tanks/vehicles Japanese test Tank - M24 ATM

[Lineins 220]

First of all, I am not English-speaking people so please understand that English is impaired.

Data of M24ATM is extremely few in Japan, but since Gaijin already has data of Type 64 ATM and M24 itself, I thought that M24 ATM could be implemented.

 

 

                                                                                                          from: PANZER 1991 February

 

 

HISTORY

 

In the 1960 's Japan developed Type 64 anti - tank guided missile. This missile is implemented in this game in the form of Type 60 ATM.

But this was a design to operate with a jeep.

 

JSDF was concerned that if you confronted this enemy tank with this jeep in case of a field fight it would suffer great damage.

So JSDF thought about developing a dedicated self-propelled gun.

JSDF's  Technical Research and Development Institute  (TRDI)  decided to remodel M24 and Type 60 SPRG's third prototype vehicle SS-4 in Showa 39~40 years (1964~1965).

 

In 1961, the JSDF began operating M41. 

As a result, M24, which was operating conventionally, was replaced by M41 step by step.

TRDI decided to use the remaining M24 for this experiment.

As in the 1960's M24 was an outdated tank and struggled against T-34-85 opponent in the Korean War.

However, the 75 mm cannon of the M24 was effective for soft targets other than tanks, and its 25 mm armor was sufficient to prevent bullets of machine guns , and the speed can be 55 km / h.

TRDI thought that M24 retains its own combat strength even after launching Type 64 anti - tank guided missile at 1500 m.

 

However, there was a problem that the operation cost of a dedicated vehicle separately takes, and the M24 etc. are too large for hiding.
There was also JSDF 's judgment that there is no need to self - propellive weapons of this degree.
In any case TRDI had to wait until the late 1980s to send out self-propelled vehicles for the next antitank missile.

 

                                                                                                                        SS-4 ATM

"In the Showa 39 - 40 years, a vehicle equipped with two ATMs using the body of SS 4 was prototyped. Currently this type of stuff has not been made, and since it is equipped with a jeep, it may have been judged that it is not necessary to make it self-propelled in this degree. In addition, ATM has been tested on M24 and TYPE 60 for a while."

 

 

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　Type 64 anti - tank guided missile.

 

 

SOURCE

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/64式対戦車誘導弾#cite_ref-3

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24軽戦車

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/M41軽戦車

・「 PANZER 1991 February 　陸上自衛隊の対戦車兵器7( Anti-tank weapons of the Ground Self Defense Force - Part 7   )」　 Author 　高橋　昇( Noboru Takahasi )　ARGONAUTS　 Company　P.108~109

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Lineins

[SAUBER_KH7 3,325]

Open for Discussion.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

well this is pretty cool. i knew that the Type 64 MAT missiles had been used on the japanese jeeps, but i'd never heard of the M24 being used as a testbed.

 

+1 for the M24 ATM. it'll work as the japanese BMP-1, and the placement of the missile boxes will allow for some ATGM from behind cover shenanigans.

 

FEBRUARY, 2018 EDIT: it should be a 6.3 or 6.7. the cannon is borderline useless at this point anyway and the missiles are the worst ingame. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Admiral_Aruon

[dctpbpenn@psn 720]

I support adding this as a premium. I think it's comparable to France's AMX-13 SS.11. +1

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,498]

YES

[CptPejelagarto 359]

It looks interesting!

a nice premium or event vehicle. 

 

+1

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

[_EQUAI_ 356]

Should be a premium 

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,498]

1 hour ago, _EQUAI_ said:

Should be in main tree

ya ik ))))))))))))

[Van_Darkholme69 500]

+1, ideally it would replace the piece of trash known as the Type 60 ATM.

[MaterialWharf3 454]

Well, the Japanese do need a rank V prem, so it could be weird but I guess a rank V 6.0-6.3 prem would be ok...?

[swpixy 1,220]

Definitely should not go too high in BR,given how terrible the missiles are and how few of them it has.

[Lineins 220]

In the first place, Type 64 ATM itself has poor performance compared to other countries' ATM.
I think that that makes it difficult to adjust this vehicle.

The current Type 60 ATM is unlikely to be useful even with BR 6.7, but it is not good to lower the BR of missile vehicles too much.

Considering that the AMX - 13 ATM is located at 6.7,  I think this vehicle will  be implemented as a premium vehicle between 6.0 and 6.3.

If 5.7, another user's opposition may be great...

 

Will APCR be added more than that? I think that is a problem.

