Posted March 4, 2023 I merged some of the recent airfield AA threads into this one. Please keep airfield AA discussion here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Senior Forum Moderator _Catweazle_63 9,834 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Hi, We see a great deal of threads pop up dealing with Airfield AAA. Now, for feedback to have any effect it's best these discussions centralised in one spot for which this pinned thread is created. This way we can make sure every player can relay their feedback and it can be traced easily by those that are in need of feedback on this issue. So please use this thread for all Airfield AAA Discussions - feedback - issues. The following discussion-threads have been redirected here: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/257885-the-amount-of-airfield-aaa-campers-is-getting-crazy33/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372472-sick-and-tired-of-aaa-and-ai/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372233-airfield-aaas-battle-rating/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372040-a-common-sense-way-to-fix-airbase-aaa-no-flame-wars-or-rants-plz/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/371711-airfield-aaa-still/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/371416-ok-gaijin-wtf-have-you-done-to-the-aaa/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/367071-abuse-of-airfields-aaa/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/363126-air-rb-airfield-aaa-camping/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/362311-broken-base-aa-not-like-you-think/ 1 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 So it is obvious that airfield is needed to - stop the lurking and killing of every single landing plane. No doubt this would happen soon after the removal of AAA. - Keep the fights somewhat consentrated (mostly just guessing this is the case) by making people work for their kills ( connected to lurking, hope you catch my logic.) Why it sucks atm: - obvious exploit of the AAA when the air superiority hasn't been achieved. The current answer is to focus on the mission objectives. Assuming your team has ground attack capable planes left, so there's a problem. How to win a match in a hurricane with 8 rifle calibre mg's? Let's say there are only hard targets left. And now is the time for the famous "if you don't circle his AF, hell climb above you and BnZ you to death." not nice. I want to play, not patrol over a dot in the fear of that dot raining lead on me 5 mins later. Maybe it is not an exploit, but an artificial way of trying to balance matches? I don't like it either way. Community solution proposals include nerfing, disabling when only one left, shrinking the fridge thrower bubble, not firing when there are friendlies airborne in the bubble... and so on. I play mostly low BR so there is a way to bleed enemy tickets with whatever you're flying in in the majority of cases. And with a small adjustment to my mentality I have grown to not care about AAA campers that much anymore. But it would be nice to see some adjustment to either AAA AI or mission structure to end the game sooner when the air I'm flying in is totally uncontested. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Sereck 88 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Recently I've shared an idea that could work: 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... xBromanx 6,897 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) AAA, since it's current incarnation was implemented over a year ago, has become a huge issue for much of the playerbase. The issue stems from its exploitability. AAA is pretty much an iron curtain that almost always obliterates any enemy who enters its area of influence within several seconds of doing so. This has created a mentality within the general playerbase that, whenever they find themselves in trouble, they can simply sprint to the AAA for protection, rather than attempting to win a fight on their own. In other words, it protects players from their mistakes, which indirectly punishes players for flying well. This results in boring gameplay at the best, and incredibly frustrating gameplay at the worst. It is my opinion that the AAA should be greatly reduced in effectiveness, or even removed completely from Air RB. There is no reason why anyone should deserve to be protected AAA, as the majority of the time they would seek its protection would be because they made a mistake, or their plane suffers from an inherent weakness that should not be compensated for. "My plane is damaged and I need to repair." If you took damage from an enemy, it's because you or your team made a mistake, or because your enemy flew very well. There is no reason you should be protected from your mistakes, or your enemy should be denied their victory because of their success. "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. "My plane has very limited fuel or ammo. I can't help that I need to RTB." My P-47D can't out-turn a Spitfire. I don't get any compensation for that. If your plane has a weakness, then you need to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I want AAA shooting at Spits whenever they start to outturn my P-47D. "Vultures will ruin the game by camping our airfield to pick us off when we RTB." If there are enemy players that avoid combat until you have to RTB, then that means you should have the initial advantage against their team. They will be outnumbered when combat starts, so your team should be capable of overcoming them. If you have to RTB despite having an advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes, or the enemy team flew very well. You should not be protected from your mistakes, and the enemy team should not be punished. "In real life, airfield had AAA to protect RTBing pilots, so War Thunder should to." IRL, if I let an enemy RTB, I would not have to worry about seeing that plane in the air again for several hours (at least). There would be no chance of me seeing that enemy until possibly my next mission. In War Thunder, if I let a player RTB, within a few minutes they can be back in the fight with an energy advantage (assuming I have to deal with other targets). If you want realism where AAA is concerned, leave it how it is (even if it is unrealistically powerful), and kick any player that lands back to the hangar. The outcome of any Air RB match should be determined by the players, not by some AI AAA. Please remove the AAA, or at least make it much less effective. Edited July 24, 2017 by xBromanx 1 21 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, xBromanx said: It is my opinion that the AAA should be greatly reduced in effectiveness, or even removed completely from Air RB. Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only Edited July 24, 2017 by Ossi_Petter1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... xBromanx 6,897 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ossi_Petter1 said: Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... StratosBear 315 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Kuban map AF B. There's always someone from allied team who flies in and cleans this auxiliary AF from AAs and occasionally land to do just that- wait for players who try to land there. Personally I dont mind as I love to strafe them but this I not what I see as better model if all AFs will become like this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Kaizy 2,348 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Couple of ideas: 1. I like the idea of airfield AAA being active when there is a plane landing there that needs to rearm and repair. He can sit there for two minutes and repair his badly damaged engine and it is imo completely fine that AAA is fully protecting him. He managed to get back from battle even with the damage, he managed to land the plane, he should be able to repair his plane. But as soon as he takes off, a cd should start running down after which the AAA should either stop working or its effect should be radically diminished so he can not use it to his advantage anymore. 2. Let´s even go a further step back and think about the fact of pilot flying back to the airfield. Most bombers are on suicidal missions and are basically free kills flying around once they drop their load. Only vast minimum of them manage to land, rearm and drop another load succesfully, because for this to occur you need very specific conditions (the best case scenario is paradoxically last enemy player being cornered above his airfield and thus map being clear of enemies and ground targets not being covered from air). For most fighters returning back to the airfield however, something has went wrong in most cases. They made a bad move and got damaged, they sprayed too much and ran out of ammo or their team simply failed, they managed to kill some enemies but ran out of ammo so they need to rearm and try to kill the rest. Either way, planes flying back to the airfield after the first clash are most likely the ones on the loosing sinde, while the winners are still above waiting to finish the job. They already managed to best enemy or their team mates and the odds are most likely hardly in their favour. In this case the last remaining player should have a good cover to repair and leave battle if he chooses to or repair/rearm and try to fight the odds somehow. But he should not have any kind of safe zone on the map where the swarm of enemies is not able to attack him and kill him without any problem. 3. I saw multiple games of 10 vs 1 where it was down to 4 or 3 vs 1 when I was leaving after my plane got one shooted 4 km above the enemy airfield in the clouds. Others got shot down before getting even close to start firing at the last enemy, AAA ripped them pretty fast. Some just got frustrated, landed and left even though they should have won the game 15 minutes ago. Whole enemy team was dead after 15 minutes of battle apart from one last plane which ran back to the airfield. And thanks to the invincible AAA, the game still was not over 40 minutes in. And what is even worse - the last remaining enemy did not get any score nor points during his flying in circles above airfield. It earn him absolutely nothing, he just wasted time and gain nothing. This is where Gaijin should step in and make it clear to the players that 30 minutes of flying above airfield will get them nothing. No points, no lions and if they instead just leave the game straight away and jump into the next one, they get a chance to potentially earn much more points and progress further in the same time. I would not go as far as to introduce some "passive-behaviour penalty" because there are types of planes that need time before they can be combat effective. At this point I would maybe ask GMs to check those passive behaviour reports more frequently because from my inside informations I should not even bother to report players for this because nobody checks it anyways unless somebody gets reported for it probably hundreds of times in very small time frame. Either way salty trolls, that got bested, can now probably camp the airfields as much as they want. So this is another solution if nothing major should be changed in the current gameplay experience - punish airfield campers more hardly. Because as far as I am concerned, I do not see any good or logical reason for punishing the winning side by giving the last salty enemy a safe zone so that he can viciously prolong the game just to **** the other side off. Edited July 24, 2017 by Kaizy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 59 minutes ago, xBromanx said: As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. I'm more worried about the gameplay than easy wins or SL or RP. The lurkers would probably distribute between every nation with some deviation. Which means that there would could be even less challenge for average and higher skilled players more 1v1s than teamwork. Although, The less the people the better the party as we say in Finland. All in all you may be more in the right in this. I just have a heavily cynical mind . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) The problem with the AAA is that EVERY gun at the airfield selects the same plane to shoot at, no matter how many enemy planes are over it. The AAA should randomly select one plane each that is over the airfield, and possibly switch to another target after a given (or random) amount of time (or some combination of proximity and angle of shot). Eight or nine AAA installations firing at the same plane, that plane is going down, especially with the airfield AAA accuracy. Accuracy could be reduced, LoS and range of angles could be reduced appropriately, Edited July 24, 2017 by Flying_Dodo 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... StratosBear 315 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 gaijin already has solution for losers don't they? A sky door in arcade mode. Should be only a matter of time when RB gets it too. Bombers could exit and maybe its possible to allow fighters use the same option. It won't help anyone to gitgud but neither would camping at enemy AF which you know will happen if AA gets reduced to auxiliary AF level. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... I_Have_No_Idea 7 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Your view is a good player's view. But under such conditions, the worse players will leave the game. Who will fight with you then? How big a pool of players would stay in the game? Probably the game would not have survived this lack of players. Sorry 4 my english. Is not verry well :-( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Fa11enPhoenix 1,405 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 5 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. This would be a valid point if and only if there weren't vast differences in the available trigger time between planes... there are fighters in game that get a sum total of 60 rounds to play with going up against other fighters that quite literally have thousands of rounds to play with... it is not a matter of efficiency or skill its a matter of balance. Rearming one way or another has to be an option... Same goes for fuel for much the same reason, there are many vehicles with maximum fuel reserves that are far lower than the length of the average match. You can say "GitGud" all you like, that doesn't change the facts that a 163 for example is a glider after about 7 minutes or that a Kikka almost qualifies as being unarmed. 