type 74 Separate models of Type 74

[aizenns 3,591]

*I already suggest model G, so I don't make poll about the BR.

 

In game, we have only one model of Type 74, but in other countries tree, MBTs are separated by its models.

So, I suggest that separate Type 74 to 3 or 4.

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Deference of Type 74 Tank Each models

 

Spoiler

 

Quote

Type 74 (Early lot)

• Paint: OD
• 105mm TKG
  • APDS-T L28A1
  • HESH Type 75 (license of M393)

Quote

Type 74 B

FSC modified replace APDS to APFSDS

• 105mm TKG
  • APFSDS M735
  • HESH Type 75 (M393)

Quote

Type 74 C

Change paint color

• Paint: Dark Green & Brown camouflage

Quote

Type 74 D

Equip Thermal Sleeve on 105mm gun

Quote

Type 74 E

FCS modified to replace HESH to HEATMP

• 105mm TKG
  • APFSDS M735 (Replace to Type 93 in 1993)
  • HEATMP Type 91

Quote

Type 74 F

Equip Type 92 Mine Roller

Quote

 

Type 74 G

Passive IR sensor
Side-skirt attachment (removed)
Truck detachment prevention ring on drive wheel
Smoke launcher interlock to laser-detector
Change gear ratio: Back speed is improved.

• 105mm TKG
  • APFSDS M735 (Replace to Type 93 in 1993)
  • HEATMP Type 91

Sorry, I already suggest this.

 

 

 

 

For game, it is difficult to add all one because its shape changed only 3 times. (D,F, and G)

I think in game we can separate as these for game.

 

• Type 74 (1984) : mod.B or C
• Type 74 (1991) : mod.E, with thermal sleeve
• Type 74 (1993) : mod.F, with mine roller
• Type 74 Kai (1993) : mod.G

or

• Type 74 (1984) : mod.B or C
• Type 74 (1993) : mod.E with thermal sleeve & Type 93 APFSDS
• Type 74 Kai (1993) : mod.G

or

• Type 74 : early lot

• Type 74 (1984) : mod.B or C
• Type 74 (1991) : mod.E, with thermal sleeve
• Type 74 (1993) : mod.F, with mine roller
• Type 74 Kai (1993) : mod.G

or

• Type 74 : early lot
• Type 74 (1984) : mod.B or C
• Type 74 (1993) : mod.E with thermal sleeve & Type 93 APFSDS
• Type 74 Kai (1993) : mod.G

 

Quote

 

EDIT

Type 74 tanks before 1993 it modified to equip Spall Liner.

IR sensor is detachable, so if add Type 74 (1974), it will be without IR sensor.

 

 

I think Type 74 (1974) is bit difficult to add in game. it does not have APFSDS, and it shape is same as Type 74 B/C.

Quote

Type 74 (1984 / mod.B or C)

 

Spoiler

photo from wikipedia, model C

• 105mm TKG
  • APDS L28A1
  • APFSDS M735
  • HESH Type 75 (M393)

 

Quote

Type 74 (1991 / mod.E)

with Thermal Sleeve

Spoiler

photo from wikipedia, model D or B

• 105mm TKG
  • APDS L28A1
  • APFSDS M735  (1993 have Type 93)
  • HEATMP Type 91

Quote

 

Type 74 (1993 / mod.F)

with Type 92 Mine Roller

Spoiler

photo from JGSDF 6th Division official homepage, model F

• 105mm TKG
  • APDS L28A1
  • APFSDS Type 93
  • HESH Type 75 (M393)
  • HEATMP Type 91

 

Quote

 

Type 74 (1993 / mod.G)

with Side Skirt, small IR sensor, change gear ratio and others

Spoiler

 

Photo from https://rikuzi-chousadan.com/soubihin/sensya/type74.html, model G

 

 

• 105mm TKG
  • APDS L28A1
  • APFSDS Type 93
  • HESH Type 75 (M393)
  • HEATMP Type 91

