GDR Mig-19S (Farmer C)

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

East-German Mig-19S or Farmer C

 

 

The east-German used Mig-19S (Farmer-C) was one of the first exported Mig-19 variants, they were bought directly from Soviet Russia, since the Mig-19 failed to succesfully counter the American U-2 spy-plane, which resulted in a rather short service time in Soviet Russia, since multiple incidents and technological advancements hindered the Mig-19 to be viable for a prolonged period of time. For example the 1960s incident, where an American U-2 was shot down by a Soviet surface to air missle, resulted in a temporary withdrawal of American spy-plane activity and the Mig-19 was already getting replaced by the Mig-21 since 1958. This however, sped up the process of the Mig-19 being more viable as an export plane for Warsaw-Pact countries, which in turn increased the effectiveness of the countrie's air-forces, since most (like east-Germany) still used variants of the Mig-17.

In total, east-Germany bought 12 Mig-19S (along 12 additional Mig-19PM) for a total of 33 million D-Mark (~16,8 Million EUR) in 1958 (production of the Mig-19S was already halted in 1957). The S (Stabilisator) variant had a pendulum-tail, which eliminated the previous stability problems earlier Mig-19 variants had. The Mig-19S was also equipped with a long-range navigation receiver.

 

The armament of the Mig-19S consisted of three NR-30 30mm cannons and ordonance options of either two FAB-250 unguided bombs (one per wing), or two rocket-pods for a total of 16 unguided S-5 57mm rockets. The Mig-19S was not armed with any air to air missle systems during it's service in the NVA.

 

More pictures:

 

 

 

 

Specifications:

 

Crew: 1

Length: 14,8m

Width: 9m

Height: 3,8m

Empty weight: 5,1T

Normal take-off weight: 7,5T

Max take-off weight: 8,6T

Max speed (10.000m): 1.454km/h

Cruising speed: 950km/h

Rate of climb: 115m/s

Service ceiling: 18.700m

Normal range: 1380km

Max range (with drop-tanks): 2000km

Take-off distance: 500m

Landing distance: 690m

Engines: 2x TL Tumanski RD-9B afterburning turbo-jets (without afterburners 2x 25,02 kN / with afterburners 2x 31,74 kN)

Armament: 3x NR-30 (2x 75 RPG wing-mounted, 1x 50 RPG fuselage mounted)

                   2x FAB-250 unguided bombs or 2x ORD-57K rocket pods for 2x eight S-5 57mm unguided rockets

 

S-5 warhead types (added by Not_from_Tokyo):

 

 

 

The S-5 57mm unguided rocket had a large arrange of different variants, suited for different combat situations. I am not quite certain which types the NVA specifically used, but I'll list some here, to give an overall overview of with what the Mig-19S could be armed:

 

 

S-5: First version and standard HE (against air and soft skin targets)

S-5M1: HE-FRAG (against mostly infantry and non-armored vehicles)

S-5K1: HEAT (around 130mm against RHA)

S-5KPB: HEAT-FRAG (around 250mm against RHA)

S-5P1: Chaff (radar countermeasure)

S-5-O: Flare (Illumination / IR-counter)

S-5-O1: Flare (illumination flare with parachute)

S-5Kor: AGM (250mm against RHA)

 

 

NR-30 ammo-types (added by Not_from_Tokyo):

 

 

 

Here is a more in-Depth look at the ammunition used by the NR-30 30mm cannon, as @Not_from_Tokyo suggested, I'll only list the older ammo types:

 

 

HEI (high-explosive-incindiary (43,6g of explosive/incindiary mass))

APHE (armor-piercing-high-explosive (ballistic cap over HE mass with a base fuse)

Chaff (radar counteracting material is released from the shell-base while airborne)
 

 

Additional info regarding internal and external layout (added by Not_from_Tokyo):

 

 

 

The Mig-19S was equipped with a "Svod" long-range navigation receiver, an improved internal fuel-layout which increased safety, a better radio-system, a new gun-ranging radar was installed, which prooved superior to the SRD-1 Radial M gun-ranging radar used on the base Mig-19 model. The new gun-ranging radar was also coupled with a trajectory calculation system, which in turn controlled the gun-sight, which made aerial close-range engagements with enemy planes more managable. Furthermore a third ventral air-brake was added, aswell as larger blast-panels on the sides of the fuselage, to protect from the intense muzzle flashes of the NR-30 cannons.
 

 

Thank you all for reading and if you spot a mistake, or want to add something to the suggestion, please post it below so I can correct/add it!

