Semovente da 75/18, M.40, M.41, and M.42, the First Italian StuGs

[Milocat 4,848]

Making a full suggestion out of this nice thread: 

(There are a lot of good pictures there). 

 

The Semovente da 75/18 was an Italian tank destroyer, self-propelled gun, assault gun, and artillery vehicle armed with a short-barreled 75mm cannon.  After observing the effectiveness of the German StuG III during the battle of France, Italian artillery Colonel Sergio Berlese suggested that Italy develop a similar vehicle using their own medium tanks as a base.  Originally built on the chassis of Fiat M13/40 tanks, and later using Fiat M14/41 and Carro Armato M15/42 chassis instead, the first Semovente da 75/18 was delivered only 13 months after the first M13/40 tank.  The vehicle used riveted armor, with the 50mm front plate consisting of two plates bolted together, although to increase protection crews commonly bolted on treads all over the front of their vehicle (add-on armor mod!).  It had a leaf spring suspension with forward-mounted transmission.  The cannon was a short-barreled Obice da 75/18 Mod. 34 cannon, originally designed as an infantry mountain howitzer, which fired at a low velocity of about 450m/s, making accurate long-range fire difficult.  44 rounds were carried, a low ammo count compared to similar vehicles, however, by removing the seats and stuffing in additional shells all throughout the cabin crews were known to carry over 100 shells in one vehicle!  A roof-mounted 8mm machine gun was usually equipped, though not found on all vehicles.  Even though the ballistics for the main gun were less than impressive, the ammunition was a different story.  The vehicle could fire 5.2kg HEAT shells (called "Effetto Pronto" in Italian) that could penetrate 80mm of armor at 500m.  During the North African campaign, this allowed these vehicles to reliably destroy British M3 Grant and M4 Sherman tanks frontally when the 47mm guns of Italian medium tanks proved ineffective.  Its thick frontal armor and low profile made it a hard vehicle to reliably target, and this combined with its firepower made it the most feared Italian vehicle in North Africa.  Eventually the vehicles were supplemented with similar SPGs with more powerful guns such as the Semovente da 75/34, 75/46, and 105/25, although the 75/18s continued to see service, with many ultimately being used by the Germans (who also constructed 55 additional vehicles). 

 

There are technically three variants of this vehicle, the Semovente da 75/18 M.40, M.41, and M.42, distinguished by the type of tank used as the chassis.  Therefore, we could have three models of this vehicle in the game!  I hope everyone else is as excited for the early Italian StuG as I am! 

 

Specifications: 

Height:  1.85m

Length:  4.92m

Width:  2.28m

Weight:  13.1 tons

engine: Fiat-SPA 8 T M40 V8 diesel 125 CV, 123 hp (M.40), Fiat-SPA 15 T M41 V8 diesel 145 CV, 143 hp (M.41), SPA 15TB M42 V8 petrol, 192 hp (M.42)

Max Speed: 33 kmh (21 mph)

Cannon: Obice da 75/18 Mod. 34 (44 rounds [officially]), (+22 and -12° of cannon elevation and depression, 40° horizontal traverse)

Secondary Armament: 1 roof-mounted 8mm Breda Mod. 38 machine gun (1,108 rounds)

Armor:  30mm (front hull), 50mm (mantlet and front superstructure), 25mm (sides and rear), 9-15mm (roof)

Crew:  3 (Driver, Gunner/Commander, Loader/Radio Operator)

Number Built:  262 (all variants)

 

Images: 

Spoiler

 

Sources: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_da_75/18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obice_da_75/18_modello_34

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/Semovente_da_75-18.php

https://www.quartermastersection.com/italian/afvs/757/SemoventeM41

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/2-Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M42(75-18)/Semovente-M42(75-18).htm

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/2-Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M42(75-18)/Data/Semovente-da75-18-M42.htm

http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/italy/spg/DA_75_18/Da-75_18-1.htm

http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/italy/spg/DA_75_18/Da-75_18-2.htm

Edited May 14, 2019 by Milocat

[Milocat 4,848]

This is a suggestion for a vehicle that has been discussed before but never formally suggested.  A very good and informative thread can be found here: 

 

