ground vehicles Type 89 IFV

[kikiri 614]

Here Id like to propose the Type 89 Infantry Fighting Vehicle as a top tier for the Japanese tech tree. This vehicle is built out of welded steel (RHA) and armed with a 35mm Oerlikon KDE cannon as its main weapon. while its secondary weapons would consist of two Type 79 SACLOS ATGM pods and a coaxial 7.62 lmg, it is also equipped with smoke dischargers on both sides of its turret. Although development of the vehicle started in 1980 and it was first produced in 1989, it still falls inside the technological limitations established by Gaijin. The technical info is the following:

 

Type 89 IFV

 

Crew: 3

Main weapon: 35mm Oerlikon KDE cannon

Secondary weapons: x2 Type 79 Jyu-MAT missile pods placed on turret (with a total of 6 missiles stored), Type 74 7.62mm coaxial machine gun

Armour: RHA welded steel and alluminium

Engine: 600hp at 2000rpm

Speed: 70km/h on road

 

 

Weaponry

 

Its main weapon as mentioned, would consist of a 35mm autocannon similar to those used on the Gepard and Type 87 SPAAGs, thus also being able to fire the same NATO ammunition such as FAPDS, HEI, among other. Although this gun would be mostly effective against light and medium armoured vehicles as well as against some low flying aricraft, it would be barely able to damage better armoured vehicles.

 

Main 35mm ammunition:

 -HVAP-T/ APDS: 110mm at 100m and 90mm pen at 1000m with a velocity of 1385m/s

-HEI: 112g of explosive charge with a velocity of 1175m/s

(these shells can also mixed in the same ammo magazine, each magazine has 17 rounds, since two of these are attached to the gun, it has a total of 34 rounds)

 

 

Its secondary weapons however, consists of two Type 79 Jyu-MAT SACLOS missile launchers installed on the turret while storing between 4 to 6 missiles in total, it could possibly store more missiles on its transport area if this is not being used. These missiles are the vehicle's main defence against armoured targets and its main 35mm cannon would be employed for light support, thus becoming into a multiporpouse vehicle.

 

Secondary weapons:

-Type 79 Jyu-MAT (153mm): wired-guided SACLOS with a speed of 200m/s, warheads for the missile are either shaped-charged (HEAT) or fragmentation-charged (HEAS), an estimated pen would be 700mm (with HEAT wargead).

-Type 74 7.62mm coaxial machine gun.

 

 

Armour

 

The armour of the Type 89 IFV is mostly built out of RHA welded steel, although very light armoured partly to improve its mobility.

 

According to a couple sources, a thin alluminium layer is placed somewhere on its hull to help increase its already light protection against APDS shells, however armour addons like this are attached only as an option.

 

 

Use

 

The Type 89 IFV was developed partly for transporting and to provide support with its arrange of firepower, with both its 35mm gun for light defence and its ATGM missile launchers making it ideal for combined arms operations alongside with other vehicles or tanks, its use being similar to other upgraded contemporary infantry fighting vehicles and APC's from other nations.

 

The pros of this vehicle would be its mobility, its 35mm main gun as a light support weapon and especially its two ATGM SACLOS missile launchers placed on its turret to combat armoured vehicles. Its cons however, would be the very light protection all around the vehicle, its longer size and much higher profile compared to other ATGM carriers.

 

This could be placed as a top tier vehicle at the light tank research line of the Japnese tech tree.

 

 

Some images:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Sources:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Type_89_IFV

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Japan/Type-89_IFV.php

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=683

http://www.military-today.com/apc/type_89_ifv.htm

http://historywarsweapons.com/type-89-ifv/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_GDF

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2587.html

http://www.wk2ammo.com/archive/index.php/t-1996.html

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by kikiri
Prefix.

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[Mo_guy96 245]

I was just talking about this vehicle yesterday =p +1.

[WulfPack 1,693]

Sure down the road with the other nations receiving 3rd generation IFVs.

Edited July 21, 2017 by WulfPack

[Conraire 5,723]

Well, if they go into ERA times, they'll be pushing into the mid/late 80s. So I see this being a good counter part to the M3A2 Bradley CFV from 84, and the Russian BMD-2.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

12 minutes ago, Conraire said:

Well, if they go into ERA times, they'll be pushing into the mid/late 80s. So I see this being a good counter part to the M3A2 Bradley CFV from 84, and the Russian BMD-2.

