ground vehicles Renault VBC-90

[Alphanoodle 526]

I'd like to suggest the VBC-90, a French armoured car from 1981 with a high pressure 90mm gun. Although it only saw 34 models produced, it was used within the French Gendarmerie and would make a great addition to the French tier 5 tree.

 

Images:

Spoiler

 

Short history:

Spoiler

In 1979 Renault started developing a 6x6 wheeled combat vehicle for reconnaissance tasks with a high pressure 90mm gun. The design was first presented at the Satory Exhibition of Military Equipment the same year and the first production model was produced in September of 1981. Although the design was promising and innovative, the French Army didn't need a vehicle like this at the time and even on the export market it wasn't very popular, therefore the vehicle was never produced on a large scale. The French Gendarmerie was one of the few interested in the vehicle and ordered 28 to be built which were delivered in 1983. An additional 6 were delivered to Oman between 1984-85. A total of 34 models were built and the VBC-90 is no longer marketed.

 

Specifications:

Main armament:

90mm Giat Industries F1 cannon (sometimes also referred to as 90mm DEFA D-921F1) with a 35° oblique wedge breech block, a hydro-pneumatic recoil system, a thermal sleeve and a muzzle brake

Ammunition storage: 45 rounds total / 16 rounds stored in turret bustle, 4 in turret basket and 25 in the hull

Traverse: 360° / full rotation in 20 seconds (about as fast as a T-34/85 at roughly 18°/s)

Elevation and depression: -8 / +15°

Stabilization: None

Fire control system: SOPTAC 11

Rangefinder: CI LAS TCV 107 laser rangefinder

Turret: TS-90

 

Ammunition:

 

 

Also found these here:

Spoiler

 

Secondary armament:

1x 7.62mm AAT-NF1 coaxial machine gun

• 7.62x51mm NATO
• 1000 rounds of ammo total / loaded with boxes of 200 rounds each
• 900 RPM rate of fire
• 830 m/s muzzle velocity

4x 80mm smoke dischargers on the turret back / 2 on each side

An additional AAT-NF-1 or 12.7mm M2HB can be mounted on the turret roof as AA-MG

 

Propulsion and mobility:

Top speed: 92 km/h (57 mph)

Power to weight ratio: 16.3 HP/t

Engine: Renault MIDS 06.20.45 6-cylinder turbo diesel / 220 HP at 2200 RPM

Empty weight: ~12 250 kg (~27 007 lbs)

Combat weight: ~ 13 500 kg (~29 762 lbs)

Transmission: 5 gears forward / 1 in reverse

Wall: 0.5 m

Trench: 1 m

Gradient: 50%

Slope: 30%

Fording: 1.2 m

Range: 1000 km on road

 

Armour protection and survivability:

Crew: 3

• Driver in the left side of the hull
• Commander in the left side of the turret / behind the driver
• Gunner in the right side of the turret

 

Armour protection consists purely out of steel, no composite- or explosive-reactive armour

• Front: 13mm
• Everywhere else 6-8mm

 

There's a VBC-90 at the Saumur tank museum so getting exact armour values should be easy for Gaijin.

 

Dimensions:

Length: 5.63 m (hull), 8.09 m (gun forward) 

Width: 2.5 m

Height: 2.55 m

 

 

So what do you think about this armoured car? Leave your thoughts down below and vote on the poll! Sorry for any minor grammar mistakes, my first language is german :3

 

 

Sources:

http://www.military-today.com/artillery/vbc90.htm

https://www.armyrecognition.com/french_army_france_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_uk/vbc-90_vbc_90_6x6_combat_vehicle_90mm_cannon_technical_data_sheet_specifications_intelligence_description_pictures_video.html

http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/CC01 - VBC-90.html

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/liste-chronologique/de-1945-a-1990?task=view&id=727

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/Renault_VBC-90.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBC-90

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA-52_machine_gun#Variants

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product935.html

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3558.html

 

For the ammo cards in the spoiler:

http://www.mecar.be/data/115685863890mmM630.pdf

http://www.mecar.be/data/115685863890mmM631.pdf

http://www.nexter-group.fr/nexter/Flipping_Book/Export_GB/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#103

http://www.nexter-group.fr/nexter/Flipping_Book/Export_GB/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#104

http://www.nexter-group.fr/nexter/Flipping_Book/Export_GB/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#105

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Alphanoodle

[Radom 4,245]

Open for discussion. 

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

hell yes +1. the french sure love their armored cars, and it's probably the only nation that could have its own entire AC line from reserve to 9.0. and i can only assume the F1 cannon has some good punching power with that APFSDS.

[IxiRip 182]

90mm amunition:

APFSDS:

Initial speed : 1300 m/s 

Practical range in a fight :

(idk I traduced spanish to french):1500m

Efficiency/penetration : penetrate NATO Medium Tank target at 2000m.

