tankseries List of all Japanese heavy tanks

[super_cacti 1,071]

Hey everyone, time for another tank series!

This time Japanese heavy tanks! 

 

Let's get started!

 

When it comes to the full Type /Number/ /something-something/ names, I've based these on information found in this post and also my own little bit of limited research into these vehicles.

But take them with a grain of salt, I might have made a mistake allong the way. If you also happen to have some info on the missing names I got here and there then be sure to let me know!

 

Experimental II

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Note: this is a picture could also be the Experimental I, sources regarding this vehicle are very scarce

 

This tank is very much like the Experimental I. The Experimental I was the first tank Japan build by themselfes, and the Experimental II was more or less a variant of the Experimental I.

The tank has some improvements in armour, top speed, horsepower and that sort of thing.

In the book "Forgotten tanks and guns by David Lister" it says this: 

Quote

Next came the Japanese tanks, starting with a heavy tank. The heavy tank Wards saw may have been the Experimental II with a main gun in both the turret and the hull, and a mini-turret at the rear housing a machine gun.

The Experimental II was armed with a 57mm gun or a 70mm gun in the main turret, and one 6.5mm machinegun in the other two auxiliary turrets.

But with the info given from the book, the Experimental II may have had an additional gun in the front auxiliary turret.

 

Specifications

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Length: 6.22 meters

Width: 2.45 meters

Height: 2.53 meters

Weight: 16.0 tons

Crew: 5 members (gunner, commander, driver, forward gunner, rear gunner)

Engine: 4 stroke V type 8 cylinder liquid-cooled gasoline engine with 150 horsepower

Max speed: 22 km/h

Armament: 1x Type 90 57mm tank gun, or Type 94 70mm tank gun in the main turret

                    1x Type 91 6.5mm machine gun (Or maybe a cannon of some type) in the front turret

                    1x Type 91 6.5mm machine gun in the rear turret

Armor thickness: 15mm front - 10mm side - 8mm rear

 

 

Type 91

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This is an 18-ton, three turret heavy tank project. This was a futher development of the Experimental II. It has a BMW IV Inline 6-cylinder gasoline engine, with seventeen road wheels on each side, which were supported by a "two-stage leaf spring suspension system". The Type 91 had a Type 90 57 mm cannon as its main armament. It's two smaller auxiliary turrets were each armed with a 6.5 mm machine gun. The tank had a maximum armor plate thickness of 17 mm.

 

This is pretty much the Type 95's little brother, wich we already have ingame. 

You can see that the Japanese were very fond of the idea of having multible turrets on their heavy tanks. This trend will continue on their other heavy tanks aswell.

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 6.03 meters

Width: 2.40 meters

Height: 2.78 meters

Weight: 18.0 tons

Crew: 5 members (commander, driver, main gunner, forward gunner, rear gunner)

Engine: BMW IV water-cooled inline six-cylinder gasoline engine, 224 hp

Max speed: 26 km/h

Armament: 1x Type 90 57mm tank gun in the main turret

                    1x Type 91 6.5mm machine gun in the front turret

                    1x Type 91 6.5mm machine gun in the rear turret

Armor thickness: 17mm front - ~10mm side - 8mm rear

 

 

 

Type 95 Ro-Go

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The development of the Type 95 Heavy began in 1932, with a prototype not being complete until 1934. The overall structure of the chassis and module layout was much the same as the previous Type 91 prototype. However, it was given significantly thicker armor, thicker than all of Japan’s other tanks of the era. The amount of armor increased the weight of the vehicle to 26 tons, the heaviest tank Japan had yet built.
The suspension was also altered, with a much simpler form of leaf-spring suspension. The amount of road wheels was drastically reduced, down to 9 a side, giving it a total of 18. This was found to give the same performance, while being much less complicated.

 

We already have this tank ingame as a Rank I premium, and it is actualy really fun to play!

