tanks/vehicles Ps. 245-4 - Finnish T-34/85 with German 75mm Stuk 40/L 48

[Nuclear_Frog 363]

As far as enjoyable gameplay goes, the ultimate special premium would be a tank combining the German 75mm AT-gun with the T-34 chassis. Well i found out it was done IRL. Source material, including some pictures used here, comes from the book; Muikku Esa, Purhonen Jukka: Suomalaiset panssarivaunut 1918-1997 (1998), excellent jaegerplatoon.net website, anrdreaslarka.net and from Steven Zaloga.

 

"Due to shortage of suitable main gun ammunition in February of 1945 Finnish Army experimented in Valtion Tykkitehdas (State Artillery Factory) with installing of German 75 mm Psv.K/40 (7.5 cm StuK 40 L/48) main gun to turret of T-34/85."

 

"With suitable ammunition such a short supply 29th of September 1944 Finnish military approved plan of testing installing of German 75-mm Psv.K/40 (7.5 cm StuK 40 L/48) tank gun to turret of T-34/85 tank with a bushing system. This was experimented in February of 1945, but test results did not lead into any further actions other than re-equipping the particular tank (T-34/85 Ps. 245-4) with it its original gun."

 

But in the post-WW2 Finnish army, not too keen on experimental stuff, the project was dropped after the installations and not pursued. However this does not mean that it was a fiasco. The project was too much to pursue in larger scale without much benefits. The army knew they would have to modernize their tanks anyway, so this type of mixing of already existing material was not helping too much. The Finnish army was really not in to experimental projects. For example; there was a lot of Finnish experimental weapons, mainly hand guns etc. that where deemed as "unsuccessful" or "failure" even though they worked, but maybe had some flaws.

Besides, like we know there is many "unsuccessful" tanks and projects in the game, so this should not be a problem. 

 

As you can understand, any pic of this project would be very rare. We do have however pictures of the tank that was used with modified gun collar. I cant find any picture of the tank with the German gun, but since both the chassis and gun are well known for the devs it should not be a problem.

 

What should the BR be? etc.

 

In these picture is the tank; Ps. 245-4 that was used for the project, restored back to the original after that. But the different gun collar remained on it even after the project. "T-34/85 Ps. 245-4. Notice the gun collar, which is non-standard model."

 

 

 

 

I think the tank should have a Finnish post war skin with the markings, and some minor changes. Like in this picture:

 

 

 Text: Zaloga, Steven. Tanks of Hitler's Eastern Allies. 2013.

 

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANKS6.htm

http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps245004/ps245004.html

 

7.5 cm StuK 40 L/48:

Calibre:		75 mm x 495 R
Barrel length:		L/48
Rate of fire:		10 - 15 shots/minute
Elevation:		Stu 40G: -6 degrees / + 20 degrees
		PzKw IVJ: -8 degrees / + 20 degrees
Muzzle velocity:		440 - 920 m/sec
Magazine:		None
Max. range:		7,700 m
Optics:		Sfl. ZF. 1 (Stu 40G) / T.Z.F.5f (PzKw IVJ)
Country of origin:		Germany
Ammunition types:		HE 5750 g projectile 500 m/sec
		APCBC-HE-T 6800 g 750 m/s
		HEAT-T 4600 g 450 m/sec (rare) (*)
		APCR-T 4100 g 920 m/sec (very rare) (*)

 

T-34/85:

Weight:		32.0 tons
Length:		6.10 meters (about 7.5 meters with gun)
Width:		3.00 meters
Height:		2.60 meters
Max. Speed:		55 km/h on road
		25 km/h off road
Engine:		500hp V-2 12-cylinder diesel engine
Armour:		20 - 75 mm (*)
- Turret front		75 mm (*)
- Turret sides		75 mm
- Turret rear		52 mm
- Turret top		20 mm (rear) / 25 mm (front)
- Hull front		45 mm
- Hull sides		45 mm
- Hull top		20 mm
- Hull bottom		20 mm
Ground Clearance:		40.0 cm
Ground Pressure:		0.85 kg/square cm
Gradient:		35 degrees
Trench:		2.50 m
Fording:		1.3 m
Range:		250 km
Weapons:		85 mm ZiS-S-53 (L/51.5) tank gun (56 rounds)
		2 x 7.62 mm DT machinegun, coaxial and hull (1.827 rounds)
Crew:		5 men
Country of Origin:		Soviet Union
Production:		1943 - 1946, total number manufactured about 23,000 tanks. (**)

Edited May 15, 2020 by Nuclear_Frog

[CokeSpray 7,272]

Open for discussion.

