japanese Type 95 Hiro-Sha

[CaID 8,996]

I would like to propose the coversion of the Type 95 into a SPAG with a 120mm gun.

The Hi-ro sha.

In 1934, the japanese army built 4 Type 95 heavy tank for prototype test, they decide the heavy tank wasn't valuable for the japanese army, but there wasn't the end of the type 95 heavy tank. In 1935 the Japanese converted the Type 95 into SPG with the

 

The Hiro sha was an open top SPG with the gun in the front of the tank with a thin shield for light gun and shrapnel. the main and front auxiliary turret was removed from the original type 95, only the rear turret remain, the gained space was for the new gun. his crew and ammunition. according to the Japanese information release of the Ji-Ro experimental tanks, the gun was a Japanese imported Schneider Carnet 1898 that was originally used as coastal defense but withdraw from active services in the 30s. the experimental tanks was found in Takeyama Airport in the entrance of the Tokyo Bay.

 

Specifications
Weight	unknow
Length	6.47 m (21.25 ft.)
Width	2.69 m (8.8 ft.)
Height	unknow
Crew	2+ gun's crew
Armor	12–35 mm
Main armament	1x 120mm Schneider Carnet 1898
Secondary armament	7.7 mm type 97 (1950 bullet)
Engine	Inline 6-cylinder engine[2] 290 hp
Suspension	Leaf-Spring
Operational range	110 km
Speed	22 km/h (13.7 mph)

Caliber	12cm
Carriage
Elevation	-12 to +15 degrees
Traverse	?
Rate of fire	?
Muzzle velocity	530 m/s (1,772 ft/s)
Maximum firing range	11,900 m (13,014 yd)

 

 

source

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/斯加式十二糎速射加農砲

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/japan/type-91-type-95-heavy.php

http://ww2data.blogspot.ca/2015/07/imperial-japanese-army-ammunition-15cm.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_95_Heavy_Tank

 

Special tanks to @Mai_Waffentrager for the info on the gun.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by CaID

[blakeob 8,086]

Open for discussion. 

Edited May 29, 2017 by blakeob

[_EQUAI_ 356]

Awesome maybe these could be added after the Na To. but what kind of pen are we talking about here?

[CaID 8,996]

20 minutes ago, BLUEBLACK_EQUAI said:

Awesome maybe these could be added after the Na To. but what kind of pen are we talking about here?

the shell size and velocity is close to the KV-2 that mean the penetration should also not be much different. however, the Hiro-sha have the APHE which should have a better pen. i couldn't find the accurate penetration since those shell are meant to be artillery shell to break down building and bunker. but i found the specification for each shell and according to it, we can calculated the average penetration. and also the Hiro-sha should have a better reload that the KV-2, even with a reduced crew for the Type 96, it can have a reload of about 30sec stock. this could easily make it to tier 3-4

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

jesus christ the filling on those both APHE shells is insane. but 5.2 kilos of picric acid? that's one shell i'd grind like crazy for.

picric acid is considered as 1.2x the effectiveness of TNT so about 6.24kg TNT-equivalent, or just a little less than the best shell on the KV-2 with it's 6.51kg TNT-equivalent.

 

i support this! japan is severely lacking at midtier and as unwieldy and fragile as this is, it's the poor man's KV-2 in every way save for the nuclear death cannon. and that smoke shell probably produces a cloud the size of Africa.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Umm, that cannon is not a 150mm. Its an old French Schneider 120mm cannon that the Japanese had lying around. Mai Waffentrager has talked about it a few times.

 

[CaID 8,996]

18 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Umm, that cannon is not a 150mm. Its an old French Schneider 120mm cannon that the Japanese had lying around. Mai Waffentrager has talked about it a few times.

 

 

are you sure of this? the only Schneider 120mm that correspond to this cannon on the picture was the model 1897 which was built in about 40 gun and sold to Serbian and Bulgaria. However it do look like the Japanese type 96 who was produced from 1937. if there did wanted to try a new gun on a tank to make a tank destroyer. they would probably take a old tank that was rusting around waiting to be dismantled. the Type 95 was built in 1935. it's highly possible that at least 1 of them was still laying around in the Japanese compound of some factory in 1937

 

or maybe you know another Schneider 120mm that look like the one on the type 95 Hiro-sha?

