post Posted January 17, 2018 22 hours ago, FrobroSwagginz said: I fail to understand why the Macchi and Fiat fighters are in the same line in the first place. Italy should have three seperate fighter lines. Because there would have been too wide gaps .... for example between the G.50 and the G.55 there is an ocean and was not possible to make too many new models . 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergenteA 223 Report post Posted June 25, 2018 Considering both fighters were mentioned in the Shooting Range and the M.C.206 in particular was deemed possible I think we may see them in the future. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada4T_T 7 Report post Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) I have found some more information regarding the MC.206 and the MC.207. For the MC.206 I found some images that claim to be the partial construction of its airframe. Spoiler Part of the Fuselage: Spoiler Accompanying text: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler "Macchi suffered two bombings in Varese in the spring 1944 that blocked the productive activity." Italian(original): Spoiler "La Macchi subi due bombardamenti a Varese nella primavera 1944 che bloccarono I'attivita produttiva." Source: Spoiler Page: 18 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n19 Wings and another view of the front of the fuselage: Spoiler Accompanying text: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler "In the second bombardment all that was left of the MC.206 prototype went: the specimen under construction is visible in close up in the photo on the opposite page and above on the right (G. Apostolo archive)." Italian(original): Spoiler "Nel secondo bombardamento andò dlstrutto quanto restava del prototipo MC.206: I'esemplare in costruzione è visibile in primo piano nella foto della pagina a fianco e qui sopra a destra (archivio G. Apostolo)." Source: Spoiler Pages: 19 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n19 Another image of the wing: Spoiler Accompanying text: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler "The longitudinal member of the wing of C.206, brought to the factory of Schiranna on Lake Varese, had been damaged for one accidental explosion on 22 October 1943." Italian(original): Spoiler "II longherone dell'ala del C.206, portato nella fabbrica di Schiranna sul lago di Varese, era stato danneggiato per una esplosione accidentale il 22 ottobre 1943." Source: Spoiler Page:21 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n21 Regarding the MC.207: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler "It is interesting to note that the adoption of the new types of water and oil radiators (the latter of two would have been reduced to one) and of the wing built in one piece was also proposed for C.205V / Veltro, allowing, thanks to the reduction of the aerodynamic resistance and the saving of fifty kilograms on the structural weight, to improve the speed of flight and climb." "On 1 April, the Macchi lost a bomb from Allied planes, which blocked the productive activity: the bombing was repeated on the following April 30 and on this occasion destroyed what remained of the C.206 prototype, thus decreeing the definitive abandonment of this fighter (note 5)." "Together with the C.206, the German engine Daimler Benz DB.603 of 1750 HP became available, I'ing. Castoldi developed the project of another fighter plane, to exploit the greater power of the engine: called C.207, this plane should have been Macchi's proposal for that "fourth generation" of fighter planes that did not see the light because of armistice (note 6)." "The plane appeared quite similar to C.206, but the greater weight of the DB603 (910 kg dry against the 751 of the DB605), imposed some variations in the front: the weapons in the fuselage were eliminated, they were varied the capacity of the tanks (that of the fuselage, in front of the pilot, was brought to 405 liters, while the two in the central part of the wing were reduced to 80 liters each, against the 245 and 120 liters of the tanks of C.206) and the back part of the fuselage was lengthened so as to balance the weights. The fletchings also underwent changes as a result, being reduced in size and surface area." "The armament adopted was four 20 mm cannons, all placed in the wings and firing outside the propeller disk, equipped with 250 rounds per weapon. The wings, equal in opening and layout to those of C.206, varied in construction details, both for the installation of the four