ground vehicles Leopard C2 MEXAS

[FaafVonFasslich 218]

Remember when the Leopard 1 was the king of high tier games? Simple times of steel armour and HEATFS penetrating everything. But those times are over right? The Leopard 1 is obsolete at top tier, there are better guns out there and definetly better armour. Or are they?

 

Let me present you the Leopard 1 C2 Mexas.

 

History: 

Canada purchased 127 Leopard 1 A3s in the late 70s from Germany. They were slightly modified and called Leopard 1 C1. In 2000 the Canadian army wanted to extend the lifetime of their old machines. They were fitted with lot´s of smaller upgrdes (that are not implimented in the game) such as thermal vision. But there was also a rather big upgrade: The MEXAS armour package and Leopard 1 A5 turrets. The MEXAS armour was developed by the german company IBD Deisenroth and first used in 1994. It consits of ceramics put on top of kevlar nets. 

 

Combat usage:

The C2 was used in Afghanistan. That´s all I can say... That´s more combat than most other tanks in WT have seen. You can stop reading this part now. That´s it.... seriously...

 

Differences to the Leopard 1 A1A1:

-Belgian FN MAG C6 MGs 

-Completely different Weapon stabilization systems, so maybe we will finally be able to fire while driving fast.

-Additional protection:

 

against kinetic: Turret: 550-600mm
                         Glacis: 250-300mm

against HEAT:   Turret: 800mm

 

Does it fit into war thunder?:

While the year of intruduction looks a bit too modern, it still is a Leopard 1. It has the protection and gun of the Abrams we currently have in game (better on the turret, worse on the hull). It is slower than the other Leopards, since it still uses the same engine as the other Leopards, but it has additional armour. It still has the 105mm rifled gun, with a wide range of Ammunition, so Gaijin can balance the Gun the way they want (steps would be something like Cent. Mk10/Leopard A1A1/M1 Abrams). I see no reason why it wouldn´t fit into the German tech tree. 

 

Tech stats (from military today):

Country of origin	Canada
Entered service	2000
Crew	4 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight	42.5 t
Length (gun forward)	9.5 m
Hull length	7.09 m
Width	3.37 m
Height	2.48 m
Armament
Main gun	105-mm rifled
Machine guns	2x 7.62-mm
Elevation range	- 9 to + 20 degrees
Traverse range	360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun	51 rounds
Machine guns	5 500 rounds
Mobility
Engine	MTU MB 838 Ca M500 diesel
Engine power	830 hp
Maximum road speed	65 km/h
Range	600 km
Maneuverability
Gradient	60%
Side slope	40%
Vertical step	1.15 m
Trench	3 m
Fording	2.25 m
Fording (with preparation)	4 m

 

Sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100613162257/http://www.ibd-deisenroth-engineering.de:80/mexas.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20130130113730/http://collinsj.tripod.com:80/protect.htm

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_c2.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEXAS

https://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Leopard_MBT

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by FaafVonFasslich

[Radom 4,245]

Open for discussion

 

tag/prefix added.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Radom

[CaID 8,992]

as a ex-driver of Leopard. i confirm that the Coax is a FN MAG. but we call it a C6 GPMG here. it's the same gun. we just name our small arms in service as C and a number. like right now the main assault rifle in used is the C7. our LMG is either the C6 which is using 7.62x51mm or the C9 which is using the 5.56x45mm (same as the C7). the C6 can fit a butterfly handgrip for when we mount it in the Coax. otherwise, it have the regular handgrip. also, the C6 and C9 are often mounted as AA gun on the top of the LAV-25 or the Leopard. but it's not exactly for the helicopter or the plane. it's more an additional fire support.

[Smutol 2,730]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. How about we go with order. Next should be Leo A3 or A5. I dont think  we should get C2 now since its upgrade of C1 ( equivalent of A3) while we dont have actual A3 upgrade in game yet. 