1 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... PainGod85 8,050 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Fa11enPhoenix said: This would be a valid point if and only if there weren't vast differences in the available trigger time between planes... there are fighters in game that get a sum total of 60 rounds to play with going up against other fighters that quite literally have thousands of rounds to play with... it is not a matter of efficiency or skill its a matter of balance. Rearming one way or another has to be an option... Same goes for fuel for much the same reason, there are many vehicles with maximum fuel reserves that are far lower than the length of the average match. You can say "GitGud" all you like, that doesn't change the facts that a 163 for example is a glider after about 7 minutes or that a Kikka almost qualifies as being unarmed. Barring bombers, planes usually die with just a few well-placed hits as long as the guns they're being hit with are not Hispanos. If you have trouble scoring one kill out of 120 rounds of cannon ammunition, you're doing it wrong. Show me a prop that doesn't get at least 40 minutes of fuel. Also, additional fuel degrades your plane's performance, so it's a tradeoff. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Fa11enPhoenix 1,405 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, PainGod85 said: Barring bombers, planes usually die with just a few well-placed hits as long as the guns they're being hit with are not Hispanos. If you have trouble scoring one kill out of 120 rounds of cannon ammunition, you're doing it wrong. Show me a prop that doesn't get at least 40 minutes of fuel. Also, additional fuel degrades your plane's performance, so it's a tradeoff. 1) I didn't specifically mention the Kikka because it only get 150 rounds... I mentioned it specifically because it only gets 50. Having been flying the He-162 a lot recently I've concluded the 151's fire depleted marshmallows.... oddly though the same guns in the 152C3 work wonders... albeit with 4 rather than 2. In any case the Hispanos are far from the only useless cannon in game. I also hear the Russian 23mm's are semi useless but don't use them myself so can't really comment further on them. 2) Not every plane in game is a prop... many fully fueled jets get half or less then that. The 162 again is so slow that taking min fuel means that by the time you take off and get to then enemy you need to bug out and land... min fuel in some aircraft simply isn't a viable option. With that I'm out... I really REALLY cannot be bothered doing this dance again... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) You guys are WAY the xxxx off topic. Knock it off and get back to AAA issues, or this official-ish thread will be abandoned by staff. Edited July 24, 2017 by Flying_Dodo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... MH4UAstragon 9,581 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 The core of the problem lies in the burning need to completely obliterate the enemy team and that doing so is typically the most practical way to win. every. single. game. 1. Remove the ticket bleed for killing all planes, but increase ticket losses per kill so that killing the entire enemy team depletes the tickets without an added bleed. 2. Add a lot more bombing targets and make bombing out all of them able to win a match alone. Remove the bleed for nuking the airbase; instead have that be worth a good chunk of tickets and have the enemy no longer be able to land. De-couple the airbase from the other bomb targets, and reduce it's borderline ridiculous HP level. 3. Make light ground units worth 1/3 as many tickets as hardened ground units. 4. Reclassify all aircraft under one of the following classes with appropriate score bonuses (+100%) , score nerfs (only 10% of current rewards), and spawn locations. - Escort Fighter: start on airbase OR in some cases a 1000m airspawn to give the slow-climbers a chance. Get bonus score for killing enemy fighters and bomber hunters, reduced score for killing attackers, bombers, and ground targets. - Bomber Hunter: start at 4000m altitude over airbase. Get bonus score for killing enemy bombers and attackers, reduced score for killing anything else. Your job is solely to kill bombers, not to abuse an airspawn to rush climbing fighters. - Attacker/Light Bomber/Naval Bomber/Torpedo Bomber: Start at 1000m altitude 30km behind main airbase. Bonus for killing ground targets, reduced earnings for killing anything else. Using torpedoes grants a 5x bonus ontop of this given how risky torpedoing ships actually is. Your job is to kill ground units, not abuse an airspawn to rush fighters. - Strategic Bomber: Bonus for taking out marked bomb targets on the map, reduced earnings for everything else, even defending yourself from enemy Bomber Hunters. You're a projection of power over long range, not a gunship. - Frontline Bomber: uniquely gets the choice of being either an Attacker or a Strategic Bomber, with appropriate spawn points and earnings bonuses. Basically all Medium Bombers currently. *Any other multirole plane picks a role when they click "To Battle" and are queued as such, examples would be Me-410s with extra cannons, the Narwhal, practically any American/British Fighter past BR 3.7, etc* The ultimate point defeats the purpose of airbase camping on both sides of the equation. With much less dependence on team deathmatch to win every single game, airbase camping becomes meaningless for the camper and merely a greedy thing to do for the would-be vulture. If bombers and attackers do at least part of their respective jobs it's suddenly not necessary to hunt down the last coward. Lowering airbase HP means that the bombers on a team could prevent camping from happening without spoiling the match for everyone else. Then, with airbase camping rendered meaningless, the way to remove airbase vulching is actually quite simple. Buff the AAA. Sounds stupid, right? Merely remove the randomness and target fixation from the equation of how AAA works. Instead display a warning at 5km from any main airbase flak gun that airbase radar is tracking you, and if you get within 2km of any enemy airbase flak gun you're INSTANTLY DEAD with no RNG about it. Outside that range it would constantly but very slowly chip away at the durability of your plane from 2k-5k from it so people can't hang out near it either and pick off guys before they get in the lethal zone. Winning a battle would be broken into two sections. Air Superiority Achieved and Ground Battle Won. Attaining each would be a flat sum of RP & SL scaling up by tier. Want to win both? Then kill off at least half of the enemy team before they've done the same to you AND protect your side's bombers and attackers (who now w/o the twin bleeds have no reason at all to charge in like morons). 