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 6.47 meters

Width: 2.70 meters

Height: 2.90 meters

Weight: 26.0 tons

Crew: 6 members (commander, driver, main gunner, forward gunner, rear gunner, loader)

Engine: BMW IV water-cooled inline six-cylinder gasoline engine, 290 hp

Max speed: 22 km/h

Armament: 1x Type 94 7cm tank gun in the main turret

                         1x Type 91 6.5mm, or Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear of the main turret

                    1x Type 94 37mm tank gun in the front turret

                    1x Type 91 6.5mm or Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear turret

Armor thickness: 35mm front - 30mm side - 25mm rear

 

 

Type 96 Ju-I (Ai-96)

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Designed sometime after the Type95 heavy tank, Japan delved into producing new tanks in an attempt to fielding them across China. Multiple companies are listed to have taken part. This tank had at least one unit built on February 1st, 1937. The Aichi 96 was equipped with 4 cannons, two in the turret, and two in the front hull. The tank was later changed to mount a single 75mm tank gun in the turret. However, which gun is not known. The standard guns labeled were 37's, likely being the same 37's standard used on the Ha-Go. The armour of the tank was only labeled to 35mm on the chart. Whether this is meant for total protection or just what the prototype was constructed with isnt noted. (To take the O-I as an example, the tank was made of a 35mm frame to which the extra armor plates were bolted on, so the prototype not having it's full armor makes sense)

 

It was crewed by 10 people. This tank was reported to have been sent to southern China by 1938. However, details havent been found at this time. Something additional to note is the manufacturer being listed as Aichi. Aichi did not have a prior history of tank development. A popular theory is these series of vehicles might have been designed in cooperation with foreign nations which had been popular at the time and contracted to various factories to build.

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 9.35 meters

Width: 3.25 meters

Height: 2.75 meters

Weight: 36.0 tons

Crew: 10 members (commander, driver, 2x main gunner? , 2x forward gunner? , 4x loader? )

Engine: Air- and water-cooled Aichi V12, 350 hp

Max speed: 58 km/h

Armament: 2x Type 94 37mm tank gun, or 1x (Unknown type) 75mm tank gun in the main turret

                         1x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear of the main turret

                    2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun, or 2x Type 94 37mm tank gun in the front hull

Armor thickness: 35mm front - ~30mm side - 25mm rear

(Translation difficulties also account for possibe mistakes in the armour thickness, some reports mentions some of these tanks as having 65mm of armour)

 

 

Type 97 Ju-Ro (Mitsu-97)

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The Type97's basic design copies the Russian T-28 medium tank, but uses a circular turret housing two cannons. The tank had at least one unit built on the date of 9-11-1936. The tank was built by Mitsubishi and weighed 32 tons. The armour was only listed to 35 millimeters, and crewed 6 men. More details haven't been found about the combat usage of the vehicle, however according to Japanese testimony, it was used by the 8th Regiment in Central China and seen at the Japanese Hitachi plant stationary by 1943. The tank was deemed unsatisfactory. 

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 7.45 meters

Width: 3 meters

Height: 2.93 meters

Weight: 32.0 tons

Crew: 6 members (commander, driver, main gunner, 2x forward gunner, loader)

Engine: Water-cooled Mitsubishi, 250 hp

Max speed: 45 km/h

Armament: 2x (Most likely) Type 94 37mm tank gun in the main turret

                    2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the front turrets

Armor thickness: 35mm front - ~30mm side - 22mm rear

(Translation difficulties also account for possibe mistakes in the armour thickness, some reports mentions some of these tanks as having 65mm of armour)

 

 

Type 97 Ju-Ha (Mitsu-104)

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The Mitsu-104 weighed 29 tons and was powered by a 350hp v12 engine. The armour frame was 35mm thick, while total frontal protection is not mentioned. The tank had a main turret with a 75mm cannon. It is also mentioned that the main turret had a 37mm gun. But interestingly, this 37mm might might have also been mounted in the rear of the turret. But the main turret is also shown with two machine guns in the rear.

 

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In the image below we can see the Mitsu-104 drawn at the top of the identification sheet. Here we can see that the front turrets are drawn with one having a 37mm gun and the other a machine gun. And in the rear of the main turret we see another 37mm gun.

 

 

The Mitsu-104 also had two hull turrets in the front mounting a Machine Gun. But the option to have a 37mm gun in these turrets also seems to be present. Or a combination with one turret having a 37mm guns and the other a machine gun is also likely.

British Intelligence came across the Mitsu-104 during the war, and hand drew an Appendix given to Infantry to aid in ID'ing if spotted in the field. The Mitsu-104 had a total crew count of 8 men.

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 8.30 meters

Width: 3.20 meters

Height: 2.80 meters

Weight: 29.0 tons

Crew: 8 members (commander, driver, main gunner, 2x forward gunner, 3x loader? )

Engine: Water-cooled Mitsubishi 12 cylinder, 250 hp

Max speed: 40 km/h

Armament: 1x Type 94 37mm tank gun, or 1x (Unknown type) 75mm tank gun in the main turret

                         2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear of the main turret

                    2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun, or 2x Type 94 37mm in the front turrets

Armor thickness: 35mm front - ~30mm side - 22mm rear

(Translation difficulties also account for possibe mistakes in the armour thickness, some reports mentions some of these tanks as having 65mm of armour)

 

 

Type ? Ju-Ni (Ishi-108)    ---Almost certainly fake!---

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Please watch this video before continuing to read this section of the post!

