groundvehicles Different variants of the Tog II (when it’s added)

[super_cacti 1,071]

First of all, this is NOT  a topic about the Tog-II. That has already been made a long time ago.

Check it out here:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

I am here to talk about an pretty cool idea for the Tog II when/if it's added.

During it's development, the Tog II has had five different turret designs. From the very first wooden mockup to the final design.

So let's first show you all the different loadouts! I will have them sorted out between all the different Tog II variants.

 

Tog II Wooden mockup

Spoiler

'Option 1'

Spoiler

 

Turret:

1x 40mm Ordnance QF 2-pounder.

1x 76.2mm Ordnance QF 3-inch howitzer.

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

Hull:

1x 76.2mm Ordnance QF 3-inch howitzer.

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun next to the howitzer.

4x 7.92mm Besa machine guns in side sponsons.

'Option 2'

Spoiler

 

Turret:

1x 57mm Ordnance QF 6 pounder 7 cwt.

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

Hull:

1x 76.2mm Ordnance QF 3-inch howitzer.

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun next to the howitzer.

4x 7.92mm Besa machine guns in side sponsons.

 

Tog II

Spoiler

'Big gun turret'

Spoiler

 

Turret:

1x 40mm Ordnance QF 2-pounder.

1x 76.2mm QF 3-inch 20 cwt.

2x 7.92mm Besa machine gun. (Left and right of the cannons)

 

Hull:

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

Bonus video, with some amazing music.

Spoiler

 

 

365G.A style turret

Spoiler

Here is a picture of the Tog II with the 365G turret, this was an earlier unarmed variant of the 365G.A

Spoiler

 

There are only two differences between this and the A version:

-This G variant had a high angle AA machinegun, wich you can see left of the main gun hole. It has a large slot wich allowed the machinegun to aim higher and seperate from the main gun.

-The G.A version has a larger turret build around the mantlet of the earlier G variant.

Overall these two version are related to eachother, and considering the G variant was unarmed, I've merged it with the G.A variant.

 

 

Turret:

1x 76.2mm QF 3-inch 20 cwt.

 

Hull:

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

Tog II*

Spoiler

The final design (along with the new suspension)

Spoiler

 

Turret:

1x 76.2 Ordnance QF 17-pounder.

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

Hull:

1x 7.92mm Besa machine gun.

 

 

 

So here is the idea:

The Tog II went through three mayor stages, or three different variants if you will.

Tog II Wooden mockup

Tog II

Tog II*

 

Now the Wooden mockup and the standart Tog II use the same chassis. But as you can see, the wooden mockup variant is pretty much a big WW1 tank. Having HE only howitzers, and a single 40mm for anti tank roles.

The Tog II removes all of the WW1 gear, and replaces that with larger anti tank guns. But note! By removing the side machinegun sponsons, it now gives the Tog II that big open hatch on both sides that only has around 12.7mm of armour!

And the Tog II* is an overall improved Tog II. It has recieved an actual suspension and a big 17 pounder anti tank gun.

 

But you might already see a problem here, the wooden mockup and the Tog II have multible different loadouts, but they only have one name. There is only one Tog II, but it had two different turrets mounted on, see what I'm talking about?

Here is my solution: You know how the Bf-109 or the Kikka can change their current weapon loadout? The Bf-109 can swap it's engine mounted cannon, and the Kikka can add a additional cannon.

I say, do the same for these Tog II's. In case of the wooden mockup, make it start with the Option 1 when it's stock, and let you unlock the Option 2 as a rank III modification maybe. And the same goes for the Tog II: The 365G.A style turret as the beginning loadout, and the 'Big gun turret' as a rank III modification.

 

I see a pretty nice thing going here. We've got a scetchy wooden mockup tank, a derpy heavy tank with no suspension and at last a massive heavy tank that the community wants ingame. 

So how about this: The Tog II* as a regular techtree tank, The Tog II as premium and the Wooden mockup as a event vehicle 

 

So that's all! Give me your opinion in the poll above!