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... warrior412 14,723 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 I concur with @xBromanx. The airfield campers have had their hugbox time, now it's time to make skill relevant. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 20 hours ago, xBromanx said: As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. As far as I can remember the time before OP AAA there were ALWAYS some players lurking over runways and it was equal abuse of the game as using AAA's iron courtain now. I really don't know which one of these two is any better. 21 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. You look plainly and only from fighter's perspective. I main fighters too, but I realize there are other airplanes around. Basically, the main purpose of the bomber or attacker is to spend their entire load and go back to rearm. 21 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. Thanks for advice, I'll take another bottle of fuel to the cockpit of my Me-163 next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Xogo 991 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 21 hours ago, Ossi_Petter1 said: Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only Specifically for lurking, what if general AA strength was lowered, but it became stronger and more accurate the longer you spend within X range of the enemy airfield (Not necessarily specifically in flak range, could be the entire side of the map around/behind airfield, etc). This additional strength would not be reset when you leave the range in which it increases. That means you can make a quick strike run to kill someone who's trying to camp, or get out before the "warning shots" mince your coolant, but people who lurk around the airfield will still get taken out by it. 1 minute ago, khoreele said: You look plainly and only from fighter's perspective. I main fighters too, but I realize there are other airplanes around. Basically, the main purpose of the bomber or attacker is to spend their entire load and go back to rearm. That's where teamplay comes in. You can call back a fighter to cover you and help you kill the lurker (Since they tended to sit low, they'd be an easy kill), or you can float around and wait for a fighter to come back and kill them, and then land. It's not like your bomber's gonna run out of fuel. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Xogo said: Specifically for lurking, what if general AA strength was lowered, but it became stronger and more accurate the longer you spend within X range of the enemy airfield (Not necessarily specifically in flak range, could be the entire side of the map around/behind airfield, etc). This additional strength would not be reset when you leave the range in which it increases. That means you can make a quick strike run to kill someone who's trying to camp, or get out before the "warning shots" mince your coolant, but people who lurk around the airfield will still get taken out by it. Any bots are bad in PvP game. I'd rather suggest: First and most important, add permanent spotters on the ground around runway, with decent spotting range (5-6 km). Any airplane lurking around runway should be visible to friendlies from any distance. Let players kill lurkers instead of letting bot-controlled AAA do the job. BTW, AAA guns on the ground are usually unmanned when shooting. Leave AAA power and accuracy as is, but reduce firing range to 1500m and not a yard more. Strafing airplane standing on runway should be some risk. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, khoreele said: Any bots are bad in PvP game. I'd rather suggest: First and most important, add permanent spotters on the ground around runway, with decent spotting range (5-6 km). Any airplane lurking around runway should be visible to friendlies from any distance. Let players kill lurkers instead of letting bot-controlled AAA do the job. BTW, AAA guns on the ground are usually unmanned when shooting. Leave AAA power and accuracy as is, but reduce firing range to 1500m and not a yard more. Strafing airplane standing on runway should be some risk. Number 2 doesnt help at all. Now you die at 1500m away from the landed or runway-cicrcling plane instead of 4k. No difference there, except that bombers can bomb it with impunity at nearly any altitude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Flying_Dodo said: Number 2 doesnt help at all. Now you die at 1500m away from the landed or runway-cicrcling plane instead of 4k. No difference there, except that bombers can bomb it with impunity at nearly any altitude. I fully agree that current runway AAA is BS, but on the other hand, runway should be protected "somehow". Leaving it completely unprotected is equally unrealistic as current situation. And equally bad if you remember "old times". Firing range of 4 km creates "immunity bubble" of 8 km, while 1,5 km makes "bubble" of 3 km. Personally I believe 8 km vs 3 km makes a difference. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, khoreele said: I fully agree that current runway AAA is BS, but on the other hand, runway should be protected "somehow". Leaving it completely unprotected is equally unrealistic as current situation. And equally bad if you remember "old times". Firing range of 4 km creates "immunity bubble" of 8 km, while 1,5 km makes "bubble" of 3 km. Personally I believe 8 km vs 3 km makes a difference. Read my post further up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... MH4UAstragon 9,581 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 Funny how my post was completely ignored, even though it eliminated both camping and vulching simultaneously while also correcting a load of other problems that have plagued the game since day one: - uselessness of most bombers & attackers - certain bombers and attackers abusing airspawns to rush climbers (F-84s, Me-163, Ki-200, R2Y2 V1-3, Arado 234 C-3, A-36, A-20G, the list goes on and on) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... 6 yr PantherAl changed the title to Airfield AAA Discussion Thread Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 82 Share More sharing options... Followers 19