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Weapon

Type 74

sheet about 105mm TKG is missing, but at least Ballistic Computer(弾道計算機) is for only APDS-T and HEP-TJ (HESH)

Spoiler

Type 74 B

Spoiler

Type 74 E

Spoiler

Quote

Type 91 HEAT-MP

Spoiler

• Length: 957 mm
• Bore: 104.9 mm
• Mass: 21.1 kg

Quote

Type 93 APFSDS

Spoiler

 

 

• Length: 983 mm
• Core length: 485 mm
• Sabot bore: 104.9 mm
• Core bore: 21.6 mm
• Mass:  17.7 kg
• Core mass: 3.4 kg
• Propellant mass: 6.2 kg

 

 

Quote

Japan Defense Agency, Official Style Outline

防衛庁制式要綱

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (B)"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (C)"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (D)"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (E)"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (F)"

JDA "official style outline, Type 74 Tank (G)"

 

 

Quote

http://eaglet.skr.jp/MILITARY/74.htm

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/74式戦車#改修段階

古是三春,一戸崇雄, 2009 『ストライクアンドタクティカルマガジン2009年9月号別冊 戦後の日本戦車』

Strike and Tactical Magazine, September 2009 Separate Volume, "Post-War Japanese Tanks"

ASIN B002LG7978

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by aizenns

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Querulous1 3,276]

Yes please. Japan badly needs a series of steps to reach the highest Br tanks.

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

+1000

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

nice!

 

so i'm for the first or third suggestion. what the Type 74 has needed a separating into specific versions pretty much ever since its original set of nerfs that practically overnight had completely gimped what had previously been the single best top tier tank ingame.

how i see things is that there should be 4 or 5 tanks (reasoning below) to split the current 1 into, with their BRs ranging from 8.0 (former top tier) to 9.3 (top tier backup) with either 1 or 2 folders.

 

 

Type 74 Nana-Yon mod. 1974: the base model of Type 74, featuring its nickname and as shown in the OP, the original two choices of ammo of the L28A1 APDS and M393 HESH.

this would be at 8.0 BR as its only real advantage is the stabilizer, which can only do so much when the ammo is either a long range, high-penetration, low damage shell; or a low velocity, situationally low/high damage shell.

in other words, a tank that suits the mobility meta, but can't really contribute beyond being a support tank

 

Type 74B mod. 1983: the Type 74B to me is almost what we have ingame right now.

starts with APDS and HESH but can upgrade to the M735 APFSDS. it would either be 8.3 as it would have an ugly stock grind and be extremely strong once it had the M735, or 8.7 and have the M735 as a tier 2 or 3 upgrade. folder under the original Type 74.

 

Type 74E mod. 1991: the Type 74E technically is what we have ingame right now minus historical inaccuracies and the thermal sleeve from the Type 74D. (did it really lack the HESH shell?)

starts off with APDS. tier 2 research adds the HEAT-MP for better damage and flexibility. tier 4 adds M735 APFSDS. folder it under the Type 74B at 8.7 BR. does not have access to the Type 93 APFSDS.

 

Type 74F mod. 1993: the first top tier-capable tank at 9.0 BR, and the one that can equip every ammo in the Type 74 arsenal. serves as a bridge between gen 2 Type 74 A/B/C and gen 2.5 Type 74s.

starts with APDS and maybe HESH as a stock shell or tier 1 upgrade. tier 2 Type 91 HEAT-MP shell. tier 3 M735 APFSDS (since it was still 1993 i highly doubt all the M735 had been phased out yet), tier 4 Type 93 APFSDS.

 

Type 74 Kai mod. 1993: at 9.3 this would be the last of the japanese gen 2.5 tanks, and a good transition into the Type 90.

omits the now-completely useless APDS altogether and having M735 as the stock shell alongside the HESH,  HEAT-MP as tier 2 upgrade, and Type 93 APFSDS as tier 3 upgrade.