The Semovente da 75/18 was created to provide Italian armored divisions with a similar vehicle to the StuG III, which had impressed the Italians with its performance in the French campaign.  The move was spearheaded by Italian artillery colonel Sergio Berlese, who designed the Obice da 75/18 modello 34 mountain artillery piece that would serve as the primary armament of the finished vehicle.  It was meant to only be an interim vehicle until the P40 tank could be produced in numbers, but due to delays in this program it was used extensively in the North African campaign in particular.  Such was the pressure to produce these self-propelled guns that the first prototype was delivered only 13 months after the first M13/40 tank it was based on.  In total, three separate medium tank chassis served as the basis for Semovente da 75/18 vehicles, resulting in three variants.  The Semovente M.40 da 75/18 was based on the Fiat-Ansaldo M13/40 medium tank, the Semovente M.41 da 75/18 on the fiat M14/41, and the Semovente M.42 da 75/18 on the Carro Armato M15/42; each version mounted a more powerful engine than the previous model. 

 

The vehicle had a short, boxy casemate made of riveted armor with a 50mm thick frontal plate, designed to provide a low profile but still give the crew enough space to work around the gun; additional armor was sometimes bolted to the casemate by its crews.  Because of the low profile the vehicle only had a crew of three, and could only officially carry a load of 44 rounds for the main gun (though there are reports of crews stuffing additional rounds into the fighting compartment to carry as many as 100 shells).  Armament consisted of a low-velocity Obice da 75/18 modello 34 75mm howitzer; its ability to fire HEAT shells (called "Effetto Pronto" by the Italians) made it an extremely effective anti-tank weapon, often more devastating than the high-velocity 47mm guns, and highly feared by Allied forces.  The particular HEAT shell for this weapon weighed 5.2 kg, and could penetrate 80mm of armor at 500 meters.  For additional protection, many vehicles carried a roof-mounted 8mm Breda machine gun as well. 

 

They were not without disadvantages; complaints included a cramped interior, low ammunition load, lower range compared to purpose-built self-propelled artillery, and, in the M.40 and M.41 models, underpowered engines.  Despite these flaws, in the North African campaign, the Semovente da 75/18 found success both in the tank destroyer and infantry support roles; in the former, its powerful shells coupled with a low silhouette that made it difficult to hit at range proved a lethal combination.  It is widely considered to be the most effective Italian armored vehicle of the campaign.  However, there were never enough of these vehicles to supplement the far less effective Italian medium tanks with 47mm guns, much less repel the Allied advance.  Eventually the vehicles were supplemented with similar SPGs with more powerful guns such as the Semovente da 75/34, 75/46, and 105/25, although the 75/18s continued to see service, with many ultimately being used by the Germans (who also constructed 55 additional vehicles). 

 

In War Thunder I believe that the Semovente da 75/18 models would be an excellent trio of low-tier Italian tank destroyers in the vein of the German StuG III A.  They would provide valuable fire support and could go toe-to-toe with most early Allied vehicles. 

 

Specifications:

Height 1.850 m

Length    4.915 m

Width    2.280 m

Weight    13.1 tons

Engine: Fiat-SPA 8T V8 diesel, 123 hp (M.40), Fiat-SPA 15T V8 diesel, 143 hp (M.41), Fiat-SPA 15TB V8 diesel, 192 hp (M.42)

Maximum Speed: 33km/h (road)

Cannon: Obice da 75/18 modello 34 (44 rounds), (40° horizontal traverse, -12°/22° vertical traverse)

Secondary Armament: One 8mm Breda M38 machine gun (1,108 rounds)

Armor: 50mm (hull), 50mm (casemate), 25mm (sides/rear), 14mm (roof)

Crew:  3 (Driver, Commander/Gunner, Loader/Radio Operator)

Number Built:  292 (30 M.40, 196 M.41, 66 M.42)

 

Images: 

Spoiler

Model displaying add-on armor and machine gun: 

Photos and drawings: 

Another example with add-on armor and machine gun: 

 

 

Sources: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_da_75%2F18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obice_da_75/18_modello_34

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/Semovente_da_75-18.php

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/2-Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M42(75-18)/Semovente-M42(75-18).htm

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/2-Italy/04-SPG/Semovente-M42(75-18)/Data/Semovente-da75-18-M42.htm

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Milocat

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,848]

I made this suggestion twice since it was deleted when I first tried.  I think the other one is better and I'd like to get this one deleted.  