Everything about this tank seen below is all most likely fake, so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

 

This is the Ishikawajima's tank. Japan purchased the basic prints of their A1E1 Independent tank from Britain during the inter-war period. Ishikawajima decided to built a prototype tank of their own to match. It was armed with a 75mm cannon in its central turret. Two 37mm guns in the front two turrets, and two machine guns in the rear two turrets. On top of that, somewhere, a flamethrower seems to have been present. The tank was lightly armoured at only 30mm thick. However, it was powered by a 12 cylinder engine with 350 horsepower engine with an RPM count of 2500. It carried 750 rounds of munition for the guns and 15000 rounds for the MG's. It weighed a total of 38 tons.

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 9.75 meters

Width: 3.50 meters

Height: 2.80 meters

Weight: 38.0 tons

Crew: 12 members (commander, driver, main gunner, 4x sub-turret gunner, 3x loader? , 2x engineer? )

Engine: Water-cooled 12 cylinder, 350 hp

Max speed: 48 km/h

Armament: 1x (Unknown type) 75mm tank gun in the main turret

                    2x Type 94 37mm tank gun in the front turrets

                    2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear turrets

                    1x Flamethrower

Armor thickness: 30mm front - ~25mm side - 20mm rear

 

 

Type ? Ju-Ho? (Showa 10)

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Not much is known about this tank. It's listed as being armed with two cannons and several machineguns.

It does say that several 'Showa 10' had been landed in China. This is reinforced by a document found in the Japanese national archives in which a logistics officer in China requested more supplies of '7cm tank gun ammunition'. In the pre-war period the only Japanese tanks with 7cm guns were their heavy tanks. All the previously known models of heavy tanks, such as the Experimental II, did not leave the Japanese home islands which leaves the Mitsu-104 or 'Showa 10' as possibly the best candidates for such ammunition requests.

 

 

This Swedish identification sheet shows the Mitsu-104 on the top, and the rather weird "Medeltung Stridsvagn" (Medium heavy tank). Now this "Medeltung Stridsvagn" is NOT confirmed to be the Showa 10!!

But it does still leave some room for these unknown Japanese heavy tanks. But most likely this is just a miss-identification done by some intellegence officer during the war, it sort of resembles an Ishi-108 so it could just be that. Or the "Medeltung Stridsvagn" is just a fantasy tank.

 

Specifications

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Length: unknown

Width: unknown

Height: unknown

Weight: unknown

Crew: unknown

Engine: unknown

Max speed: unknown

Armament: Two cannons (Unknown type)

                    Several machineguns (presumably Type 97 7.7mm machine guns)

Armor thickness: unknown

 

 

Type 3?  O-I (Mi-To)

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The O-I (Also known as Mi-To early in it's development) was a Japanese 150 ton super heavy tank, designed for the purpose of breaking through heavily defended Soviet lines and force the Soviet armies back out of taken Manchurian lands. As was custom with Japanese heavy tanks, the Mi-To had a multi turreted system with two auxiliary turrets in the front part of the chassis, one primary turret in the center hull of the tank, and a machine gun turret located at the rear of the chassis. The blueprints for the Mi-To show a Type96 150mm Howitzer, and two new Type1 47mm guns in the front auxiliary turrets. Due to the excessive weight of the turrets, manual rotation would not be possible. Therefore, all four turrets were to be equipped with electric traverse drives.

 

Construction officially began on April 14th, 1941. The Army Technology Division had taken control on the project after Colonel Iwakuro left. The project was now overseen by Colonel Murata, an officer in the Army Technology Division. Murata had not expected the tank to have been so underfunded when he was assigned the position. He planned to finish body construction within the first three months of the start of the project. Unfortunately, resources had already started to dwindle by the time the frame was halfway through construction. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries had been contracted to build the armour plating for the vehicle. These resources were sent to garage the Mi-To began construction at.

The construction of the suspension, hull and secondary turrets of the Mi-To finished in early 1943. The chassis weighed 47 tons empty without additional armour. The tank weighed 97 tons when configured for mobility and defensive tests, but this did not include the weight of the turrets. The Mi-To weighed 120 tonnes when the three auxiliary turrets and other pieces of armour were installed. The primary turret and additional 75mm plating would have given the tank a weight of 150 tonnes, just as designed.