You'd also have to add in the FV510 Warrior into this, preferably the ones with the add-on MILAN ATGM launcher.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

welp, this is the type 60 ATM (are these better ATGMs or the same?) with a gun off the Gepard/Type 87, and it's lightly armored and fast so there's certainly nothing NEW added.

 

it could conceivably rush to a strongpoint, fire its ATGMs, then flank and side shot. +1 from me.

[Kocyra 5,742]

Would be a good ATGM tank which japan badly needs. Plus it has a cannon for annoying things :P

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

+1 could roll along with Marder, Bradley, Warrior and BMP's

[WulfPack 1,693]

5 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

welp, this is the type 60 ATM (are these better ATGMs or the same?)

Better ones.

[Guest]

Very good proposals. A little past the limit but Japan needs an atgm SACLOS  

[seadogpirate@psn 888]

this  will make a good light tank in top ranks +1 

[Thug Shaker Actual 225]

Yes. But only with addition of German Marder, and US Bradley +1

[The_Doctor_084 1,583]

There's no year cut off anymore it currently fits Gaijin's criteria for being allowed into the game.  Just a question of it still being in use with the JGSDF.  Which would indicate how public the information on it is.

[kikiri 614]

11 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

welp, this is the type 60 ATM (are these better ATGMs or the same?) with a gun off the Gepard/Type 87, and it's lightly armored and fast so there's certainly nothing NEW added.

 

it could conceivably rush to a strongpoint, fire its ATGMs, then flank and side shot. +1 from me.

 

These Type 79 missiles would have a speed of around 200m/s, although not the fastest in game these would still be a great upgrade from the missiles the Type 60 has (wired-guided with a speed of 85m/s). Being SACLOS missiles, these wouldnt be controlled with the "wasd" keys either.

 

Although the 35mm KDE cannon would have a rate of fire of 500 rpm being twice than the Type 87 (which uses a KDA cannon), it would still be mostly effective against light targets and some not very well protected medium armoured vehicles, thus it might help against SPAAGs or other ATGM vehicles encountered at close range and so on. The 35mm gun is also able to fire APDS achieving around 90mm of pen at 1000m, so in terms of pen it would be similar to the ZSU-57 cannon.

 

As seen it does add a couple of new things, at least to the Japanese tech tree. 

[kikiri 614]

1 hour ago, RexLuporum said:

There's no year cut off anymore it currently fits Gaijin's criteria for being allowed into the game.  Just a question of it still being in use with the JGSDF.  Which would indicate how public the information on it is.

 

The Type 89 seems to be mostly public, however the specifics of the ATGM fiering system is apparently confidential as well as the possible armour modules that might be attached to the vehicle as upgrades. However none of this is relevant to warthunder since these are normally excluded from the game anyways.

Edited July 21, 2017 by kikiri

[WulfPack 1,693]

1 hour ago, kikiri said:

 

The Type 89 seems to be mostly public, however the specifics of the ATGM fiering system is apparently confidential as well as the possible armour modules that might be attached to the vehicle as upgrades. However none of this is relevant to warthunder since these are normally excluded from the game anyways.

Maybe @Mai_Waffentrager would be able to get armor values.

Edited July 21, 2017 by WulfPack

[EpicM4Tank 59]

This vehicle would be a great end of the line 8.0/8.3 light tank, and it would open the possibility for other vehicles similar, like the Bradley, to be introduced. Right now the light tank line the Japanese ground force tech tree ends with two tank destroyers which will likely be moved eventually, and this addition would make the light tank line more fleshed out when that happens.

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

I thought this thing had classified armour or NERA?

 

if not, then +1 from me.

 

as for an alternative ATGM platform, there is always the Type 73 with a Type 79.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

On 7/21/2017 at 5:27 PM, EpicM4Tank said:

This vehicle would be a great end of the line 8.0/8.3 light tank, and it would open the possibility for other vehicles similar, like the Bradley, to be introduced. Right now the light tank line the Japanese ground force tech tree ends with two tank destroyers which will likely be moved eventually, and this addition would make the light tank line more fleshed out when that happens.