I do not know if JSDF was equipped with APCR at M24 ...
But when implementing M24 with a high rank, I think that it is quite different between have an APCR or not.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Lineins

[Jarms 1,556]

The Japanese tree could definitely use more tanks. +1

Edited February 12, 2018 by Jarms

[Milocat 4,848]

Looks fun!  Just remember that the armor on the M24 isn't much better than an armored truck.  Certainly not at the tier this will be. 

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,498]

16 hours ago, Milocat said:

Looks fun!  Just remember that the armor on the M24 isn't much better than an armored truck.  Certainly not at the tier this will be. 

better resistance to spaa at high tier at long distance compared to the type-60 atm

[Schindibee 2,859]

I see it as a pendant to the existing AMX-13 SS.11 (atm one of my favourites), mostly with all its pros and cons, so certainly a viable suggestion!

 

+1!!!

 

Or to add more info:

- Scout

- 4x MCLOS ATGM's

- weak main canon for BR (if at 6.3-6.7)

- very nimble

- irrelevant armor

 

...that very much sounds AMX-13 SS.11, eh?  = )

[Tasty95215 2,099]

I'll support this!

 

Also, if this tank is added, then that means Gaijin will have to lower the Type 60 ATM's battle rating! Remember, currently the Type 60 ATM is sitting all the way up at 7.0. Having the Type 60 be higher than the M24 ATM would make no sense, considering the M24 is faster and has an actual cannon to use other than missiles. And the M24 ATM itself isn't really any better than the BR 6.7 AMX 13 SS.11, and is in fact worse in many cases (much weaker gun, much slower missile, slightly lower top speed). Though to be fair, the M24 has some advantages over the AMX 13 (better gun depression, much better reverse speed, less turret wobble).

 

So to sum things up, if the M24 ATM is added, it'll most likely go to, at most, BR 6.7 alongside the AMX 13 SS.11. And since the M24 ATM is better in almost every respect compared to the Type 60 ATM, the latter will most likely be moved down 0.3 BR below wherever the M24 ends up. Also, I seriously hope the M24 ATM would get APCR. Otherwise, it'd be stuck with 110mm of penetration at 6.3-6.7 BR, which wouldn't be very fun at all.

 

I'm not sure whether to have it premium or not though. While the premium AMX 13 SS.11 is its most direct comparison, Japan really is starved for tanks at the top of the tech tree. Although I guess the Type 89 and B78 IFV's coulld fit, and there's always the 105mm GSR too...

[PickleJarOfDeath 1,498]

On 3/25/2018 at 3:07 AM, Tasty95215 said:

I'll support this!

 

Also, if this tank is added, then that means Gaijin will have to lower the Type 60 ATM's battle rating! Remember, currently the Type 60 ATM is sitting all the way up at 7.0. Having the Type 60 be higher than the M24 ATM would make no sense, considering the M24 is faster and has an actual cannon to use other than missiles. And the M24 ATM itself isn't really any better than the BR 6.7 AMX 13 SS.11, and is in fact worse in many cases (much weaker gun, much slower missile, slightly lower top speed). Though to be fair, the M24 has some advantages over the AMX 13 (better gun depression, much better reverse speed, less turret wobble).

 

So to sum things up, if the M24 ATM is added, it'll most likely go to, at most, BR 6.7 alongside the AMX 13 SS.11. And since the M24 ATM is better in almost every respect compared to the Type 60 ATM, the latter will most likely be moved down 0.3 BR below wherever the M24 ends up. Also, I seriously hope the M24 ATM would get APCR. Otherwise, it'd be stuck with 110mm of penetration at 6.3-6.7 BR, which wouldn't be very fun at all.

 

I'm not sure whether to have it premium or not though. While the premium AMX 13 SS.11 is its most direct comparison, Japan really is starved for tanks at the top of the tech tree. Although I guess the Type 89 and B78 IFV's coulld fit, and there's always the 105mm GSR too...

How is the pen for the apcr?

[Tasty95215 2,099]

2 hours ago, PickleJarOfDeath said:

How is the pen for the apcr?

 

143mm of penetration at 10 meters, going by the War Thunder Wiki page on the 75mm gun the M24 used. Not sure if that's historically accurate though, IIRC some of the penetration values on American APCR is a bit wonky.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

bumping this. gaijin has stated that they're looking for more japanese ATGM carriers, and the M24 ATM would work fine.

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

2 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

bumping this. gaijin has stated that they're looking for more japanese ATGM carriers, and the M24 ATM would work fine.

I think they were talking about second generation atgms.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

3 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

I think they were talking about second generation atgms.

 

yeah true but a little bit of depth always helps, especially when you can't get any worse than the Type 60 ATM, and can get any easier of a model design than copy pasting the ATGM and its housing from the Type 60 ATM on to the turret of an M24.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

hey now that each nation has its own subforum this'll help keep this suggestion in sight!