Senior Forum Moderator _Catweazle_63 9,834 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Hi, We see a great deal of threads pop up dealing with Airfield AAA. Now, for feedback to have any effect it's best these discussions centralised in one spot for which this pinned thread is created. This way we can make sure every player can relay their feedback and it can be traced easily by those that are in need of feedback on this issue. So please use this thread for all Airfield AAA Discussions - feedback - issues. The following discussion-threads have been redirected here: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/257885-the-amount-of-airfield-aaa-campers-is-getting-crazy33/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372472-sick-and-tired-of-aaa-and-ai/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372233-airfield-aaas-battle-rating/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/372040-a-common-sense-way-to-fix-airbase-aaa-no-flame-wars-or-rants-plz/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/371711-airfield-aaa-still/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/371416-ok-gaijin-wtf-have-you-done-to-the-aaa/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/367071-abuse-of-airfields-aaa/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/363126-air-rb-airfield-aaa-camping/https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/362311-broken-base-aa-not-like-you-think/ 1 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 So it is obvious that airfield is needed to - stop the lurking and killing of every single landing plane. No doubt this would happen soon after the removal of AAA. - Keep the fights somewhat consentrated (mostly just guessing this is the case) by making people work for their kills ( connected to lurking, hope you catch my logic.) Why it sucks atm: - obvious exploit of the AAA when the air superiority hasn't been achieved. The current answer is to focus on the mission objectives. Assuming your team has ground attack capable planes left, so there's a problem. How to win a match in a hurricane with 8 rifle calibre mg's? Let's say there are only hard targets left. And now is the time for the famous "if you don't circle his AF, hell climb above you and BnZ you to death." not nice. I want to play, not patrol over a dot in the fear of that dot raining lead on me 5 mins later. Maybe it is not an exploit, but an artificial way of trying to balance matches? I don't like it either way. Community solution proposals include nerfing, disabling when only one left, shrinking the fridge thrower bubble, not firing when there are friendlies airborne in the bubble... and so on. I play mostly low BR so there is a way to bleed enemy tickets with whatever you're flying in in the majority of cases. And with a small adjustment to my mentality I have grown to not care about AAA campers that much anymore. But it would be nice to see some adjustment to either AAA AI or mission structure to end the game sooner when the air I'm flying in is totally uncontested. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sereck 88 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Recently I've shared an idea that could work: 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBromanx 6,897 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) AAA, since it's current incarnation was implemented over a year ago, has become a huge issue for much of the playerbase. The issue stems from its exploitability. AAA is pretty much an iron curtain that almost always obliterates any enemy who enters its area of influence within several seconds of doing so. This has created a mentality within the general playerbase that, whenever they find themselves in trouble, they can simply sprint to the AAA for protection, rather than attempting to win a fight on their own. In other words, it protects players from their mistakes, which indirectly punishes players for flying well. This results in boring gameplay at the best, and incredibly frustrating gameplay at the worst. It is my opinion that the AAA should be greatly reduced in effectiveness, or even removed completely from Air RB. There is no reason why anyone should deserve to be protected AAA, as the majority of the time they would seek its protection would be because they made a mistake, or their plane suffers from an inherent weakness that should not be compensated for. "My plane is damaged and I need to repair." If you took damage from an enemy, it's because you or your team made a mistake, or because your enemy flew very well. There is no reason you should be protected from your mistakes, or your enemy should be denied their victory because of their success. "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. "My plane has very limited fuel or ammo. I can't help that I need to RTB." My P-47D can't out-turn a Spitfire. I don't get any compensation for that. If your plane has a weakness, then you need to learn to deal with it. Otherwise, I want AAA shooting at Spits whenever they start to outturn my P-47D. "Vultures will ruin the game by camping our airfield to pick us off when we RTB." If there are enemy players that avoid combat until you have to RTB, then that means you should have the initial advantage against their team. They will be outnumbered when combat starts, so your team should be capable of overcoming them. If you have to RTB despite having an advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes, or the enemy team flew very well. You should not be protected from your mistakes, and the enemy team should not be punished. "In real life, airfield had AAA to protect RTBing pilots, so War Thunder should to." IRL, if I let an enemy RTB, I would not have to worry about seeing that plane in the air again for several hours (at least). There would be no chance of me seeing that enemy until possibly my next mission. In War Thunder, if I let a player RTB, within a few minutes they can be back in the fight with an energy advantage (assuming I have to deal with other targets). If you want realism where AAA is concerned, leave it how it is (even if it is unrealistically powerful), and kick any player that lands back to the hangar. The outcome of any Air RB match should be determined by the players, not by some AI AAA. Please remove the AAA, or at least make it much less effective. Edited July 24, 2017 by xBromanx 1 21 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, xBromanx said: It is my opinion that the AAA should be greatly reduced in effectiveness, or even removed completely from Air RB. Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only Edited July 24, 2017 by Ossi_Petter1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBromanx 6,897 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ossi_Petter1 said: Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratosBear 315 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Kuban map AF B. There's always someone from allied team who flies in and cleans this auxiliary AF from AAs and occasionally land to do just that- wait for players who try to land there. Personally I dont mind as I love to strafe them but this I not what I see as better model if all AFs will become like this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy 2,348 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Couple of ideas: 1. I like the idea of airfield AAA being active when there is a plane landing there that needs to rearm and repair. He can sit there for two minutes and repair his badly damaged engine and it is imo completely fine that AAA is fully protecting him. He managed to get back from battle even with the damage, he managed to land the plane, he should be able to repair his plane. But as soon as he takes off, a cd should start running down after which the AAA should either stop working or its effect should be radically diminished so he can not use it to his advantage anymore. 