 

Cheers

 

Thanks to @Not_from_Tokyo for providing extra infos regarding this topic!

 

Sources:

 

http://www.bredow-web.de/US_Air_Force/Kampfjets/Mikojan-Gurewitsch_MiG-19/mikojan-gurewitsch_mig-19.html

https://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/artikel/647490

http://deacademic.com/dic.nsf/dewiki/949675

http://www.skytamer.com/MiG-19S.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-5_(Rakete)

https://web.archive.org/web/20091022233649/http://www.russianammo.org/30mm.html

http://www.historynet.com/mig-19-serve-north-vietnamese.htm

Edited January 5, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch
Added poll.

[Princess_Pinch 5,625]

Open for discussion. 

[Bend_Ova 110]

Aw man! 

 

I was going to make a suggestion post on the MiG-19S tomorrow! I had the whole layout done and information ready haha. I know it's not allowed to use suggestion posts to push for my own agenda but I'll make some additions to your post with some more information! Particularly the ammunition used for the S-5 unguided rockets and the NS-30 cannon. 

 

First for the S-5, subtypes that would/should also be available in game would consist of HEAT anti-armor rounds, High Explosive Fragmentation rounds, Smoke rounds, and Incendiary rounds! I think this is great because apart from some capability of destroying enemy armored vehicles in Ground Force battles, you also have the awesome option of providing tactical support to your team by laying down smoke or setting some areas on fire! (If or when the game developers implement a more destructive/longer lasting version of incendiary effects seen in other games such as Battlefield) Source; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-5_rocket 

 

In regards to the NS-30's ammunition selection, there's many options listed in one of my sources that focuses all on soviet-based ammunition;https://web.archive.org/web/20091022233649/http://www.russianammo.org/30mm.html  (It must be kept in mind that in regards to the NR-30, only early ammunition types should be taken into account for the MiG-19 platform)

 

Moving away from the armament, we should focus on the fact that the S model was the definitive refinement over the immature base MiG-19 model. The certain improvements that were bestowed upon the S model was a better fuel layout for safety (Although the aircraft was still prone to dangerous malfunctions in real life due to rushed or careless manufacturing), a better radio than what was carried on the MiG-19, a better radar gunsight than what was carried on the MiG-19, and better gunsight ranging radar than what was carried on the MiG-19. 

 

As for certainties, that is, what was definitely on the MiG-19S, is as follows; the "Svod" long-range air navigation system receiver, larger blast panels for protection against muzzle blast from the upgraded main armament, a third airbrake via the ventral airbrake. 

 

It's also certain that the Gorizont-1 ground control link or better, was carried over to the MiG-19S as it was introduced in the developmental MiG-19PG, a variant that was experimented with in between development of improving the MiG-19 in order to produce the MiG-19S. Also certain is that the MiG-19S carry the RV-2 radio altimeter or better, as it's mentioned to have been on the MiG-19, and although the S model is supposed to be an overall improvement in individual areas of the MiG-19, it's not stated that a new/better radio altimeter was fitted to the MiG-19S, nor was it stated that there was a need for an improvement there. 

 

For the better radio part of the MiG-19S, it's certain that it was better than the RSIU-3M "Klen" radio featured on the MiG-19. 

 

For the better gunsight part of the MiG-19S, it's not certain what specific type of radio gunsight was even featured in the base MiG-19 so overall, it's not certain where this lead to. 

 

For the better gunsight ranging radar part of the MiG-19S, it's certain that it was better than the SRD Radial M featured on the MiG-19. 

 

Sources for improvements/certanties: http://www.skytamer.com/MiG-19S.html 

                                                       http://www.historynet.com/mig-19-serve-north-vietnamese.htm 

 

That's all I have to add! Thanks for making a suggestion post about the GDR MiG-19S and thanks for looking into my own additions!

Edited January 5, 2019 by Not_from_Tokyo

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

8 hours ago, Not_from_Tokyo said:

Aw man! 

 

I was going to make a suggestion post on the MiG-19S tomorrow! I had the whole layout done and information ready haha. I know it's not allowed to use suggestion posts to push for my own agenda but I'll make some additions to your post with some more information! Particularly the ammunition used for the S-5 unguided rockets and the NS-30 cannon. 