[CaID 8,992]

1 minute ago, Smutol said:

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. How about we go with order. Next should be Leo A3 or A5. I dont think  we should get C2 now since its upgrade of C1 ( equivalent of A3) while we dont have actual A3 upgrade in game yet. 

the C2 have nothing to do in the German tree. it's would be more fit for the British tree for me. the tank was canadian. but giving it to the British will allow every tank used in the commonwealth to be added to the British tree. it feel like there would be a lot of T72 from India and M1 from Australia. i think we do not need to have other thing than the challenger and chieftain in the British line.

[Nell_Lucifer 927]

Would be better suited for a commonwealth/ Allies tech tree. But sure +1

[swpixy 1,220]

19 minutes ago, CaID said:

the C2 have nothing to do in the German tree. it's would be more fit for the British tree for me. the tank was canadian. but giving it to the British will allow every tank used in the commonwealth to be added to the British tree. it feel like there would be a lot of T72 from India and M1 from Australia. i think we do not need to have other thing than the challenger and chieftain in the British line.

Gaijin disagrees.Look at the SuperSherman and the Magach-in both cases,not used by the countries that have them in the techtree,but since they made the original modification (SuperSherman) or the original parts (Magach) they get them anyway.

[CaID 8,992]

4 minutes ago, swpixy said:

Gaijin disagrees.Look at the SuperSherman and the Magach-in both cases,not used by the countries that have them in the techtree,but since they made the original modification (SuperSherman) or the original parts (Magach) they get them anyway.

the Megach was a variant of the M48 which was an american desing, Israel was strongly supported by USA on both Military, Economy.

the Supersherman was a french design. France was the first to used it and was in service in france before Israel. but france didn't used it long.

 

any other invalid argument?

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

13 minutes ago, swpixy said:

Gaijin disagrees.Look at the SuperSherman and the Magach-in both cases,not used by the countries that have them in the techtree,but since they made the original modification (SuperSherman) or the original parts (Magach) they get them anyway.

That's because there isn't either an Israeli tree or a tree that participated in an inter-governmental organisation with Israel (to my best of my knowledge) unlike Canada and Britain which both were and are part of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Time4Tea

[swpixy 1,220]

1 minute ago, CaID said:

the Megach was a variant of the M48 which was an american desing, Israel was strongly supported by USA on both Military, Economy.

the Supersherman was a french design. France was the first to used it and was in service in france before Israel. but france didn't used it long.

 

any other invalid argument?

And the Leopard C2 is a German design,bought by a foreign nation,then modified with further german tech (1A5 turret including EMES and everything else related to the 1A5,MEXAS).

 

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

1 hour ago, CaID said:

the C2 have nothing to do in the German tree. it's would be more fit for the British tree for me. the tank was canadian. but giving it to the British will allow every tank used in the commonwealth to be added to the British tree. it feel like there would be a lot of T72 from India and M1 from Australia. i think we do not need to have other thing than the challenger and chieftain in the British line.

Easy case:
+1 for German Tech-Tree. it would be a better alternative to the failed 1A6 project
German developed Tank (1A5),
German Ammo, (uses up to DM63)
German developed Add-on armour. (IBD Deisenroth Engineering located in Lohmar, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany)

it should be handled like the Magach

Edited March 27, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[CaID 8,992]

15 minutes ago, swpixy said:

And the Leopard C2 is a German design,bought by a foreign nation,then modified with further german tech (1A5 turret including EMES and everything else related to the 1A5,MEXAS).

 

canadian desing.

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

3 minutes ago, CaID said:

canadian desing.

its not... the canadians wanted more armour, WE (germany) designed and developed the the Addon Armour.... just like we did with AMAP

 

@FaafVonFasslich  gaijin could also introduce the regular 1A5 to the Techtree and make the MEXAS kit a researchable modification

Edited March 27, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[swpixy 1,220]

2 minutes ago, CaID said:

canadian desing.

Aha.

This is a Belgian Leopard 1A6BE-Belgian 1A5 with the very same addon package as the C2 (Minus the sideprotection),only this one was never accepted into service.

Guess where this package comes from (hint-its not Canada)

Same goes for almost every other part on that tank-german design.1A5 Turret,standard Leopard 1 hull with slight modifications to mount the MEXAS.

(Seriously,if this design was any more german it would run on Beer instead of Diesel...)