 

From August 3 to August 8, the engineers began repairing the damage that had been done to the tank during earlier tests. 32 of the total 64 bearings were broken during the tests due to the bearings having insufficient strength. The excessive weight of the O-I caused the entire right side of the tank to collapse when at an extreme angle. Engineer Shigeo Otaka recalls the O-I undergoing immediate repairs to continue its trials. However, due to the steep cost of the repairs, they were put on hold for over a year, with the tank staying at Sagami Arsenal until March of 1945. The war had been nearing its end, and the usefulness of the O-I in Manchuria began to fade. The Soviet Union was no longer Japan’s primary enemy, and the development of more powerful anti-tank guns by the Soviet Union made the armour protection of the superheavy tank obsolete. The project to built a single prototype unit came at a steeper expense than originally thought possible, mass production was not realistically possible for Japan during the war. The project had thus been deemed a failure.

 

 

Specifications

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Length: 10.12 meters

Width: 4.84 meters

Height: 3.63 meters

Weight: 150.0 tons

Crew: 11 members (commander, driver, co-driver, main gunner, 2x forward gunner, rear gunner, 2x loader, radio signaler, engineer)

Engine: 2x Kawasaki V-12 engines, 600 hp per engine, 1200 hp total

Max speed: 29 km/h

Armament: 1x Type96 150mm Howitzer in the main turret

                    2x Type1 47mm tank gun in the front turrets

                    2x Type 97 7.7mm machine gun in the rear turret

Armor thickness: 150mm front - 70mm side - 150mm rear

 

 

https://sensha-manual.blogspot.com/2018/09/o-i-superheavy-tank-complete-history.html

 

Heavy Tank No. VI

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In 1943, Japan requested their embassy in Germany to inspect new tanks Germany had been working on. The man assigned to lead this team was General Hiroshi Oshima. In 1943, Hiroshi spent a large portion of time conducting tests and personal trials in Siverskaya (Leningrad Oblast) with the 502nd Heavy Panzer Battalion. While there he and his team were able to get a firm grasp on the Panzer VI Tiger’s capabilities. To Hiroshi’s standards, the vehicle preformed outstandingly and wanted it to be purchased for use.

Payment of the Tiger tank was confirmed by Henschel on February 28th, 1944. After the purchase was made, the Army spent time analyzing the Tiger’s role in service. This caused a problem with the higher ups as its use was very limited. The tank could not be manufactured with the material quota, and with the war situation finding new methods for it specifically was not an option. No plans for transporting the Tiger were made, and in the meantime the Tiger was left in the hands of the 101st Heavy Panzer Battalion while stationed in Belgium. The events of the Tiger after is unknown, but most likely used during the Allied invasion.

 

Specifications

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Length: 6.32 meters

Width: 3.56 meters

Height: 3.00 meters

Weight: 57.3 tons

Crew: 5 members (commander, driver, gunner, loader, machine gunner)

Engine: Maybach HL 210 TRM P45, 650 hp

Max speed: 45 km/h

Armament: 1x KwK36 88mm tank gun in the main turret

                        1x MG34 7.92mm coaxial machine gun next to the main gun

                    1x MG34 7.92mm machine gun in the front hull

Armor thickness: 102mm front - 82mm side - 82mm rear

 

 

100 ton Mock-up super heavy tank

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This large tank mock-up was made to reproducing the largest heavy tanks possible around that time. It was thought that Germany and the Soviet Union would be using tanks of this size at some point. The weaponry on this mock-up is one 15cm gun, one 7cm gun and some machine guns and room for dozens of tank crews. This tank is large, so it was called a “moving fortress”.

 

This mockup tank was present at a tank exhibition. The mockup had a door on the side where people could go through to enter the mockup. Inside of it there were several machine guns, a drivers seat, gunner seat and rotatable observation window.

People could tour around the mockup during an expo. Sometimes children did not want to come out of the mockup because the rotating observation window on the third floor was a lot of fun to play with. This was a nice attraction in the hall, and it gained a lot of popularity.

 

 

Specifications

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This was a mockup tank, these specifications are completely irrelevant

 

Length: unknown

Width: unknown

Height: unknown

Weight: 100 tons

Crew: unknown

Engine: unknown

Max speed: unknown

Armament: 1x 150mm gun

                    1x 70mm (7cm could also mean 75mm) gun

                    several machineguns

Armor thickness: unknown

 

https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1065807/348

 

Unknown tank, 54-Ton, 4-inch gun, flamethrower

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The British had a note warning about a Japanese 54 Ton heavy tank that was armed with a 4 inch gun and a flamethrower. Altough no futher details were ever found, the Japanese were developing the Type 5 105mm tank gun around that time. So a heavy tank design that uses this gun is not so far fetched.