 

First for the S-5, subtypes that would/should also be available in game would consist of HEAT anti-armor rounds, High Explosive Fragmentation rounds, Smoke rounds, and Incendiary rounds! I think this is great because apart from some capability of destroying enemy armored vehicles in Ground Force battles, you also have the awesome option of providing tactical support to your team by laying down smoke or setting some areas on fire! (If or when the game developers implement a more destructive/longer lasting version of incendiary effects seen in other games such as Battlefield) Source; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-5_rocket 

 

In regards to the NS-30's ammunition selection, there's many options listed in one of my sources that focuses all on soviet-based ammunition;https://web.archive.org/web/20091022233649/http://www.russianammo.org/30mm.html  (It must be kept in mind that in regards to the NR-30, only early ammunition types should be taken into account for the MiG-19 platform)

 

Moving away from the armament, we should focus on the fact that the S model was the definitive refinement over the immature base MiG-19 model. The certain improvements that were bestowed upon the S model was a better fuel layout for safety (Although the aircraft was still prone to dangerous malfunctions in real life due to rushed or careless manufacturing), a better radio than what was carried on the MiG-19, a better radar gunsight than what was carried on the MiG-19, and better gunsight ranging radar than what was carried on the MiG-19. 

 

As for certainties, that is, what was definitely on the MiG-19S, is as follows; the "Svod" long-range air navigation system receiver, larger blast panels for protection against muzzle blast from the upgraded main armament, a third airbrake via the ventral airbrake. 

 

It's also certain that the Gorizont-1 ground control link or better, was carried over to the MiG-19S as it was introduced in the developmental MiG-19PG, a variant that was experimented with in between development of improving the MiG-19 in order to produce the MiG-19S. Also certain is that the MiG-19S carry the RV-2 radio altimeter or better, as it's mentioned to have been on the MiG-19, and although the S model is supposed to be an overall improvement in individual areas of the MiG-19, it's not stated that a new/better radio altimeter was fitted to the MiG-19S, nor was it stated that there was a need for an improvement there. 

 

For the better radio part of the MiG-19S, it's certain that it was better than the RSIU-3M "Klen" radio featured on the MiG-19. 

 

For the better gunsight part of the MiG-19S, it's not certain what specific type of radio gunsight was even featured in the base MiG-19 so overall, it's not certain where this lead to. 

 

For the better gunsight ranging radar part of the MiG-19S, it's certain that it was better than the SRD Radial M featured on the MiG-19. 

 

Sources for improvements/certanties: http://www.skytamer.com/MiG-19S.html 

                                                       http://www.historynet.com/mig-19-serve-north-vietnamese.htm 

 

That's all I have to add! Thanks for making a suggestion post about the GDR MiG-19S and thanks for looking into my own additions!

Thanks alot, I'll make sure to add the info! Also, sorry man, I didn't know you were thinking about doing the same. I probably won't do more suggestions for now, but incase I do, I let you know, so this won't happen again.

 

Cheers

[dotEXCEL 5,968]

+1

[Bend_Ova 110]

On 05/01/2019 at 03:17, Stuhlfleisch said:

Thanks alot, I'll make sure to add the info! Also, sorry man, I didn't know you were thinking about doing the same. I probably won't do more suggestions for now, but incase I do, I let you know, so this won't happen again.

 

Cheers

Aw you don't have to tell me! I'm glad the MiG-19S was suggested at all! We all have to support eachother anyways when it comes to good vehicle suggestions. The MiG-19S is just my favorite early Cold-War Jet for East Germany! Thanks for the sincerity though, I appreciate it. 

 

Next up, we'll have to suggest the MiG-23ML, the MiG-23BN, and the Su-22M-4! 

 

I won't be advocating for the MiG-29A because unlike everything else they bought prior, the MiG-29A's they got from the Soviet Union were unfortunately Monkey Models. 

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,349]

As long as the USSR also gets it I don't mind. 

 

On 08/01/2019 at 02:56, Not_from_Tokyo said:

the MiG-23BN, and the Su-22M-4! 

 

 

Those better be for Russia, you can't possibly be thinking of giving everything Russian to Germany is a good idea 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

3 hours ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

As long as the USSR also gets it I don't mind. 

 

 

Those better be for Russia, you can't possibly be thinking of giving everything Russian to Germany is a good idea 

I mean, they were used by east-Germany and east-Germany is still Germany, just like the third-Reich was. The Mig-19 is a part of German military history, just like the Fw 190, Me 262, Alpha Jet, G.91R/3, F-104G, Mig-21F-13 etc etc. As long as they were used by that nation, they are up for consideration to be added into War Thunder. Gaijin themselves said, that more east-German vehicles are very possible to be added in the future.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,349]

18 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

I mean, they were used by east-Germany and east-Germany is still Germany, just like the third-Reich was. The Mig-19 is a part of German military history, just like the Fw 190, Me 262, Alpha Jet, G.91R/3, F-104G, Mig-21F-13 etc etc. As long as they were used by that nation, they are up for consideration to be added into War Thunder. Gaijin themselves said, that more east-German vehicles are very possible to be added in the future.