arms, and for the structure of the wing spars; the trolley increased in height and track probably due to the lengthening of the stroke of the shock absorbers imposed by the greater weight of the plane. For the 207 were then provided all the improvements studied for 205 and 206." "The project was almost completed on this fighter and the construction of the fuselage was begun, but this was suspended on 8 September; in the post-war period the possibility of building the aircraft with an American engine was ventilated (probably the Packard Merlin, with a solution similar to that which led to the realization of the Fiat G.59), but as is known the proposal was not followed and C.205V produced after the end of the Second World War remain the last airplanes made by Macchi on the original project." Antonio Faizoni Italian (Original): Spoiler "E interessante notare che I'adozione dei nuovi tipi di radiatori dell'acqua e dell'olio (questi ultimi da due sarebbero stati ridotti a uno) e dell'ala co- struita in un sol pezzo venne proposta anche per il C.205V/Veltro, consentendo, grazie alia riduzio- ne della resistenza aerodinamica e al risparmio di una cinquantina di chilogrammi sul peso struttu- rale, di migliorare le velocita di volo e di salita." "II 1° aprile, perd, la Macchi subi un bombarda-mento da parte degli aerei alleati, che blocc6 I'at-tivita produttiva: il bombardamento xxxx ripetuto il 30 aprile successivo e in questa occasione ando distrutto quanto restava del prototipo del C.206, decretando cosi I'abbandono definitivo di questo caccia (nota 5)." "Assieme al C.206, resosi disponibile il motore te- desco Daimler Benz DB.603 da 1750 HP, I'ing. Castoldi sviluppo il progetto di un altro aereo da caccia, per sfruttare la maggior potenza del propulsore: denominato C.207, questo aereo avrebbe dovuto essere la proposta della Macchi per quella « quarta generazione » di aerei da caccia che non vide la luce a causa deM'armistizio (nota 6)." "L'aereo si presentava abbastanza simile al C.206, ma il maggior peso del DB.603 (910 kg a secco contro i 751 del DB.605), impose alcune variazioni nella parte anteriore: furono eliminate le armi in fusoliera, vennero variate le capacita dei serbatoi (quello di fusoliera, di fronte al pilota, venne portato a 405 litri, mentre i due nella parte centrale dell'ala furono ridotti a 80 litri ciascuno, contro i 245 e 120 litri dei serbatoi del C.206) e xxxx allungata la parte posteriore della fusoliera in modo da equilibrare i pesi. Anche gli impennaggi subirono di conseguenza delle modifiche, venendo ridotti di dimensioni e di superficie." "L'armamento adottato xxxx di quattro cannoncini da 20 mm, tutti posti nelle ali e sparanti al di fuori del disco dell'elica, dotati di 250 colpi per arma. Le ali, uguali in apertura e pianta a quelle del C.206, variavano nei dettagli costruttivi, sia per I'installazione delle quattro armi, sia per la struttura dei longheroni alari; il carrello aumentava di altezza e di carreggiata probabilmente a causa deM'allungamento della corsa degli ammortizzatori imposto dal maggior peso delI'aereo. Per il 207 erano poi previsti tutti i perfe-zionamenti studiati per il 205 e 206." "Di questo caccia xxxx pressochè ultimato il progetto e venne iniziata la costruzione della fusoliera, ma questa venne sospesa l'8 settembre; nel dopoguerra venne ventilata la possibility di costruire l'aereo con un motore americano (probabilmente il Packard Merlin, con soluzione analoga a quella che portò alia realizzazione del Fiat G.59), ma come è noto la proposta non ebbe seguito e i C.205V prodotti dopo la fine della Seconda Guerra Mondiale restano gli ultimi aeroplani realizzati dalla Macchi su progetto originale." Antonio Faizoni Source: Spoiler Pages: 12-14 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n13 Dimensions of Mario Castoldi's Aircraft: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler c.205V 1' serie c.205V 30 serie C.205N M.M.499 C.205N M.M.500 C.206 C.207 c.202 Wingspan m 10,580 10,580 11,250 11,250 12,142 12,142 10,580 Right wing opening m 5,190 5,190 5,615 5,615 5,971 5,971 5,190 Left wing opening m 5,390 5,390 5,635 5,635 6,171 6,171 5.390 Length m 8,850 8,850 9,549 9,549 9,335 9,735 8,850 Online flight height m 3,488 3,488 3,640 3,655 Seated height m 3,036 3,036 3,250 3,250 3,095 3,250 3,036 Medium wing cord m 1 ,590 1 ,590 1 ,690 1,690 1,795 1,795 1 ,590 Wing elongation m 6,663 6,663 6,661 6,661 7,020 7,020 6,663 Wing surface m2 16,800 16,800 19,000 19,000 21,000 21,000 16,800 Right wing surface m2 Left wing surface m2 