 

One vehicle that sort of fits this description is the mysterious Chi-Se heavy-medium tank. But there is a big chance that this tank is actually fake and was not a real Japanese late war project.

 

But for all we know it could have also been something completely different. We simply just don't know.

 

Specifications

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Length: unknown

Width: unknown

Height: unknown

Weight: 54 tons

Crew: unknown

Engine: unknown

Max speed: unknown

Armament: 1x (most likely a) Type 5 (Could have also been the Experimental version) 105mm tank gun

                    1x Flamethrower

Armor thickness: unknown

 

 

 

A size comparison photo, I put together myself, of all the Japanese heavy tanks we so far have information on

 

Now I know a lot of people have already posted about all the Japanese heavy tanks, but I wanted to do another Tank Series. So here you go, another Japanese heavy tank list 

Anyways guys that's all for now!

 

A lot of information came from the "Forgotten Tanks and Guns of the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s" book, by David Lister.

If you want to know more about these really interesting vehicles then be sure to get your hands on this book!

 

Also be sure to check out Seon Eun-Ae's newest post on the Fake Japanese Super-heavies. This post dives into the various misidentified O-I 'variants' and such, including the Type 4 and Type 5.

 

 

I hope you enjoyed, and be sure to check out my other TankSeries posts! 

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Or maybe you'll be interested in my other series of posts. The PlaneSeries! 

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Edited August 26, 2022 by super_cacti
Updated the information about the Ishi-108

[the_suztown 2,508]

I mean good effort and all but this post is literally one post down;

 

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

7 minutes ago, the_suztown said:

I mean good effort and all but this post is literally one post down;

 

at least they are all in the same page XD i hope to see them soon

[super_cacti 1,071]

8 minutes ago, the_suztown said:

I mean good effort and all but this post is literally one post down;

 

 

2 hours ago, super_cacti said:

Now I know a lot of people have already posted about all the Japanese heavy tanks, but I wanted to do another Tank Series. So here you go, another Japanese heavy tank list 

 

[joegunn1943 355]

Clicked on this expecting my thread and was confused.

[armando30 493]

when I first read about the older ones I just had a "hunch" they would probably be comparable to the German medium tanks up to BR 2.7~3.0, now reading more about the specs I believe my "hunch" is pretty much confirmed, with those added the 1st Rank of the Japanese GF tree would probably become one of the best in the game from the number of options but also the specs of the machines itself

[super_cacti 1,071]

21 minutes ago, armando30 said:

when I first read about the older ones I just had a "hunch" they would probably be comparable to the German medium tanks up to BR 2.7~3.0, now reading more about the specs I believe my "hunch" is pretty much confirmed, with those added the 1st Rank of the Japanese GF tree would probably become one of the best in the game from the number of options but also the specs of the machines itself

The Experimental II, Type 91, 96 and 97 are all good Rank I’s.

Mistu-104 and Ishi-108 work at Rank II.

Maybe the Type-96 with two 37mm guns in the Hull and one 75mm in the turret could work as a rank III. Also the O-I prototype is a great Rank III premium.

And then Ofcourse the O-I as te Rank IV super heavy. 

 

But Yeah, the Japanese low ranking heavy lineup is pretty darn strong.

Edited January 1, 2019 by super_cacti

[armando30 493]

Just now, super_cacti said:

The Experimental II, Type 91, 96 and 97 are all good Rank I’s.

Mistu-104 and Ishi-108 work at Rank II.

Maybe the Type-96 with two 37mm guns in the Hull and one 75mm in the turret could work as a rank III. Also the O-I prototype is a great Rank III premium.

And then Ofcourse the O-I as te Rank IV super heavy. 

 

But Yeah, the Japanese now ranking heavy lineup is pretty dark strong.