-

HEAT(-FS?) :

Weight of the shell : 8,95 kg

Initial speed : 1000 m/s

Practical range in a fight : 1000m

Max range: 3000m

Penetration : 320mm at all range

-

Training HEAT(-FS?) shell: We don't care

-

HE:

Weight of the shell : 10,42 kg

Initial speed : 750 m/s

Practical range in a fight: 800m

Max range: 4000m

Anti-personal effect range: 40m

-

Training HE shell: We don't care

-

Canister shell: We don't care

-

Smoke shell:

Weight of the shell : 10,54 kg

Initial speed: 750 m/s

Practical range in a fight: 800 m

Max range: 4000 m

Smoke range: 50 m

Duration of the smoke : 20-30s

 

Btw +1 for the AC and it is interesting since it has an autoloader if I remember right

Edited February 18, 2018 by IxiRip

[Alphanoodle 526]

Thanks for translating! I included the translated document in the OP.

 

1 hour ago, IxiRip said:

HEAT(-FS?) :

AFAIK it's just regular HEAT without fins.

 

1 hour ago, IxiRip said:

since it has an autoloader if I remember right

You probably mixed that up with some other French AC. The VBC-90 doesn't have an autoloader.

[Milocat 4,848]

This would be a great armored car to add.  +1.

[Valcour 1,141]

+1  

 

[Jan_Gustl_WT 1,746]

Oui +1. Italia have the Fiat AUBL that mean french should get this.

[OiseauDeMetal 0]

Yes, +1 a light tank like tgis in the game could be really great! :D

[Cedjoe 5,482]

+1

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

+++++++++++++++++1

 

Been waiting for the VAB series for AGES!!!

 

COME ON GAIJIN!!!! Let's do this!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CaID 8,992]

To correct the topic, the VBC-90 was armed with the CN90 F4 and not the CN90 F1 (D-921F1) it can be noticed by the little sleeve in the mid of the gun.

 

It's an important details because the F1 & F3 was low pressure gun that could only used HEFS and HEAT while the F4 is having much higher pressure, velocity and could use APSDFS rounds. The F1 couldn't use the APSDFS rounds.

 

CN90 F4

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3586.html

 

CN90 F1

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3587.html

 

 

On the side not, i believe i saw in satori an acticle about the TS90 saying it had a rotation of 40°/sec and elevation of 20°/sec. Its way better than the 18°. I will try to see if i could find it back. And if i recal, the OMG had a independent elevation And could get much higher

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by CaID

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

On 13/10/2020 at 15:58, CaID said:

To correct the topic, the VBC-90 was armed with the CN90 F4 and not the CN90 F1 (D-921F1) it can be noticed by the little sleeve in the mid of the gun.

 

It's an important details because the F1 & F3 was low pressure gun that could only used HEFS and HEAT while the F4 is having much higher pressure, velocity and could use APSDFS rounds. The F1 couldn't use the APSDFS rounds.

 

CN90 F4

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3586.html

 

CN90 F1

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3587.html

 

 

On the side not, i believe i saw in satori an acticle about the TS90 saying it had a rotation of 40°/sec and elevation of 20°/sec. Its way better than the 18°. I will try to see if i could find it back. And if i recal, the OMG had a independent elevation And could get much higher

 

 

It is most certainly an F4 in the VBC-90. I wanted to bring that up myself. The VBC-90 is well known to fire APFSDS, which the F3 on AMX-13-90 could fire, as well as F4.

 

Speaking of.. AMX-13-90 APFSDS when!??

 

https://www.militaryperiscope.com/weapons/artilleryguns/combat-vehicle-guns/90-mm-cn-90-f3

Quote

The F3 was developed to replace the 75-mm gun fitted in the Fives-Cail FL-10 turret mounted on the AMX-13 light tank. Compared to the CN-90-F1, which equips the AML-90 4 x 4 armored car and other light vehicles, the F3 has a longer barrel (it measures 50 calibers compared to 33 calibers), fires similar ammunition at higher velocities and can use the armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot (APFSDS) round. The F3 also fires fin-stabilized high-explosive, HE anti-tank (HEAT), canister...

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by LeGrandSarrazin
Fixed small link photo size

[CaID 8,992]

11 minutes ago, MaddDawg90 said:

 

It is most certainly an F4 in the VBC-90. I wanted to bring that up myself. The VBC-90 is well known to fire APFSDS, which the F3 on AMX-13-90 could fire, as well as F4.

 

Speaking of.. AMX-13-90 APFSDS when!??

 

https://www.militaryperiscope.com/weapons/artilleryguns/combat-vehicle-guns/90-mm-cn-90-f3

 

 

Do you happen to have the penetration for the APFSDF?

 

It's one of the missing data i had for the RPX 90 Mars F4.

 

It's apply as much to it as it do for the VBC 90

Edited October 14, 2020 by CaID

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

It's right there in the charts:

"300mm perforation at muzzle (single armor at 60deg slope)"

and

"APFSDS projectile has a muzzle velocity of 1300m/s (actually 1275m/s) , will penetrate 120mm of armour at an incidence of 60deg at 2000m and a triple target (10/25/60mm) at an incidence of 60deg at 2000m"

 

It's the same gun as on the VBC-90, or the Sagaie.