 

Grind them where they all respectfully belong, in the Russian tech tree! 

 

How would you feel if these came to the game?

 

 

 

Because they used all of them does not mean it would be a cool idea to have them all in the game. I could let a couple pass, but having every single MiG that would be tier 6 all in a tech tree that had nothing to do with designing them? *Sigh* come on. This is from the point of view of someone who has fully completed the research on all aviation trees, if you haven't or you're exclusively a German player I guess I can understand.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Hmm nice British captured panther Cuckoo at a guess love that tank and I see a British captured 262 also neat i wouldn't mind seeing Cuckoo or tiger 131 ya know giver Germans a taste of there own medicine like they do to us in the Churchill

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

9 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

Grind them where they all respectfully belong, in the Russian tech tree! 

 

How would you feel if these came to the game?

 

 

 

Because they used all of them does not mean it would be a cool idea to have them all in the game. I could let a couple pass, but having every single MiG that would be tier 6 all in a tech tree that had nothing to do with designing them? *Sigh* come on. This is from the point of view of someone who has fully completed the research on all aviation trees, if you haven't or you're exclusively a German player I guess I can understand.

 

There is a difference between captured vehicles and actually purchased one's that where used by the Military in bigger numbers. America didn't use 148 Tiger II tanks as one of their main tank fleets, but east-Germany did have 148 T-54As they bought from Polish production as an example.

 

These vehicles you showed could be future event/premiums, since we already have things like the T-V and various captured premiums. From a historical point of view, adding east-German vehicles to a German tech-tree is just as valid as adding west-German or third-Reich vehicles, even Kaiserreich ships, for example, would be viable.

 

The tech-tree is called "Germany", not "Third Reich", "GDR" or "FRG", so all vehicles used by Germany/The Third Reich/FRG/GDR are viable to be added.

19 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

Hmm nice British captured panther Cuckoo at a guess love that tank and I see a British captured 262 also neat i wouldn't mind seeing Cuckoo or tiger 131 ya know giver Germans a taste of there own medicine like they do to us in the Churchill

I wouldn't mind, they could be premiums or event vehicles, since they were captured and used, but this isn't the thread to discuss British captured vehicles, so I suggest not continuing it here.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Fair enough

[Aerobane 4,140]

4 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

 

There is a difference between captured vehicles and actually purchased one's that where used by the Military in bigger numbers. America didn't use 148 Tiger II tanks as one of their main tank fleets, but east-Germany did have 148 T-54As they bought from Polish production as an example.

 

These vehicles you showed could be future event/premiums, since we already have things like the T-V and various captured premiums. From a historical point of view, adding east-German vehicles to a German tech-tree is just as valid as adding west-German or third-Reich vehicles, even Kaiserreich ships, for example, would be viable.

 

The tech-tree is called "Germany", not "Third Reich", "GDR" or "FRG", so all vehicles used by Germany/The Third Reich/FRG/GDR are viable to be added.

Actually those designs above make more sense than the RUSSIAN vehicles that were given to East Germany (not the same Germany that used the leopard or patton).

 

The kingtiger and stug actually did fight next to other American vehicles. To see an American Stug next to an American Sherman isn't insane. The GDR mig 19S never fought next to the CL-13A saber. Any time those two were in the sky together, their number one concern would be that the other would start shooting. Thats the problem. "Germany used it" no, East Germany used it. East Germany never touched half the vehicles in the German tree. Add the mig 19? Remove the CL-13A sabre, M48/47, etc... (Better yet, just let Germany use vehicles that were designed in Germany)

 

You do realize that the soviet satellite state strong independent tank developing nation that was East Germany used just about every single soviet vehicle past tier V? Your criteria of "East Germany used it so its fair" makes the entire top half of the Russian tree completely and utterly redundant because every single vehicle save for a few oddities was given to East Germany.