 

I mentioned Rank I more in terms of BR and comparision to other existing tanks, I also exluded the O-I and the other stronger ones from that reasoning

also, which exactly would be the 75mm used on the Type 96 and Mitsu-104?

something like the Type 99 used by the Ho-I? although it's entry into service does not seem to fit the timeline of the development of the Type 96 HT and Mitsu-104, at least for someone like myself who obviously does not pocess info on all cannons developed in Japan, or something like the Type 90 used for the Ho-Ni I?

it's important to know because it will completely change the dynamic of the vehicles, with something like the Type 99 cannon the Type 96 HT would probably be comparable to a Panzer IV at BR2.3 with the short 75mm cannon, while with the Type 90 it would be more like a less armoured Valentine Mk.XI at BR3.0 (in terms of gun performance) which could make the Type 96 HT a BR2.7 machine

 

the others with 37mm cannos and/or 57mm and 70mm cannons would obviously be inferior, even though the recent addition of the 57mm HEAT does give that cannon a new "life" (55mm pen at all distances at BR1.3 is quite good)

 

[super_cacti 1,071]

25 minutes ago, armando30 said:

 

I mentioned Rank I more in terms of BR and comparision to other existing tanks, I also exluded the O-I and the other stronger ones from that reasoning

also, which exactly would be the 75mm used on the Type 96 and Mitsu-104?

something like the Type 99 used by the Ho-I? although it's entry into service does not seem to fit the timeline of the development of the Type 96 HT and Mitsu-104, at least for someone like myself who obviously does not pocess info on all cannons developed in Japan, or something like the Type 90 used for the Ho-Ni I?

it's important to know because it will completely change the dynamic of the vehicles, with something like the Type 99 cannon the Type 96 HT would probably be comparable to a Panzer IV at BR2.3 with the short 75mm cannon, while with the Type 90 it would be more like a less armoured Valentine Mk.XI at BR3.0 (in terms of gun performance) which could make the Type 96 HT a BR2.7 machine

 

the others with 37mm cannos and/or 57mm and 70mm cannons would obviously be inferior, even though the recent addition of the 57mm HEAT does give that cannon a new "life" (55mm pen at all distances at BR1.3 is quite good)

 

Well wich exact 75mm gun is still rather unknown. But they are definitely of a field howitzer type. So mainly HE and HEAT. Maybe some AP shell of some kind.

 

And yeah the 37mm guns are decend for low BR and the 57mm and 70mm will do fine.

[joegunn1943 355]

2 hours ago, super_cacti said:

The Experimental II, Type 91, 96 and 97 are all good Rank I’s.

Mistu-104 and Ishi-108 work at Rank II.

Maybe the Type-96 with two 37mm guns in the Hull and one 75mm in the turret could work as a rank III. Also the O-I prototype is a great Rank III premium.

And then Ofcourse the O-I as te Rank IV super heavy. 

 

But Yeah, the Japanese low ranking heavy lineup is pretty darn strong.

I wouldn't say the Type 96 would work at rank III-The data we have suggests that the "cannons" in the hull were actually just ball-mounted machine guns. I believe the O-I turretless could act as the Rank III HT.

 

I'd see it like this:

 

Type 91 repalces Ro-Go

Ro-Go becomes the first HT

Type 96 follows Ro-Go

Type 97 follows Type 96

Ishi 108 follows Type 97 (or vice versa)

Mitsu-104 as final "Normal" heavy (With or without 37mms in auxillary turrets)

O-I turretless

O-I prototype

O-I production ends the line at 5.7-6.0

 

We just don't have enough info on the others to add them.

1 hour ago, armando30 said:

 

I mentioned Rank I more in terms of BR and comparision to other existing tanks, I also exluded the O-I and the other stronger ones from that reasoning

also, which exactly would be the 75mm used on the Type 96 and Mitsu-104?

something like the Type 99 used by the Ho-I? although it's entry into service does not seem to fit the timeline of the development of the Type 96 HT and Mitsu-104, at least for someone like myself who obviously does not pocess info on all cannons developed in Japan, or something like the Type 90 used for the Ho-Ni I?

it's important to know because it will completely change the dynamic of the vehicles, with something like the Type 99 cannon the Type 96 HT would probably be comparable to a Panzer IV at BR2.3 with the short 75mm cannon, while with the Type 90 it would be more like a less armoured Valentine Mk.XI at BR3.0 (in terms of gun performance) which could make the Type 96 HT a BR2.7 machine

 

the others with 37mm cannos and/or 57mm and 70mm cannons would obviously be inferior, even though the recent addition of the 57mm HEAT does give that cannon a new "life" (55mm pen at all distances at BR1.3 is quite good)

 

The Type 96 may or may not have used a 70mm. Either way, it was probably similar to the 70mm on the Ro-Go or Ho-I.