 

i will also use that picture. i was looking for something to show the rear turret

Edited May 29, 2017 by CaID

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

1 minute ago, CaID said:

 

are you sure of this? the only Schneider 120mm that correspond to this cannon on the picture was the model 1897 which was built in about 40 gun and sold to Serbian and Bulgaria. However it do look like the Japanese type 96 who was produced from 1937. if there did wanted to try a new gun on a tank to make a tank destroyer. they would probably take a old tank that was rusting around waiting to be dismantled. the Type 95 was built in 1935. it's highly possible that at least 1 of them was still laying around in the Japanese compound of some factory in 1937

 

or maybe you know another Schneider 120mm that look like the one on the type 95 Hiro-sha?

Mai is the one with the info. I would recommend sending her a PM.

[_EQUAI_ 356]

8 hours ago, CaID said:

the shell size and velocity is close to the KV-2 that mean the penetration should also not be much different. however, the Hiro-sha have the APHE which should have a better pen. i couldn't find the accurate penetration since those shell are meant to be artillery shell to break down building and bunker. but i found the specification for each shell and according to it, we can calculated the average penetration. and also the Hiro-sha should have a better reload that the KV-2, even with a reduced crew for the Type 96, it can have a reload of about 30sec stock. this could easily make it to tier 3-4

Perfect 

[Arin171 205]

This tank scares me, but I would give it a +1

[Delta_48 471]

+1 It might be a bit much, but would still love it to be added

[igeticsu 3,400]

Would make great addition! I support

[LUCACE 9]

lol it looks like the baby of a T95. 

[CaID 8,996]

2 hours ago, LUCACE said:

lol it looks like the baby of a T95. 

it's more like his Japanese Grampa. something like old mr Miyagi

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

2 hours ago, CaID said:

it's more like his Japanese Grampa. something like old mr Miyagi

 

"but how do i fight cold war tanks Mr. Miyagi?"

"simple. it enough training, time, and dedication... you can DOMINATE THE OPPOSITION!" 

 

...in my headcanon, Mr. Miyagi became a diehard warhammer 40k Khorne fanatic. trust me he's cooler this way.

...also, a khorne skin for a giant derping japanese SPG... i'll just stick that on the old to-do list.

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

On 5/29/2017 at 4:19 PM, CaID said:

 

are you sure of this? the only Schneider 120mm that correspond to this cannon on the picture was the model 1897 which was built in about 40 gun and sold to Serbian and Bulgaria. However it do look like the Japanese type 96 who was produced from 1937.

 

 

It's a schneider...

 

[LUCACE 9]

14 hours ago, CaID said:

it's more like his Japanese Grampa. something like old mr Miyagi

i will teach you the way of the derp XD 

[CaID 8,996]

10 hours ago, Mai_Waffentrager said:

 

 

It's a schneider...

 

No it's not. that gun doesn't match and wasn't found in Japan. the picture is more like a review of the gun from some Japanese magazine to me. the crew is clearly from the French Navy in the early 1900s

the gun doesn't even match.

 

it was a type 41 12cm

here some comparison to prove the match.

 

the Type 41 was produced in Japan and was used as coastal gun and naval gun. the gun can have a recoil spring which is perfectly matching with the gun on the picture. the British QF 4.7inches was the original gun which the Type 41 12cm was based on. the British gun was also used the AP shell.

 

It also have better match with the Type 3 120mm 11years that was used in Japan for coastal defense. the muzzle, the collar and recoil spring match but the collar is a little far from the shield and mechanical part on the side doesn't match

 

here there is also the Type 10 12cm dual purpose that have a matching muzzle, spring and mechanical part on the side but not the collar. the Type 10 was also used as AAA

Edited July 16, 2017 by CaID

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

I'm sorry but you clearly cannot read Japanese. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a Schneider. Japan had multiple Schneider cannons at hand during the 30's. Two of them were used in the project, both a Long and Shortened 120mm Schneider cannon. It's clearly a Schneider, Japanese sources prove its a Schneider.