 

is the M2 Bradley even applicable for WT currently? it has a TOW missile launcher so it works as an ATGM, but it has laminate armor.

fortunately its wiki article states its use of 7071 Aluminum alloy as the hull base..

 

4 hours ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

I thought this thing had classified armour or NERA?

 

if not, then +1 from me.

 

as for an alternative ATGM platform, there is always the Type 73 with a Type 79.

 

according to the Mitsubishi Type 89 IFV wiki page, "The vehicle is of relatively conventional layout with a welded steel hull". i'd cite it but all the wiki page's citations are in japanese (and autotraslate isn't working) or french.

 

if there's any composite armor, it'd most likely be the same/related aluminum alloy on the Type 87.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Admiral_Aruon

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

5 minutes ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

 

is the M2 Bradley even applicable for WT currently? it has a TOW missile launcher so it works as an ATGM, but it has laminate armor.

fortunately its wiki article states its use of 7071 Aluminum alloy as the hull base..

 

 

according to the Mitsubishi Type 89 IFV wiki page, "The vehicle is of relatively conventional layout with a welded steel hull". i'd cite it but all the wiki page's citations are in japanese (and autotraslate isn't working) or french.

 

if there's any composite armor, it'd most likely be the same/related aluminum alloy on the Type 87.

 

sounds like NERA

 

hmm....

 

not too keen.

[WulfPack 1,693]

9 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

is the M2 Bradley even applicable for WT currently? it has a TOW missile launcher so it works as an ATGM, but it has laminate armor.

fortunately its wiki article states its use of 7071 Aluminum alloy as the hull base..

If this site is correct, it's like the BMP-3, and uses a combination of steel and aluminum.

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/m2bradley.html#M2

Edited July 25, 2017 by WulfPack

[kikiri 614]

9 hours ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

 

sounds like NERA

 

hmm....

 

not too keen.

 

Not sure if its NERA, but most sources Ive found state it is built of welded RHA steel, with only a couple implying that it might have a thin alluminium layer on the front hull for further protection, however it isnt rlly specified. This info can be seen on the sources I posted on the OP, however Ill quote a couple:

 

"The hull was conventionally built in welded steel RHA". (tanks-encyclopedia)

"Armor protection is of steel". (militaryfactory)

"The Type 89 has relatively conventional layout with a welded steel hull on which additional armor can be fixed". (historywarweapons)

 

This latter source might give an idea of how it is, since it specifies that it could be upgraded with additional armour to increase protection, in which case the original RHA version of the vehicle without any armour upgrades could be added. Although some of the sources also shown on the OP state that the armour could have alluminium layers attached to its hull, this might be a reference to the possibility of upgrading/ attaching armour on the vehicle.

 

[WulfPack 1,693]

44 minutes ago, kikiri said:

 

Not sure if its NERA, but most sources Ive found state it is built of welded RHA steel, with only a couple implying that it might have a thin alluminium layer on the front hull for further protection, however it isnt rlly specified. This info can be seen on the sources I posted on the OP, however Ill quote a couple:

 

"The hull was conventionally built in welded steel RHA". (tanks-encyclopedia)

"Armor protection is of steel". (militaryfactory)

"The Type 89 has relatively conventional layout with a welded steel hull on which additional armor can be fixed". (historywarweapons)

 

This latter source might give an idea of how it is, since it specifies that it could be upgraded with additional armour to increase protection, in which case the original RHA version of the vehicle without any armour upgrades could be added. Although some of the sources also shown on the OP state that the armour could have alluminium layers attached to its hull, this might be a reference to the possibility of upgrading/ attaching armour on the vehicle.

 

Would have thought a layer of steel on-top of a layer aluminum. That or the Type 87s NERA set up.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

hey is there any kind of general info that is given away with the number that an aluminum alloy has? or is it just an arbitrary designation?

 

because the bradley uses 5083 aluminum and 7017 aluminum, (AFAIK the Type 89 doesn't have aluminum alloys, my bad) and the M551 uses 7039 aluminum, and the turret caps on the Type 87 use AMS 4050A.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Admiral_Aruon
mistakes were made...