 

Thanks.  

[onemax9000 1,242]

+1 gib

[BrentD15@psn 1,116]

Yes to all!

+1

[P8triot 3,894]

i vote yes as well

[Milocat 4,848]

Just going to reiterate my request that this thread be merged into this one:  

 

I'm quite embarrassed that we ended up with them both.  

[Milocat 4,848]

Well, we're getting the M41 model in the new update, so that'll be fun!  

 

I'd still like to see the M40 and M42 models of this TD as well in the future.  

[leroyonly 4,310]

Merged both threads previously mentioned into this one 

[Milocat 4,848]

9 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

Merged both threads previously mentioned into this one 

 

Thank you, Leroy.  

 

We have the Semovente M.41 da 75/18 in the game now, though I'm still holding out hope for the M.40 and M.42 models.  They'd be nearly identical to the one in the game, but the M.40 model has about 20 horsepower fewer for its engine than the M.41 and the M.42 has about 50 horsepower more than the M.41.  

 

I would expect the M.40 to be slightly slower than the M.41 and the M.42 to have a decent mobility increase, since the latter has a ~33% increase in engine power over the M.41.

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

1 minute ago, Milocat said:

 

Thank you, Leroy.  

 

We have the Semovente M.41 da 75/18 in the game now, though I'm still holding out hope for the M.40 and M.42 models.  They'd be nearly identical to the one in the game, but the M.40 model has about 20 horsepower fewer for its engine than the M.41 and the M.42 has about 50 horsepower more than the M.41.  

 

I would expect the M.40 to be slightly slower than the M.41 and the M.42 to have a decent mobility increase, since the latter has a ~33% increase in engine power over the M.41.

maybe they could rename the one in game m42 and give it the increase in engine power because of redundancy? or otherwise add one of those as a premium at tier 2

[Milocat 4,848]

4 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

maybe they could rename the one in game m42 and give it the increase in engine power because of redundancy? or otherwise add one of those as a premium at tier 2

 

That's a possibility, though I'd most like to have all three in a tab.  

 

Making one of the others a premium isn't a bad idea, but I'd still want the other two on the tech tree in that case.  

[N0REAVER 2]

Is this a bug or it's supposed to be like that? I never seen this on any vehicle (75/18 M41).

The machine gun aiming is totally offset:

a. against the main gun

b. against the center of the screen when machine gun is selected only.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

3 hours ago, noREAVER said:

Is this a bug or it's supposed to be like that? I never seen this on any vehicle (75/18 M41).

The machine gun aiming is totally offset:

a. against the main gun

b. against the center of the screen when machine gun is selected only.

yes, almost all Italian ww2 machine guns are still bugged.

[PrussianOwl 438]

Italian StuG. Sounds good to me, +1

[Solarmod 1,203]

+1 for more pasta power

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

This is an easy way to create better low tier lineups for Italy:

75/18 M40 can be slow but powerful 1.7(with 47/32 lowered to 1.3) and 75/18 M42 can be 2.3, because of its better mobility, compare to M41.

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

Would be nice extras to get the models not in game.

[Jarms 1,556]

We have the M41, right? It would be nice to see the others. It could be the same as the medium tanks, 2 tech tree and 1 premium.

[Milocat 4,848]

36 minutes ago, Jarms said:

We have the M41, right? It would be nice to see the others. It could be the same as the medium tanks, 2 tech tree and 1 premium.

 

That's correct, we currently have the M41 model.  And that's an interesting idea, I wouldn't mind one of this set being a premium.  

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

https://issuu.com/rivista.militare1/docs/gli-autoveicoli-vol._ii-tomo_1-testo  (p.345)

Would be interesting to have Breda mod.30 machine gun on 75/18 M40 as its unique feature.

[mc205v 786]

[RytisLTU1 2,585]

Why not +1

[leroyonly 4,310]

As the Semovente M 41 da 75/1 8 has been implemented previously,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.