2. Let´s even go a further step back and think about the fact of pilot flying back to the airfield. Most bombers are on suicidal missions and are basically free kills flying around once they drop their load. Only vast minimum of them manage to land, rearm and drop another load succesfully, because for this to occur you need very specific conditions (the best case scenario is paradoxically last enemy player being cornered above his airfield and thus map being clear of enemies and ground targets not being covered from air). For most fighters returning back to the airfield however, something has went wrong in most cases. They made a bad move and got damaged, they sprayed too much and ran out of ammo or their team simply failed, they managed to kill some enemies but ran out of ammo so they need to rearm and try to kill the rest. Either way, planes flying back to the airfield after the first clash are most likely the ones on the loosing sinde, while the winners are still above waiting to finish the job. They already managed to best enemy or their team mates and the odds are most likely hardly in their favour. In this case the last remaining player should have a good cover to repair and leave battle if he chooses to or repair/rearm and try to fight the odds somehow. But he should not have any kind of safe zone on the map where the swarm of enemies is not able to attack him and kill him without any problem. 3. I saw multiple games of 10 vs 1 where it was down to 4 or 3 vs 1 when I was leaving after my plane got one shooted 4 km above the enemy airfield in the clouds. Others got shot down before getting even close to start firing at the last enemy, AAA ripped them pretty fast. Some just got frustrated, landed and left even though they should have won the game 15 minutes ago. Whole enemy team was dead after 15 minutes of battle apart from one last plane which ran back to the airfield. And thanks to the invincible AAA, the game still was not over 40 minutes in. And what is even worse - the last remaining enemy did not get any score nor points during his flying in circles above airfield. It earn him absolutely nothing, he just wasted time and gain nothing. This is where Gaijin should step in and make it clear to the players that 30 minutes of flying above airfield will get them nothing. No points, no lions and if they instead just leave the game straight away and jump into the next one, they get a chance to potentially earn much more points and progress further in the same time. I would not go as far as to introduce some "passive-behaviour penalty" because there are types of planes that need time before they can be combat effective. At this point I would maybe ask GMs to check those passive behaviour reports more frequently because from my inside informations I should not even bother to report players for this because nobody checks it anyways unless somebody gets reported for it probably hundreds of times in very small time frame. Either way salty trolls, that got bested, can now probably camp the airfields as much as they want. So this is another solution if nothing major should be changed in the current gameplay experience - punish airfield campers more hardly. Because as far as I am concerned, I do not see any good or logical reason for punishing the winning side by giving the last salty enemy a safe zone so that he can viciously prolong the game just to **** the other side off. Edited July 24, 2017 by Kaizy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi_Petteri 128 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 59 minutes ago, xBromanx said: As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. I'm more worried about the gameplay than easy wins or SL or RP. The lurkers would probably distribute between every nation with some deviation. Which means that there would could be even less challenge for average and higher skilled players more 1v1s than teamwork. Although, The less the people the better the party as we say in Finland. All in all you may be more in the right in this. I just have a heavily cynical mind . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) The problem with the AAA is that EVERY gun at the airfield selects the same plane to shoot at, no matter how many enemy planes are over it. The AAA should randomly select one plane each that is over the airfield, and possibly switch to another target after a given (or random) amount of time (or some combination of proximity and angle of shot). Eight or nine AAA installations firing at the same plane, that plane is going down, especially with the airfield AAA accuracy. Accuracy could be reduced, LoS and range of angles could be reduced appropriately, Edited July 24, 2017 by Flying_Dodo 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratosBear 315 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 gaijin already has solution for losers don't they? A sky door in arcade mode. Should be only a matter of time when RB gets it too. Bombers could exit and maybe its possible to allow fighters use the same option. It won't help anyone to gitgud but neither would camping at enemy AF which you know will happen if AA gets reduced to auxiliary AF level. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Have_No_Idea 7 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 Your view is a good player's view. But under such conditions, the worse players will leave the game. Who will fight with you then? How big a pool of players would stay in the game? Probably the game would not have survived this lack of players. Sorry 4 my english. Is not verry well :-( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fa11enPhoenix 1,405 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 5 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. This would be a valid point if and only if there weren't vast differences in the available trigger time between planes... there are fighters in game that get a sum total of 60 rounds to play with going up against other fighters that quite literally have thousands of rounds to play with... it is not a matter of efficiency or skill its a matter of balance. Rearming one way or another has to be an option... Same goes for fuel for much the same reason, there are many vehicles with maximum fuel reserves that are far lower than the length of the average match. You can say "GitGud" all you like, that doesn't change the facts that a 163 for example is a glider after about 7 minutes or that a Kikka almost qualifies as being unarmed. 