Again, please check out the original post about the Tog II above!

 

Anyways everyone, I hope you enjoyed this post. I made this because I want to see it ingame when we get the Tog II, but I also made it to show all of you what the Tog really looked liked in it's early days.

Have a nice day everyone! 

 

Sources:

Spoiler

I got all my information from the 'The Tanks of TOG' book and from the Tank Museum youtube and website.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tanks-TOG-designs-Development-Committee/dp/1974680371

http://tankmuseum.org/museum-online/vehicles/object-e1951-49

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by super_cacti
Updated the post tags.

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[igeticsu 3,400]

Why not just have 4 togs?

[super_cacti 1,071]

52 minutes ago, igeticsu said:

Why not just have 4 togs?

Because there was only one Tog build. There where No variant names between them. They where all made under the Same name.

 

Although, there was a difference between the Tog II and Tog II*

I’ll look that up when I have time.

Edited November 23, 2017 by super_cacti

[super_cacti 1,071]

Gave the post a update about the Tog II and Tog II*.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

I'm actually getting a book next month specifically about the history of the TOG series of tanks and their stats. It was released recently and I have it on good authority that a lot that was written on the TOGs previously was inaccurate.

[super_cacti 1,071]

5 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

I'm actually getting a book next month specifically about the history of the TOG series of tanks and their stats. It was released recently and I have it on good authority that a lot that was written on the TOGs previously was inaccurate.

https://www.amazon.com/Tanks-TOG-designs-Development-Committee/dp/1974680371

This book right? I was thinking of buying it myself

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

20 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

https://www.amazon.com/Tanks-TOG-designs-Development-Committee/dp/1974680371

This book right? I was thinking of buying it myself

Yeah, if you don't want to spend the money then just wait about a month and I can give you all the stats in it.

[super_cacti 1,071]

1 minute ago, Mercedes4321 said:

Yeah, if you don't want to spend the money then just wait about a month and I can give you all the stats in it.

No need, but thanks!

I'm planning on buying a bunch of books so I'll buy that with them all.

Edited November 23, 2017 by super_cacti

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

I wish Gaijin would implement a shifting BR system, would make many British tanks better as you would go up in BR once you unlock your APDS. Would also help with other tanks that historically could have used a shell but aren't given it for balance: M26s and M4A3 (105)s used in Korea received HEAT, T-34-85s and IS-2s post war got HEAT-FS, etc. 

 

Anyway, I don't think all these differing designs can be placed in 1 tank, so maybe find a way to differentiate them? Also, +1 for the second, third, and fourth TOG II designs as those actually appear to have been completed. 

[super_cacti 1,071]

2 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

I wish Gaijin would implement a shifting BR system, would make many British tanks better as you would go up in BR once you unlock your APDS. Would also help with other tanks that historically could have used a shell but aren't given it for balance: M26s and M4A3 (105)s used in Korea received HEAT, T-34-85s and IS-2s post war got HEAT-FS, etc. 

 

Anyway, I don't think all these differing designs can be placed in 1 tank, so maybe find a way to differentiate them? Also, +1 for the second, third, and fourth TOG II designs as those actually appear to have been completed. 

Well I've done what I could. I have divided the Tog II into two seperate Tog's now. The Tog II and Tog II*. The Tog II* being the upgraded model with an actualy suspension and the 17 pounder cannon.

But for the others they where all based on the early Tog II without suspension. And these different turrets where given no actual variant name. Just Tog II. So that leaves you with one tank that had three different turrets :/

[CVB_Zuikaku 469]

What about TOG 1?

 

[super_cacti 1,071]

Just now, Charaqat said:

What about TOG 1?

 

This post is about the Tog II, and besides, the Tog I would have just been loaded out with one type of loadout.

If I'm correct:

1x 40mm in the turret.

1x 75mm in the hull.

4x 40mm in side sponsons.

[seadogpirate@psn 888]

I want 4 tog 2 tanks. and they could be called tog 2 mk1, mk2, mk3, and mk4.