OR

starts with HEAT-MP stock and HESH stock or tier 1 upgrade, and Type 93 APFSDS a tier 2 upgrade, mirroring the Type 90 module research.

 

either way, +4 or +5 for the tanks worth adding.

[Tasty95215 2,099]

I support this, as historical accuracy and a more filled up Rank 5-6 lineup are good things to have (even though grinding with the L28A1 will be completely horrible.

 

Speaking of which, the STB-1 should probably get some changes done to it as well. As Japan never used the M456 HEAT-FS shell, it should be removed from the STB-1, and the tank should be placed at the same spot (foldered) as the original Type 74.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

1 hour ago, Tasty95215 said:

Speaking of which, the STB-1 should probably get some changes done to it as well. As Japan never used the M456 HEAT-FS shell...

 

really? well that explains my unasked question of why did japan seemingly only have 105mm HEAT-MP without an earlier HEAT-FS.

[aizenns 3,591]

4 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Speaking of which, the STB-1 should probably get some changes done to it as well. As Japan never used the M456 HEAT-FS shell, it should be removed from the STB-1, and the tank should be placed at the same spot (foldered) as the original Type 74.

I agree this.

 

4 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

Type 74E mod. 1991: the Type 74E technically is what we have ingame right now minus historical inaccuracies and the thermal sleeve from the Type 74D. (did it really lack the HESH shell?)

JGSDF cannot use HESH shell now because it cause Ricochets. Japanese Training grounds is too small for MBT, and they cause incident by its ricochet and HESH banned. (Training of APFSDS, they use "TPFSDS" or go to California, so it didn't cause incident yet.)

 

3 hours ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

really? well that explains my unasked question of why did japan seemingly only have 105mm HEAT-MP without an earlier HEAT-FS.

One of the weakest authorities, Japan Defense Agency needs to fight the most strongest one: Ministry of Finance.

Edited July 12, 2018 by aizenns

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

3 hours ago, aizenns said:

One of the weakest authorities, Japan Defense Agency needs to fight the most strongest one: Ministry of Finance.

 

heh. well that's one way to budget :P

[tnsy2000 10]

The questionnaire is strange
5. Type 74 E (1993) → 5. Type 74 F (1993)
6. Type 74 F (1993) → 6. Type 74 G (1993)
Is not it?
I did not vote because there was an error in the questionnaire

My ideal tree is
STB-1 APDS & HESH 7.0
hide (Type 74 APDS & HESH 7.0)
↓
Type 74B APDS & HESH & APFSDS 8.3
↓
Type 74E APDS & APFSDS & HEATFS 8.3
hide (Type 74G APDS & APFSDS & HEATFS 8.7)

[Tasty95215 2,099]

I don't actually have any experience in anything above Rank 3, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

 

My opinion on what battle rating the Type 74's different models should be depends on whether or not Gaijin fixes the reload rate and the turret armor of both the STB-1 and the Type 74, as seen in these bug reports:

 

 

While the turret armor buff wouldn't really matter for the newer model Type 74's, it would definitely make a difference for the early Type 74 and STB-1. The reload buff, assuming it gets the historical 4 second reload, would make a very big difference for all of the tanks.

[Admiral_Aruon 2,264]

On 16/07/2018 at 11:57, Tasty95215 said:

I don't actually have any experience in anything above Rank 3, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

 

My opinion on what battle rating the Type 74's different models should be depends on whether or not Gaijin fixes the reload rate and the turret armor of both the STB-1 and the Type 74, as seen in these bug reports:

 

While the turret armor buff wouldn't really matter for the newer model Type 74's, it would definitely make a difference for the early Type 74 and STB-1. The reload buff, assuming it gets the historical 4 second reload, would make a very big difference for all of the tanks.

 

i seriously doubt the STB or Type 74 will ever see a 4-second reload. aside from basically making the tanks impossible to balance due to having armor, mobility, AND a 105mm machine gun, such a fast reload rate would mean the loaders were being worked ragged, and that 4 seconds would be impossible to keep up.