 

But they'll use their calculator anyways when it makes it into game. They just need the dimensions, which me and a couple other guys are working on together offsite.

Honestly, can't wait for the MARS F4 turret, and I know EXACTLY which vehicle I want it on!!!

Oh wait.. you already said RPX-90.. lol.. only thing I'm still looking for is reload rate..

 

I need this in my life!!

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by LeGrandSarrazin
Fixed photo size

[CaID 8,992]

9 minutes ago, MaddDawg90 said:

It's right there in the charts:

"300mm perforation at muzzle (single armor at 60deg slope)"

and

"APFSDS projectile has a muzzle velocity of 1300m/s (actually 1275m/s) , will penetrate 120mm of armour at an incidence of 60deg at 2000m and a triple target (10/25/60mm) at an incidence of 60deg at 2000m"

 

It's the same gun as on the VBC-90, or the Sagaie.

 

But they'll use their calculator anyways when it makes it into game. They just need the dimensions, which me and a couple other guys are working on together offsite.

Honestly, can't wait for the MARS F4 turret, and I know EXACTLY which vehicle I want it on!!!

Oh wait.. you already said RPX-90.. lol.. only thing I'm still looking for is reload rate..

 

I need this in my life!!

 

The reload was the weakness of this turret. The loader had to put the shells in the gun in very uncovinient space. That was why the mars F4 who was not at his first apearence, didn't really got serious interrest

 

300mm at pointblank, it sound just Okay but was hoping to have a bit more to make it superior to the HEAT against heavy target. But at least it will not just blow at the first tree or fence, i am the sort of player that can figure out where the enemy is behind a breakable wall or in the forest just by the tiny details of the smoke. So HEAT aren't much my friends there

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

2 minutes ago, CaID said:

The reload was the weakness of this turret. The loader had to put the shells in the gun in very uncovinient space. That was why the mars F4 who was not at his first apearence, didn't really got serious interrest

 

300mm at pointblank, it sound just Okay but was hoping to have a bit more to make it superior to the HEAT against heavy target. But at least it will not just blow at the first tree or fence, i am the sort of player that can figure out where the enemy is behind a breakable wall or in the forest just by the tiny details of the smoke. So HEAT aren't much my friends there

 

Well 300mm at 60deg, so not too shabby for such a small armoured car!

And yes, I read that you had to reload through a hatch in the turret roof at a funny angle to reload the autoloader in the MARS turret, but that's something that won't really be an issue in-game. Ergonomics, and such.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Smol AMX-10RC, could be nice at 7.3 or 7.7 

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

Just dropping here to say it has a stabilized version

Spoiler

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by nxdefiant001

[Tantor57 10,318]

TTB 190 can be fit to ERC 90 Sagaie 2 châssis, VBC 90 châssis and ERC 90 Sagaie châssis.

 

We potentially have possibility for 3 stabilized wheeled vehicles.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

48 minutes ago, Tantor57 said:

TTB 190 can be fit to ERC 90 Sagaie 2 châssis, VBC 90 châssis and ERC 90 Sagaie châssis.

 

We potentially have possibility for 3 stabilized wheeled vehicles.

And there's also the perfect premium/event equivalent, the Argentinian VAPE, which uses a slightly different TTB190, and was built by french companies 

 

 

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

Should have added the VBC MARS F4 last time

Spoiler

 

 

And the VBC KE.W.S. 90/46  (no info on turret though but different from the VBC Cockerill MK III)

Spoiler

 

 

 

And copy pasting TTB 190 turret from No-Camping's ERC 90 suggestion for Gaijin's convenience (assuming they look at the comments)

Spoiler

 

 

In the end we have

 

VBC 90

VBC 90 Mk III

VBC KEWS 90/46

VBC 90 TTB190

VBC MARS F4

VBC 81

Edited April 21, 2021 by nxdefiant001

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

Here's a third pic for the VBC KEWS:

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

I seem to have found the turret though @nxdefiant001:

Spoiler

 

https://archive.org/details/JanesArmouredFightingVehicleRetrofitSystems199394/page/n371/mode/2up

 

Btw I read somewhere, that KEnerga was later renamed Cockerill Mk.8, the gun now found on the LCTS 90 turret:

https://www.tanknet.org/index.php?/topic/25248-modern-towed-anti-tank-gun-post-ww2/

Hope that helps.

Edited April 22, 2021 by LeGrandSarrazin

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

@nxdefiant001 Whoops, nvm, I found the actual turret:

Spoiler

 

They look exactly the same though, so I wonder if Arrowpointe Corporation became AV Technology Corporation, or if they just got bought out at some point. They were both headquartered in Michigan, and very rarely do 2 companies such as that have businesses in the same state. So, I can believe it.

Here it is in Artem's archive, I just had my book open when I found it:

Spoiler

 

 

And here's the rest of the VBC90 page of Jane's A&A 91-92 your first pic came from:

Spoiler

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by LeGrandSarrazin