Edited January 1, 2019 by joegunn1943

[super_cacti 1,071]

36 minutes ago, joegunn1943 said:

Type 91 repalces Ro-Go

Ro-Go becomes the first HT

Type 96 follows Ro-Go

Type 97 follows Type 96

Ishi 108 follows Type 97 (or vice versa)

Mitsu-104 as final "Normal" heavy (With or without 37mms in auxillary turrets)

O-I turretless

O-I prototype

O-I production ends the line at 5.7-6.0

The Ro-Go will remain as a premium, premium tanks can't be switched with something else. Besides the Type 91 is terrible even at a BR of 1.0. So No one would buy that if it is a premium.

I've never heard anything about 37mm guns in the Mitsu-104's auxillary turrets.

And the O-I turretless and O-I prototype are the same thing. No main turret, 75mm of front and rear armour. And a still 100Ton tank with decend armour and just two little turrets with a 47mm gun in both of them cannot be a normal techtree tank. The O-I Prototype only fits as a premium in my opinion. 

 

But yeah your right, we are lacking to much information. But many of these tanks have had many different weapon loadouts, so if we can get more info on them we could get a bunch of variants of these tanks to fill in the Rank I to early Rank III area.

Edited January 1, 2019 by super_cacti

[Tasty95215 2,099]

30 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

Besides the Type 91 is terrible even at a BR of 1.0. So No one would buy that if it is a premium

 

Honestly the Type 91 would probably be fine at 1.0. Compared to the Type 89 I-Go (which, I know, is widely thought to be terrible but still), the Type 91 has:

• the same top speed
• slightly better power-to-weight, so better acceleration
• more useable machine guns due to the mini-turrets
• more crew
• slightly more armor
• Most importantly, it was tested with the Type 94 70mm tank gun, replacing the Type 90 57mm tank gun it started with. The 70mm gun would be considerably better, especially if Gaijin gives it its HEAT shell.

So I'm all for the Type 91 being in the game.

[joegunn1943 355]

39 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

The Ro-Go will remain as a premium, premium tanks can't be switched with something else. Besides the Type 91 is terrible even at a BR of 1.0. So No one would buy that if it is a premium.

I've never heard anything about 37mm guns in the Mitsu-104's auxillary turrets.

And the O-I turretless and O-I prototype are the same thing. No main turret, 75mm of front and rear armour. And a still 100Ton tank with decend armour and just two little turrets with a 47mm gun in both of them cannot be a normal techtree tank. The O-I Prototype only fits as a premium in my opinion. 

 

But yeah your right, we are lacking to much information. But many of these tanks have had many different weapon loadouts, so if we can get more info on them we could get a bunch of variants of these tanks to fill in the Rank I to early Rank III area.

^Tell that to the D.520. Furthermore, the tank would do fine: It has similar armor to other Japanese reserve tanks while having a 70mm howitzer. It could be useful as a 1.0 derp premium.

To quote David Lister's book:"Two machine guns, or 2 37mm cannons, in subturrets".

The O-I turretless is not the same as the O-I prototype. The O-I proto is the tank with the 15cm howitzer without the add-on 75mm armor.

The O-I turretless could act as a 3.0-3.3 heavy tank, as it can kill tanks it will meet (the Panzer 4s, T-34s,) While also being somewhat vulnerable itself.

Edited January 1, 2019 by joegunn1943

[super_cacti 1,071]

14 hours ago, joegunn1943 said:

The O-I turretless is not the same as the O-I prototype. The O-I proto is the tank with the 15cm howitzer without the add-on 75mm armor.

The O-I turretless could act as a 3.0-3.3 heavy tank, as it can kill tanks it will meet (the Panzer 4s, T-34s,) While also being somewhat vulnerable itself.

Still isn't having three O-I's a bit to much? The O-I that actualy existed is the O-I turretless. And then the production version has the full 150mm of armour and main turret. Having yet another O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret is not needed. Besides, there where no plans to make a O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret in real life. They had the turretless prototype, and they had to full 150 Ton super heavy tank.

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

2 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

Still isn't having three O-I's a bit to much? The O-I that actualy existed is the O-I turretless. And then the production version has the full 150mm of armour and main turret. Having yet another O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret is not needed. Besides, there where no plans to make a O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret in real life. They had the turretless prototype, and they had to full 150 Ton super heavy tank.

Probably it could be added for marketing reasons like the ho ri prototype was added

Edited January 2, 2019 by MadMax_ITA_

[super_cacti 1,071]

2 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Probably it could be added for marketing reasons like the ho ri prototype was added

Well a event vehicle maybe. But I don't think a third O-I will be needed.

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

35 minutes ago, super_cacti said:

Well a event vehicle maybe. But I don't think a third O-I will be needed.