[Tasty95215 2,099]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Aruon said:

 

i seriously doubt the STB or Type 74 will ever see a 4-second reload. aside from basically making the tanks impossible to balance due to having armor, mobility, AND a 105mm machine gun, such a fast reload rate would mean the loaders were being worked ragged, and that 4 seconds would be impossible to keep up.

 

The reload has just been patched into 9 rounds per minute. While that’s still longer than the historical rate of fire, it’s a lot better than it was before, so I think it’s safe to say that Gaijin’s done messing with the Type 74’s reload for now. So all that’s left to fix for the Type 74 is the turret armor, buggy stabilizer and the ammunition selection.

 

Speaking of which, the STB-1 was apparently left out of the reload change. Since it’s considered to be very good at 7.7 already (with some even calling it OP), Gaijin not changing the reload makes some sense. However, the STB-1 still doesn’t have its historical autoloader or the other fixes that the Type 74 also needs, so that’s also something to work towards.

[CaID 8,996]

i am in support to add the some other model of the Type 74 family. the japanese do not have much option in that rank. a few filler would make it more interesting.

[JuicyKuuuuki 486]

Did the Type 74 really fire the M456 HEAT-MP-T or M416 Smoke Shells? No one seem to even mentioned those in the comments above. Only Type 91 HEAT-MP-T. Yet the game STB-1 and type 74 is using M456 HEAT-MP-T rounds. I am confused.

[Tasty95215 2,099]

33 minutes ago, Madlyface955 said:

Did the Type 74 really fire the M456 HEAT-MP-T or M416 Smoke Shells? No one seem to even mentioned those in the comments above. Only Type 91 HEAT-MP-T. Yet the game STB-1 and type 74 is using M456 HEAT-MP-T rounds. I am confused.

 

There's some more discussion on this thread, but essentially while the Type 74 could probably use those shells - and probably was tested with them at some point - they were never officially issued the M456 due to budget issues. It's unknown whether or not they used the smoke round, though.

[JuicyKuuuuki 486]

So according to what I read up there, this is the order and correct modifications, right?

Type 74 MBT

 

Type 74 Mod. A (1974)

  1)Standard Original Equipment when First Introduced

       a) Active Night Vision

       b) L28A1 APDS-T

       c) M393 HEP-TJ

Type 74 Mod. B (1984)

·         Modify FCS (Fire Control System) for M735 APFSDS-T

·         L23A1 APDS-T

·         M393 HEP-TJ

Type 74 Mod. C (1984)

·         Change Paint OD to Dark Green & Brown

Type 74 Mod. D (1991)

·         Equipped Thermal Sleeves on 105mm cannon

Type 74 Mod. E (1991)

·         Modify FCS (Fire Control System) for Type 91 HEAT-MP

·         L23A1 APDS-T

·         M735 APFSDS-T

Type 74 Mod. F (1993)

·         Equipped Type 92 Mine Rollers

·         Type 93 APFSDS-T

·         Type 91 HEAT-MP

·         M393 HEP-TJ

·         L23A1 APDS-T

Type 74 Mod. G (or Kai) (1993)

·         Equipped Passive Night Vision

·         Interlocking Laser Detector with Smoke Grenades Discharges

·         Track Detachment Prevention Ring on Drive Sprockets

·         Side Skirts

·         Change gear ratio: Back speed is improved

·         Type 93 APFSDS-T

·         Type 91 HEAT-MP

·         M393 HEP-TJ

·         L23A1 APDS-T

[oRyx 28]

Yessss

[Sir_Lawrence42 1,040]

Basicly "every" tank addition to the japan. tree is after the latest Q&A pretty "important".

Japan in general lacks in high tier so it would be nice to have the tanks you listed in the *near* futur.

 

+1

Edited September 12, 2018 by Sir_Lawrence42

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.