 

Considering that East Germany was extremely closely aligned with the Soviet Union militarily and would shoot at most of the German tech tree vehicles on sight, it makes much, MUCH more sense to include the East German vehicles in the Russian tree as either camouflages or premiums/event vehicles. The fact that you can include an entire East German tree with exclusively camouflages tells you that maybe that is a better idea. What you suggest is quite literally selecting soviet tier V and VI, pressing ctrl C, moving to the German tech tree, and pressing ctrl V. These tanks weren't designed by Germans and they often weren't even made by Germans.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

2 minutes ago, Aerobane said:

Actually those designs above make more sense than the RUSSIAN vehicles that were given to East Germany (not the same Germany that used the leopard or patton).

 

The kingtiger and stug actually did fight next to other American vehicles. To see an American Stug next to an American Sherman isn't insane. The GDR mig 19S never fought next to the CL-13A saber. Any time those two were in the sky together, their number one concern would be that the other would start shooting. Thats the problem. "Germany used it" no, East Germany used it. East Germany never touched half the vehicles in the German tree. Add the mig 19? Remove the CL-13A sabre, M48/47, etc... (Better yet, just let Germany use vehicles that were designed in Germany)

 

You do realize that the soviet satellite state strong independent tank developing nation that was East Germany used just about every single soviet vehicle past tier V? Your criteria of "East Germany used it so its fair" makes the entire top half of the Russian tree completely and utterly redundant because every single vehicle save for a few oddities was given to East Germany.

 

Considering that East Germany was extremely closely aligned with the Soviet Union militarily and would shoot at most of the German tech tree vehicles on sight, it makes much, MUCH more sense to include the East German vehicles in the Russian tree as either camouflages or premiums/event vehicles. The fact that you can include an entire East German tree with exclusively camouflages tells you that maybe that is a better idea. What you suggest is quite literally selecting soviet tier V and VI, pressing ctrl C, moving to the German tech tree, and pressing ctrl V. These tanks weren't designed by Germans and they often weren't even made by Germans.

 

I already stated that I would support a split matchmaker for east-German vehicles for RB and SB, they would be handled like Russian one's. I simply think, that east-German vehicles should be researchable in the German tech-tree, but in the end, it's Gaijin's call on how to handle east- and west-Germany and as of yet, it looks like they are going to continue the trend of having east- and west-Germany fight along with eachother, with GDR and FRG vehicles being researched normally like any other in one comprehensive, German, tech-tree, since they "recently" added more east-German vehicles, the Project 206 and Mi-24P, to the German TT.

The only tech-tree line that did not receive any east-German vehicles, as of yet, is the ground-forces.

[Ein79 5,749]

On 04/01/2019 at 22:56, Stuhlfleisch said:

East-German Mig-19S or Farmer C

 

 

I want it!

But first of all: if the German "cold war" tech tree is meant to be continued, the Eastern Germany faction should fight as Russia's allies, not against it!

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Einherjer1979

[ivica70 910]

Fully support this suggestion! 

 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

3 minutes ago, ivica70 said:

Fully support this suggestion! 

 

Thank you

[Functor 230]

What I like about this mig is that it can actually be a unique vehicle for a while: the URSS one has missiles, this one has an extra gun. Supported. 

 

The whole east west debate is indeed a thing but for air RB I don’t see why we don’t have a split matchmaker option yet. Seems like an easy thing since only one plane is flown and not a whole lineup. Maybe some awful coding behind the MM is to blame. 

[Ein79 5,749]

Maybe we could get it with nice camo?

[Bend_Ova 110]

On 16/01/2019 at 17:12, Einherjer1979 said:

Maybe we could get it with nice camo?

Yeah i think it looks great!

[Milocat 4,849]

Well, it's happening.  

 

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6047-development-mig-19s-magnificent-performance-en 

 

Looks like Gaijin is going to continue to embrace the East German side of things in the future.  

[Functor 230]

There it is! I presume they don't want to rush in with the mach 2 stuff, so 19s is logical. We will see though

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Functor

[Bend_Ova 110]

We made it you Western Scum! How dare you doubt me and my Kamaraden! 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

YES! We did it, though I doubt, that this suggestion made much of a difference, I am very happy, that the Mig-19S was chosen over the Mig-19PM and I am very thankful for your support guys! ZUM GRUß! 

[Ein79 5,749]

2 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

YES! We did it, though I doubt, that this suggestion made much of a difference, I am very happy, that the Mig-19S was chosen over the Mig-19PM and I am very thankful for your support guys! ZUM GRUß! 

 

YES, I'm happy too. But again - if the German "cold war" tech tree is meant to be continued, the Eastern Germany faction should fight as Russia's allies, not against it!