Like the E100 for example, as a really difficult event because there would already be 2 in the tree and because we don't have to give it to everyone otherwise the problem wouldn't be solved

[super_cacti 1,071]

40 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Like the E100 for example, as a really difficult event because there would already be 2 in the tree and because we don't have to give it to everyone otherwise the problem wouldn't be solved

Yeah exactly, or maybe as a IS-7 style event. Having to build an O-I could be fun, and people that are not interested can just leave it alone.

Edited January 2, 2019 by super_cacti

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

16 hours ago, joegunn1943 said:

I'd see it like this:

Type 91 1.0

Type 96 follows Ro-Go 1.3/1.7

Type 97 follows Type 96 1.7/2.0

Ishi 108 follows Type 97 (or vice versa) 2.7

Mitsu-104 as final "Normal" heavy (With or without 37mms in auxillary turrets) 3.0/3.3

O-I turretless 5.0

O-I prototype 5.3

O-I production ends the line at 5.7/6.0

A little bit like this? Since the ro go has to stay as a premium because of the law, they sold it like that, changing would bring legal problems. I'm not an expert and I don't know all the values for every gun so you could try some better brs

[super_cacti 1,071]

1 hour ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

A little bit like this? Since the ro go has to stay as a premium because of the law, they sold it like that, changing would bring legal problems. I'm not an expert and I don't know all the values for every gun so you could try some better brs

Seems about right with all the information we know so far. Some of these heavy tanks might have armour going up to the 70-100mm range tho. But untill we know that for certain, what you said looks pretty good.

[joegunn1943 355]

2 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

A little bit like this? Since the ro go has to stay as a premium because of the law, they sold it like that, changing would bring legal problems. I'm not an expert and I don't know all the values for every gun so you could try some better brs

I'd put the turretless O-I at 3.0-3.3. It only has 75mm of armor and a pair of 47mm guns

 

Furthermore, is there a law set in stone the Ro-Go can't be non-premium? The D520 was a premium but now it's a standard tree aircraft

[joegunn1943 355]

4 hours ago, super_cacti said:

Still isn't having three O-I's a bit to much? The O-I that actualy existed is the O-I turretless. And then the production version has the full 150mm of armour and main turret. Having yet another O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret is not needed. Besides, there where no plans to make a O-I with 75mm of armour and a main turret in real life. They had the turretless prototype, and they had to full 150 Ton super heavy tank.

I don't really think so. We have 2 Tiger ones, 3 KV-1s, 2 Tiger IIs, 2 T32s and 2 AMX-50s, 3 if you count the Foch (it was classified as an AMX 50 gun tank). Japan actually needs heavy tanks, so 3 distinct O-I variants are fine for the regular tree. And Yes, there were plans to produce an O-I with 75mm frontal armor, the "Full" production version was this tank with 75mm of extra armor bolted onto the front.

[_qaz_ 675]

I don't know how you can pull out 3 O-I tanks from the project. Prototype O-I is without a turret.

[super_cacti 1,071]

47 minutes ago, ARADO_AKBAR said:

I don't know how you can pull out 3 O-I tanks from the project. Prototype O-I is without a turret.

Yeah, the prototype has 75mm of front and rear armour and no main turret.

And the so called production version has 150mm of front and rear armour and the main turret.

 

I vote for just two O-I's. Having three is not needed and is to much.

[armando30 493]

46 minutes ago, ARADO_AKBAR said:

I don't know how you can pull out 3 O-I tanks from the project. Prototype O-I is without a turret.

 

thechnically it is possible since the way the O-I was assembled would indeed allow 3 configurations

1st) hull with 75mm of armour and auxiliary turrets but no main turret

2nd) all equipment mounted except the additional 75mm armour plates

3rd) full configuration with a max of 150mm of armour thickness

 

the real issue is the turretless O-I since it woule mean having a open-toped Super Heavy Tank, the bigger problem would be the location of the fuel tanks beneath the main turret, without main turret they would be exposed and due to it's large size it would probably be highly vulnerable against artillery support, even with the steel cover

 

also, I read the full article on the O-I again just to make sure and it says the turrets were being built since 1942 and that the 3 auxiliary turrets were completed, it has neither mention of the primary turret being cancelled or completed before the cancellation of the project, it only says the turrets were transported by Ha-Go's and Chi-Ha's, that means that at least all parts of the vehicle were ready even if not fully assembled, in my opinion it is way less of a problem than the case of some other tanks in the game that never existed as they are represented in the game, that means there's no reason not to add at least the 2 complete O-I's