[CaID 8,992]

2 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

its not... the canadians wanted more armour, WE (germany) designed and developed the the Addon Armour....

Canada ordered that tank with the Canadian specification and Canadian design. Germany did indeed built the tank but with the Canadian upgraded.

 

17 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

+1 for German Tech-Tree. it would be a better alternative to the failed 1A6 project
German developed Tank (1A5),
German Ammo, (uses up to DM63)
German developed Add-on armour. (IBD Deisenroth Engineering located in Lohmar, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany)

it should be handled like the Magach

or Gaijin could introduce a regular 1A5 and make the MEXAS kit a researchable module

British ammo. the C2 use the L7A1 gun. we produce the British ammunition locally.

 

if it handle like the Megach, it also mean to put it in the premium side. which is not an option as the there is no premium tier 6.

[Smutol 2,730]

All this confusion clearly shows that it would be best to simply add A5 version into the game

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

i was about to suggest the C2 once befor, but asked CokeSpay befor i did so in which Techtree he would put it

Spoiler

i wasnt able to suggest it due to exams at that time

[TasteTheTea 3,203]

Why not put it where the Canadian player-base wants it? Do a vote!

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

25 minutes ago, CaID said:

British ammo. the C2 use the L7A1 gun. we produce the British ammunition locally.

 

if it handle like the Megach, it also mean to put it in the premium side. which is not an option as the there is no premium tier 6.

1. you prove that please
2. my Uncle working on the shipment of german 1A5 turrets to the canada when they replaced their 1A3 turrets
3. the German L7A3 was developed BECAUSE the L7A1 didnt allow the gun to depress more than -4° inside of the Leo Turret. The canadians are not that dumb to handicap their own tank
L7A3
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/leopard_c2.htm
https://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Leopard_MBT

Edited March 27, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

@swpixy yep 1A6B with Mexas-Turret

Edited March 27, 2018 by dotEXCEL

[FaafVonFasslich 218]

To everyone saying "add the A3/A4/A5 first": I never said that the other ones should not be impolemented or that the C2 should replace those. This post has NOTHING to do with those, other tank, other story. And since suggestions need a lot of time to get implemeted IF that is the case at all, I see no problem suggesting this. And I would be really surprised if Gaijin wasn´t already developing one of those 3 "base" versions.

 

To everyone saying it fits into the GB techtree: The M4A5 Ram is more british and that one is in the US tree. The Hull is German, the new turret is german, the MEXAS armour is german, the only british thing on that tank is the gun, but with that logic nearly every NATO tank should go into the GB tech tree and the later versions of the Abrams into the German tech tree.

 

37 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

 

@FaafVonFasslich  gaijin could also introduce the regular 1A5 to the Techtree and make the MEXAS kit a researchable modification

 

I don´t see any way to balance that. One has the armour of a Leo 1, the other one of an Abrams. Dropdown research yes, but not just as a modifcation ((as awesome as that would be :P)

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

Just now, FaafVonFasslich said:

To everyone saying "add the A3/A4/A5 first"

they have all been suggested already

Quote

I don´t see any way to balance that. One has the armour of a Leo 1, the other one of an Abrams. Dropdown research yes, but not just as a modifcation ((as awesome as that would be :P)

well, it was worth a try

[scavenjer 1,892]

1 hour ago, CaID said:

the C2 have nothing to do in the German tree. it's would be more fit for the British tree for me. the tank was canadian. but giving it to the British will allow every tank used in the commonwealth to be added to the British tree. it feel like there would be a lot of T72 from India and M1 from Australia. i think we do not need to have other thing than the challenger and chieftain in the British line.

So, what you're saying is that the best vehicle from every nation that was designed in that nation should be given to the UK because their tanks suck and their former colonies tend to use the better foreign tanks?

 

I guess this is how the brits feel..

:

Edited March 27, 2018 by scavenjer

[FaafVonFasslich 218]

added a little poll

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

if the brits need a better tank, they should go for this which is an actually british developed tank:
http://yorkshireairmuseum.org/exhibits/armoured-vehicles/vickers-chieftain-battle-tank/
 

+250hp on a chieftain

Edited March 27, 2018 by dotEXCEL