Edited December 4, 2017 by *seadogpirate

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

I got my hands on that book, and the sheer volume of information in it is astounding. I now have a huge list of all the armament configurations considered throughout the TOG's development life, for instance, and the different guns considered are surprising. Such as a 55 pounder. Here's an image of the whole list (its quality isn't very good, my phone's camera is pretty bad)

Spoiler

 

I can transcribe the whole list (its broken into three segments depending on where they would be placed on the TOG) if you guys want.

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Something I was just reading in the book, your first turret is actually two separate turrets. The first image has a 6 pounder, the second one has the armament you listed.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

1 hour ago, Mercedes4321 said:

I can transcribe the whole list (its broken into three segments depending on where they would be placed on the TOG) if you guys want.

 

Do it! 

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

Do it! 

 

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

 

Alright

Spoiler

Hull
-twin machine guns
-3" Howitzer
-3.7" Howitzer
-French 75mm (short)
-6 pdr.
-4.2"
-25 pdr.
-25 pdr. (reduced recoil)
-60 pdr. HV
-60 pdr. HV (shortened)
-18 pdr.
-75mm
-3" 20cwt. AA
-3.7" AA

 

Turret
-Single machine gun
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa in each of 2 turrets (tandem)
-3 1/2 pdr. Howitzer
-3" Howitzer coaxial 2 pdr. and Besa
-95mm Howitzer
-6 pdr. 'short'
-6 pdr. 'long HV'
-6 pdr. with twin machine guns
-6 pdr. with Janacek principle
-6 pdr with 3" Howitzer
-9 pdr.
-70mm 12 pdr.
-75mm 'long'
-76mm
-25 pdr.
-3" Tank Gun T12 'American Gun'
-OQF 3" AA 12 pdr.
-3" 20cwt. AA, coaxial 2 pdr. and Besa
-3" 20cwt. AA, coaxial Besa
-OQF 3.7" AA Monobloc 28 pdr., coaxial Besa
-OQF 3.7" AA Monobloc 28 pdr., coaxial Browning MG
-OQF 17 pdr. Mk.II, coaxial Besa
-OQF 17 pdr. Mk.II, coaxial twin Besa
-OQF 3.7" Monobloc in modified 17 pdr. Breech
-Improved 17 pdr.
-3" / 2.25" Littlejohn (3.5lb. core)
-3" Light Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-3" Heavy Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-4.25" Light Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-4.25" Heavy Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-3.45" 30 pdr.
-4" Naval
-6" Naval (coast defense gun)
-30 pdr. 3.7"
-30 pdr. HV
-OQF 4.5" AT 55 pdr. (various muzzle brakes)

 

Sponson
-Single 6 pdr. Army
-Single 6 pdr. Naval
-2 pdr. (180 deg. Traverse)
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa (180 deg. Coverage)
-2 Besa machine guns (180 deg. Coverage)
-2 Besa machine guns (100 deg. Coverage)
-Apertures for automatic weapons

 

 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

On 11/23/2017 at 2:46 PM, super_cacti said:

This post is about the Tog II, and besides, the Tog I would have just been loaded out with one type of loadout.

If I'm correct:

1x 40mm in the turret.

1x 75mm in the hull.

4x 40mm in side sponsons.

The TOG I had a few load outs considered apparently. All of them involved using the same 75mm howitzer as found on the French B1 heavy tank in the hull. Two turrets were considered, the A.12 turret from the Matilda or the B1 turret mounting a 2 pounder. There was also an assault tank variant of the TOG I considered with no turret at all, just the French 75mm howitzer in the front and some Besa machine guns in the sponsons.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Mercedes4321

[super_cacti 1,071]

On 25-12-2017 at 2:15 PM, Mercedes4321 said:

I got my hands on that book, and the sheer volume of information in it is astounding. I now have a huge list of all the armament configurations considered throughout the TOG's development life, for instance, and the different guns considered are surprising. Such as a 55 pounder. Here's an image of the whole list (its quality isn't very good, my phone's camera is pretty bad)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I can transcribe the whole list (its broken into three segments depending on where they would be placed on the TOG) if you guys want.