1 ,249 1 ,249 1,353 1,353 0,6865 0,7470 0,6865 0,7470 1 ,249 Hilly feathering surface m2 2,220 2,220 2,520 2,520 2,874C) 2,54320 2,220 Surface of the fletching area m2 1,066 1,066 1 ,200 1,200 1,309 (2) 1 ,066 Slow-lift surface m2 2 x 0,838 2 x 0,838 2 x 0,922 2 x 0,922 2x 1,1883 2x1,1883 2 x 0,838 Propeller diameter m 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,150 3,050 Track cart m 3,000 3,000 3,330 3,890 3,000 Empty weight kg 2.568 2.581 2.695 2.759 2.578 3.292 2.357 Italian (Original) Spoiler c.205V 1' serie c.205V 30 serie C.205N M.M.499 C.205N M.M.500 C.206 C.207 c.202 Apertura alare m 10,580 10,580 11,250 11,250 12,142 12,142 10,580 Apertura ala destra m 5,190 5,190 5,615 5,615 5,971 5,971 5,190 Apertura ala sinistra m 5,390 5,390 5,635 5,635 6,171 6,171 5.390 Lunghezza m 8,850 8,850 9,549 9,549 9,335 9,735 8,850 Altezza in linea di volo m 3,488 3,488 3,640 3,655 Altezza seduto m 3,036 3,036 3,250 3,250 3,095 3,250 3,036 Corda alare media m 1 ,590 1 ,590 1 ,690 1,690 1,795 1,795 1 ,590 Allungamento alare m 6,663 6,663 6,661 6,661 7,020 7,020 6,663 Superficie alare m2 16,800 16,800 19,000 19,000 21,000 21,000 16,800 Superficie alettone destro m2 Superficie alettone sinistro m2 1 ,249 1 ,249 1,353 1,353 0,6865 0,7470 0,6865 0,7470 1 ,249 Superficie impennaggio orizz. m2 2,220 2,220 2,520 2,520 2,874C) 2,54320 2,220 Superficie impennaggio vert. m2 1,066 1,066 1 ,200 1,200 1,309 (2) 1 ,066 Superficie ipersostantatore m2 2 x 0,838 2 x 0,838 2 x 0,922 2 x 0,922 2x 1,1883 2x1,1883 2 x 0,838 Diametro elica m 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,050 3,150 3,050 Carreggiata carrello m 3,000 3,000 3,330 3,890 3,000 Peso a vuoto kg 2.568 2.581 2.695 2.759 2.578 3.292 2.357 Source: Spoiler Page: 21 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n21 Information about the MC.207 expected performance with the DB.603 engine: Spoiler English (Google Translate): Spoiler Hunting Aer.Macchi C.207 - Engine DB.603 - 1510 HP at 5700 m - 2500 rpm with reducer Equipped with a wing surface of m2 21 - Armed with 4 20 mm guns in the wings. Dimensions (see table). Weights Total weight at full load kg 4340 Weight of the unladen aircraft » 3292 Total useful load » 1048 Composition of payload: Pilot with parachute kg 85 4 guns 20 mm caliber » 169 Loads 250 rounds per weapon (total 1000 rounds) » 218 Radio system » 56 Collimator S. Giorgio and inal. oxygen » 13 Total gasoline » 470 Oil » 37 Capacity of petrol tanks Fuselage front It 405 2 tanks in the wings - total » 160 Fuselage rear » 80 _____________ Total It 645 Expected performances Maximum speed in altitude km / hour 700. DB.603 engine characteristics Length mm 2610 Width » 1167 Height » 830 Normal engine revolutions n. 2500 Normal propeller turns » 1295 Emergency power at 5700 m at 27500 rpm, supply pressure 1.40 kg / cm 2 HP 1620. Normal power at 5700 m at 2500 rpm, supply pressure 1.30 km / cm 2 HP 1510. Ground power, start and emergency, 2700 rpm, supply pressure 1.40 kg / cm 2 HP 1750. Italian (Original): Spoiler Caccia Aer.Macchi C.207 - Motore DB.603 - 1510 HP a 5700 m - 2500 giri con riduttore Dotato di una superficie alare di m 2 21 - Armato con 4 cannoni da 20 mm nelle ali. Dimensioni (vedi tabella). PesiPeso totale a pieno carico kg 4340Peso del velivolo a vuoto » 3292 Carico utile totale » 1048Composizione del carico utile:Pilota con paracadute kg 854 cannoni calibro 20 mm » 169 Cariche 250 colpi per arma (tot. 1000 colpi) » 218Impianto radio » 56 Collimatore S. Giorgio e inal. ossigeno » 13 Benzina totale » 470 Olio » 37 Capacità dei serbatoi di benzinaAnteriore di fusoliera It 405 2 serbatoi nelle ali - totale » 160 Posteriore di fusoliera » 80 _____________ Totale It 645 Prestazioni previste Velocità massima in quota km/ora 700. Caratteristiche del motore DB.603Lunghezza mm 2610 Larghezza » 1167Altezza » 830Giri normali del motore n. 2500 Giri normali dell'elica » 1295 Potenza di emergenza a 5700 m a 27500 giri, pressione di alimentazione 1.40 kg/cm 2 HP 1620. Potenza normale a 5700 m a 2500 giri, pressione di alimentazione 1.30 km/cm2 HP 1510. Potenza al suolo, partenza ed emergenza, 2700 giri, pressione di alimentazione 1.40 kg/cm 2 HP 1750. Source: Spoiler Page: 20 https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801/page/n21 Sources: Spoiler https://archive.org/details/Aerofan197801 http://www.avia-it.com/act/la_tecnica/la_tecnica_di_ieri/Tecnica_ieri_2015/Seg_art_mar_15/L_Aermacchi_C_205.pdf Edited May 5, 2019 by Espada4T_T Formatting 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