 

 

Please stop talking about a field of vehicles you clearly are not intelligent in.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Mai_Waffentrager

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

Neither can you even recall the name of the tank properly. Its the Ji-Ro. If you had any scrape of knowledge in Japanese tanks you could have known even this much. The tank was part of the Ro-Go conversion project under the name Ji-Ro. Two prototypes built, and this specific model is the Experimental 12cm Self Propelled Gun. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Mai_Waffentrager

[CaID 8,996]

1 hour ago, Mai_Waffentrager said:

I'm sorry but you clearly cannot read Japanese. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a Schneider. Japan had multiple Schneider cannons at hand during the 30's. Two of them were used in the project, both a Long and Shortened 120mm Schneider cannon. It's clearly a Schneider, Japanese sources prove its a Schneider.

 

 

Please stop talking about a field of vehicles you clearly are not intelligent in.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mai_Waffentrager said:

Neither can you even recall the name of the tank properly. Its the Ji-Ro. If you had any scrape of knowledge in Japanese tanks you could have known even this much. The tank was part of the Ro-Go conversion project under the name Ji-Ro. Two prototypes built, and this specific model is the Experimental 12cm Self Propelled Gun. 

the recoil spring on the gun of the tank is clearly centered and way bigger that the one on the Schneider. Plus there is no record that the Schneider was ever found in Japan. all those picture drawing which could be interpretation or hypotheses from someone who is for me Unknown. keep in mind that so far you don't show any evidence of that gun was ever in Japan but only your word. i will need something more than that. just admit that the Type 41 is more alike the gun on that picture than the one Schneider.

 

For the name, i know there is no official name but more a name that was needed to refer as this tanks. Experimental 12cm could be any tanks with a 120mm. HIro and Ji-Ro is two name for the same project. there is reference of that same tank under the both name. it doesn't matter how you see it.

 

So far i address you with all due respect and i would be happy if you keep it the same way. you don't know my back ground, you don't know my knowledge and you don't know anything about me, you may don't like me but to arguer is healthy for the mind. no need to make personal insult.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, CaID said:

No it's not. that gun doesn't match and wasn't found in Japan. the picture is more like a review of the gun from some Japanese magazine to me. the crew is clearly from the French Navy in the early 1900s

the gun doesn't even match.

 

it was a type 41 12cm

here some comparison to prove the match.

 

it's clearly a Type 41 to me

[caid_wife 3]

2 hours ago, Mai_Waffentrager said:

Neither can you even recall the name of the tank properly. Its the Ji-Ro. If you had any scrape of knowledge in Japanese tanks you could have known even this much. The tank was part of the Ro-Go conversion project under the name Ji-Ro. Two prototypes built, and this specific model is the Experimental 12cm Self Propelled Gun. 

 

he almost finish his master in History at the university. he is always reading about that.

 

he always recheck everything and when he is wrong he will admit it. but i don't think he is about that gun. just that picture make it clear to me. the gun on that thank doesn't look like a shcneider.

Edited July 17, 2017 by caid_wife

[CaID 8,996]

 

on that picture we can clearly see that the recoil spring is a single and big one centered, the Schneider had 2 smaller spring. the Type 41 did had the same size of spring tube and centered too.

so unless the Japanese got the Schneider gun, modified the spring, elevation gear, and muzzle, produced the shell that fit with it and put it on that tanks and only on this tank for experimental use than i will change it but not before having clear prove of it. until them it will remain unchanged because i am pretty sure it was the Type 41.

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Since there was a bit of a heated debate over the matter, as a reminder, please keep the discussion nice, civil and free of heated speech in accordance to the forum rules. Warnings have been appropriately issued.

 

Thank you.

Edited July 17, 2017 by SAUBER_KH7