 

Yep I got the book weeks ago myself. I didn’t bother to update this post tho.

Edited December 26, 2017 by super_cacti

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

7 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

Yep I got the book weeks ago myself. I didn’t bother to update this post tho.

Why didn't you update it? You have a great source of info on all things TOG with which to work with.

[Jarms 1,558]

On 26/12/2017 at 12:50 AM, Mercedes4321 said:

Alright

  Reveal hidden contents

Hull
-twin machine guns
-3" Howitzer
-3.7" Howitzer
-French 75mm (short)
-6 pdr.
-4.2"
-25 pdr.
-25 pdr. (reduced recoil)
-60 pdr. HV
-60 pdr. HV (shortened)
-18 pdr.
-75mm
-3" 20cwt. AA
-3.7" AA

 

Turret
-Single machine gun
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa in each of 2 turrets (tandem)
-3 1/2 pdr. Howitzer
-3" Howitzer coaxial 2 pdr. and Besa
-95mm Howitzer
-6 pdr. 'short'
-6 pdr. 'long HV'
-6 pdr. with twin machine guns
-6 pdr. with Janacek principle
-6 pdr with 3" Howitzer
-9 pdr.
-70mm 12 pdr.
-75mm 'long'
-76mm
-25 pdr.
-3" Tank Gun T12 'American Gun'
-OQF 3" AA 12 pdr.
-3" 20cwt. AA, coaxial 2 pdr. and Besa
-3" 20cwt. AA, coaxial Besa
-OQF 3.7" AA Monobloc 28 pdr., coaxial Besa
-OQF 3.7" AA Monobloc 28 pdr., coaxial Browning MG
-OQF 17 pdr. Mk.II, coaxial Besa
-OQF 17 pdr. Mk.II, coaxial twin Besa
-OQF 3.7" Monobloc in modified 17 pdr. Breech
-Improved 17 pdr.
-3" / 2.25" Littlejohn (3.5lb. core)
-3" Light Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-3" Heavy Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-4.25" Light Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-4.25" Heavy Mahot gun 'recoiless'
-3.45" 30 pdr.
-4" Naval
-6" Naval (coast defense gun)
-30 pdr. 3.7"
-30 pdr. HV
-OQF 4.5" AT 55 pdr. (various muzzle brakes)

 

Sponson
-Single 6 pdr. Army
-Single 6 pdr. Naval
-2 pdr. (180 deg. Traverse)
-2 pdr. coaxial Besa (180 deg. Coverage)
-2 Besa machine guns (180 deg. Coverage)
-2 Besa machine guns (100 deg. Coverage)
-Apertures for automatic weapons

 

 

 

That’s quite a few TOG variants we could field.  Haha.

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

1 minute ago, Jarms said:

 

That’s quite a few TOG variants we could field.  Haha.

There's a massive set of tables at the back listing all of the different iterations and requirements the TOG went through (including plans for a TOG 3), including armament configurations, engine choices, turret choices, armour thickness, transmissions and track descriptions, crew number and other things. Its quite long and takes several pages to cover them all. Some don't even have turrets at all.

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

33 minutes ago, Mercedes4321 said:

There's a massive set of tables at the back listing all of the different iterations and requirements the TOG went through (including plans for a TOG 3), including armament configurations, engine choices, turret choices, armour thickness, transmissions and track descriptions, crew number and other things. Its quite long and takes several pages to cover them all. Some don't even have turrets at all.

 

So there could be like a TOG gun carrier similar to the Churchill GC? I WANT! Give me all the "Uniquely British" tanks 

[Mercedes4321 4,695]

Just now, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

 

So there could be like a TOG gun carrier similar to the Churchill GC? I WANT! Give me all the "Uniquely British" tanks 

An early design actually had two tandem turrets, which surprised me. I'll have to see if I can find the reference to it again.

 

Also, it appears that the production version of the TOG 2 was meant to use the OQF 3.7" 28 pounder at one point.