1 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainGod85 8,050 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Fa11enPhoenix said: This would be a valid point if and only if there weren't vast differences in the available trigger time between planes... there are fighters in game that get a sum total of 60 rounds to play with going up against other fighters that quite literally have thousands of rounds to play with... it is not a matter of efficiency or skill its a matter of balance. Rearming one way or another has to be an option... Same goes for fuel for much the same reason, there are many vehicles with maximum fuel reserves that are far lower than the length of the average match. You can say "GitGud" all you like, that doesn't change the facts that a 163 for example is a glider after about 7 minutes or that a Kikka almost qualifies as being unarmed. Barring bombers, planes usually die with just a few well-placed hits as long as the guns they're being hit with are not Hispanos. If you have trouble scoring one kill out of 120 rounds of cannon ammunition, you're doing it wrong. Show me a prop that doesn't get at least 40 minutes of fuel. Also, additional fuel degrades your plane's performance, so it's a tradeoff. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fa11enPhoenix 1,405 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 2 hours ago, PainGod85 said: Barring bombers, planes usually die with just a few well-placed hits as long as the guns they're being hit with are not Hispanos. If you have trouble scoring one kill out of 120 rounds of cannon ammunition, you're doing it wrong. Show me a prop that doesn't get at least 40 minutes of fuel. Also, additional fuel degrades your plane's performance, so it's a tradeoff. 1) I didn't specifically mention the Kikka because it only get 150 rounds... I mentioned it specifically because it only gets 50. Having been flying the He-162 a lot recently I've concluded the 151's fire depleted marshmallows.... oddly though the same guns in the 152C3 work wonders... albeit with 4 rather than 2. In any case the Hispanos are far from the only useless cannon in game. I also hear the Russian 23mm's are semi useless but don't use them myself so can't really comment further on them. 2) Not every plane in game is a prop... many fully fueled jets get half or less then that. The 162 again is so slow that taking min fuel means that by the time you take off and get to then enemy you need to bug out and land... min fuel in some aircraft simply isn't a viable option. With that I'm out... I really REALLY cannot be bothered doing this dance again... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) You guys are WAY the xxxx off topic. Knock it off and get back to AAA issues, or this official-ish thread will be abandoned by staff. Edited July 24, 2017 by Flying_Dodo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH4UAstragon 9,581 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 The core of the problem lies in the burning need to completely obliterate the enemy team and that doing so is typically the most practical way to win. every. single. game. 1. Remove the ticket bleed for killing all planes, but increase ticket losses per kill so that killing the entire enemy team depletes the tickets without an added bleed. 2. Add a lot more bombing targets and make bombing out all of them able to win a match alone. Remove the bleed for nuking the airbase; instead have that be worth a good chunk of tickets and have the enemy no longer be able to land. De-couple the airbase from the other bomb targets, and reduce it's borderline ridiculous HP level. 3. Make light ground units worth 1/3 as many tickets as hardened ground units. 4. Reclassify all aircraft under one of the following classes with appropriate score bonuses (+100%) , score nerfs (only 10% of current rewards), and spawn locations. - Escort Fighter: start on airbase OR in some cases a 1000m airspawn to give the slow-climbers a chance. Get bonus score for killing enemy fighters and bomber hunters, reduced score for killing attackers, bombers, and ground targets. - Bomber Hunter: start at 4000m altitude over airbase. Get bonus score for killing enemy bombers and attackers, reduced score for killing anything else. Your job is solely to kill bombers, not to abuse an airspawn to rush climbing fighters. - Attacker/Light Bomber/Naval Bomber/Torpedo Bomber: Start at 1000m altitude 30km behind main airbase. Bonus for killing ground targets, reduced earnings for killing anything else. Using torpedoes grants a 5x bonus ontop of this given how risky torpedoing ships actually is. Your job is to kill ground units, not abuse an airspawn to rush fighters. - Strategic Bomber: Bonus for taking out marked bomb targets on the map, reduced earnings for everything else, even defending yourself from enemy Bomber Hunters. You're a projection of power over long range, not a gunship. - Frontline Bomber: uniquely gets the choice of being either an Attacker or a Strategic Bomber, with appropriate spawn points and earnings bonuses. Basically all Medium Bombers currently. *Any other multirole plane picks a role when they click "To Battle" and are queued as such, examples would be Me-410s with extra cannons, the Narwhal, practically any American/British Fighter past BR 3.7, etc* The ultimate point defeats the purpose of airbase camping on both sides of the equation. With much less dependence on team deathmatch to win every single game, airbase camping becomes meaningless for the camper and merely a greedy thing to do for the would-be vulture. If bombers and attackers do at least part of their respective jobs it's suddenly not necessary to hunt down the last coward. Lowering airbase HP means that the bombers on a team could prevent camping from happening without spoiling the match for everyone else. Then, with airbase camping rendered meaningless, the way to remove airbase vulching is actually quite simple. Buff the AAA. Sounds stupid, right? Merely remove the randomness and target fixation from the equation of how AAA works. Instead display a warning at 5km from any main airbase flak gun that airbase radar is tracking you, and if you get within 2km of any enemy airbase flak gun you're INSTANTLY DEAD with no RNG about it. Outside that range it would constantly but very slowly chip away at the durability of your plane from 2k-5k from it so people can't hang out near it either and pick off guys before they get in the lethal zone. Winning a battle would be broken into two sections. Air Superiority Achieved and Ground Battle Won. Attaining each would be a flat sum of RP & SL scaling up by tier. Want to win both? Then kill off at least half of the enemy team before they've done the same to you AND protect your side's bombers and attackers (who now w/o the twin bleeds have no reason at all to charge in like morons). 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior412 14,723 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 I concur with @xBromanx. The airfield campers have had their hugbox time, now it's time to make skill relevant. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 20 hours ago, xBromanx said: As I said, if the enemy team is missing a portion of their players when combat begins because they're camping your airfield, then your team has the initial advantage. You should be able to overcome the first part of their team, and then overcome the second part that is lurking over your airfield. If you have to RTB despite having a numbers advantage, it's because you or your team made mistakes. You should not be protected from those mistakes. As far as I can remember the time before OP AAA there were ALWAYS some players lurking over runways and it was equal abuse of the game as using AAA's iron courtain now. I really don't know which one of these two is any better. 21 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I spent all my ammo and I need to rearm." You made the mistake of not utilizing your ammo efficiently enough. You should not be protected from your mistake. You look plainly and only from fighter's perspective. I main fighters too, but I realize there are other airplanes around. Basically, the main purpose of the bomber or attacker is to spend their entire load and go back to rearm. 21 hours ago, xBromanx said: "I ran out of fuel." Bring more fuel next time. You took the risk of better performance for less endurance. That risk failed. You shouldn't be protected because of your risky decision. Thanks for advice, I'll take another bottle of fuel to the cockpit of my Me-163 next time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xogo 991 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 21 hours ago, Ossi_Petter1 said: Looking a step further, you surely can see a significant amount of players abandoning gitngud and sneaking to enemy AF just to wait when the damaged and ammo depleted planes rtb. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the AAA at all but it is a necessity. EDIT: maybe a mechanic to prevent this lurking? then it could go away. DOUBLE EDIT: I'm addressing the removal only Specifically for lurking, what if general AA strength was lowered, but it became stronger and more accurate the longer you spend within X range of the enemy airfield (Not necessarily specifically in flak range, could be the entire side of the map around/behind airfield, etc). This additional strength would not be reset when you leave the range in which it increases. That means you can make a quick strike run to kill someone who's trying to camp, or get out before the "warning shots" mince your coolant, but people who lurk around the airfield will still get taken out by it. 1 minute ago, khoreele said: You look plainly and only from fighter's perspective. I main fighters too, but I realize there are other airplanes around. Basically, the main purpose of the bomber or attacker is to spend their entire load and go back to rearm. That's where teamplay comes in. You can call back a fighter to cover you and help you kill the lurker (Since they tended to sit low, they'd be an easy kill), or you can float around and wait for a fighter to come back and kill them, and then land. It's not like your bomber's gonna run out of fuel. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Xogo said: Specifically for lurking, what if general AA strength was lowered, but it became stronger and more accurate the longer you spend within X range of the enemy airfield (Not necessarily specifically in flak range, could be the entire side of the map around/behind airfield, etc). This additional strength would not be reset when you leave the range in which it increases. That means you can make a quick strike run to kill someone who's trying to camp, or get out before the "warning shots" mince your coolant, but people who lurk around the airfield will still get taken out by it. Any bots are bad in PvP game. I'd rather suggest: First and most important, add permanent spotters on the ground around runway, with decent spotting range (5-6 km). Any airplane lurking around runway should be visible to friendlies from any distance. Let players kill lurkers instead of letting bot-controlled AAA do the job. BTW, AAA guns on the ground are usually unmanned when shooting. Leave AAA power and accuracy as is, but reduce firing range to 1500m and not a yard more. Strafing airplane standing on runway should be some risk. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, khoreele said: Any bots are bad in PvP game. I'd rather suggest: First and most important, add permanent spotters on the ground around runway, with decent spotting range (5-6 km). Any airplane lurking around runway should be visible to friendlies from any distance. Let players kill lurkers instead of letting bot-controlled AAA do the job. BTW, AAA guns on the ground are usually unmanned when shooting. Leave AAA power and accuracy as is, but reduce firing range to 1500m and not a yard more. Strafing airplane standing on runway should be some risk. Number 2 doesnt help at all. Now you die at 1500m away from the landed or runway-cicrcling plane instead of 4k. No difference there, except that bombers can bomb it with impunity at nearly any altitude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoreele 460 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Flying_Dodo said: Number 2 doesnt help at all. Now you die at 1500m away from the landed or runway-cicrcling plane instead of 4k. No difference there, except that bombers can bomb it with impunity at nearly any altitude. I fully agree that current runway AAA is BS, but on the other hand, runway should be protected "somehow". Leaving it completely unprotected is equally unrealistic as current situation. And equally bad if you remember "old times". Firing range of 4 km creates "immunity bubble" of 8 km, while 1,5 km makes "bubble" of 3 km. Personally I believe 8 km vs 3 km makes a difference. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Dodo 950 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, khoreele said: I fully agree that current runway AAA is BS, but on the other hand, runway should be protected "somehow". Leaving it completely unprotected is equally unrealistic as current situation. And equally bad if you remember "old times". Firing range of 4 km creates "immunity bubble" of 8 km, while 1,5 km makes "bubble" of 3 km. Personally I believe 8 km vs 3 km makes a difference. Read my post further up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH4UAstragon 9,581 Report post Posted July 25, 2017 Funny how my post was completely ignored, even though it eliminated both camping and vulching simultaneously while also correcting a load of other problems that have plagued the game since day one: - uselessness of most bombers & attackers - certain bombers and attackers abusing airspawns to rush climbers (F-84s, Me-163, Ki-200, R2Y2 V1-3, Arado 234 C-3, A-36, A-20G, the list goes on and on) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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I merged some of the recent airfield AA threads into this one. Please keep airfield AA discussion here.
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