[TheLastYouSee__@psn 281]

this could be a cool event vehicle. maybe something that can be done on a finish holiday or something a bit of a memey vehicle but none the less cool. in the german tree ofcourse.

[DasEvilchen 6]

i would say it schould be a rare Prem or a  event vehicle maybe for winther or summer event because we dont have any Finnish vehicles in the game 

[Nuclear_Frog 363]

This is the only "chance" to have a historical experimental t-34 with kwk 40 in the game.

 

The institution that made the installation of the gun was the official artillery factory of the nation. For example the KV-1B in the game was a German field installation.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Nuclear_Frog

[Milocat 4,848]

On 1/23/2018 at 8:30 AM, THE_EVILMAV said:

i would say it schould be a rare Prem or a  event vehicle maybe for winther or summer event because we dont have any Finnish vehicles in the game 

 

I know of one:  http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=KV-1B

 

As for this suggestion, I think this would be a good rare vehicle to add, so +1.

[NAM_Biohazard 114]

I would like to have this tank in the game.. but also support it to be a rare tank.

My choice would be to make it an event vehicle.

+1 from me

Edited January 30, 2018 by NAM_Biohazard
spelling

[Monguntiacum 74]

+1 As replacement for the lame copy&paste T34 Premium in german tree.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Monguntiacum

[Milocat 4,848]

6 hours ago, Monguntiacum said:

+1 As replacement for the lame copy&paste T34 Premium in german tree.

 

 

 

That's historically accurate though.  The Germans made entire panzer units out of captured T-34s. 

It's also not a copy-paste.  It has modifications to the turret/hull and a German cupola.

[Monguntiacum 74]

I know, but that "oh look France and US has some caputred Tigers, let us do a Premium Tiger for France and US" do a "arbitrariness", everything looks the same.

The T34 in german tree should also has Panzerschürzen, the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS modified the T34 with cupola, some small things and Schürzen.

[Delta_48 471]

+1 This is actually an interest suggestion.... gib

[Wolf_89 2,524]

Support this. But only if its a rare tank. Limited time to get it. Or a event vehicle.

[JEI2 5,766]

+1

[Valcour 1,141]

+1  Event vehicle.

 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

Absolutely yes! This would make a great event or premium vehicle (I personally lean more towards premium, but eh, that's just my opinion). I could also see it fitting nicely into a 5.3 or 5.7 BR. You have my support! +1

[gennaroita 113]

i am in LOVE +1(000000000000) 

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

+1 should go into the Swedish TT

[Kasukaru 2,164]

+1 for Swedish + tech tree.

[Milocat 4,848]

I will continue to support this vehicle, but I also think that it should now be in the Swedish tree, not the German tree as I previously said.

[Wolf_89 2,524]

With the addition of the Swedish TT. I would rather see this as a Event vehicle in the Swedish TT.

Also hoping that all other Finnish vehicles will be moved to the Swedish/Nordic Tree.

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

Would like to see it in Sweden's tree. +1

[Solarmod 1,203]

Yes but for Sweden, not Germany. And as a premium probably, or even a squadron vehicle, perhaps.

[Nuclear_Frog 363]

Ok, so i also found the project mentioned in Zaloga´s book: "Tanks of Hitler's Eastern Allies. 2013."

 

If someone could find or scan the piece of text from the book by Esa Muikku and Jukka Purjonen: "Suomalaiset panssarivaunut 1918-1997"  "The Finnish armoured vehicles 1918-1997" (The book has both Finnish and English translations included) about this project. It talks about the shooting trials also.   

Edited May 15, 2020 by Nuclear_Frog

[Panssarikolonna 1,086]

+1 for this suggestion and it should be like SUMMER or WINTER event top prize.

[финский 1,710]

+1 Swedish tree, preferably squadron. But please not event, so many good vehicles are behind ludicrous 100€+ paywalls.

Edited March 7, 2021 by JamesJLahey