T-72S

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

T-72S "The east-German shield"

 

 

During the 39th meeting of the MWTR, April 1989 in Warsaw, east-Germany discussed various upgrades and implementations of equipment for the NVA.

Upon other things, it was stated, that the NVA won't receive new T-72 MBTs (more precisely T-72S) until 1995, where it was then planned, that a batch of Romanian produced T-72S tanks would be purchased by the NVA. This plan of course never was executed, because of the subsequent fall of the GDR between 1989 and 1990.

 

I will however still suggest this tank for the German tech-tree, because it would have been fielded, if the GDR wouldn't have fallen, since there was a definitive desire coming from the GDR, to purchase these MBT's in the future.

 

Picture of the same T-72S model, that east-Germany would‘ve received after 1995

 

Mentions of the T-72S during the 39th meeting of the MWRT:

 

 

Translation (second + third line):

#Equipping tanker-units with tanks of higher quality, increasing the amount of T-72 tanks by 27% and adoption of new T-72S.

 

 

 

Translation (third - point)

The NVA won‘t adopt T-72S until after 1995 and won‘t proceed with deeper modernization work of T-72's from CSSR and Poland until 1993, only the possible modernizations of the RWN will be executed until 1993 (add-on armor on the frontal hull, smoke-launchers, rubber-mesh side-skirts).

 

The adoption of the T-72S by the East German army for the 1990's was recommended by the "Military Scientific and Technical Council" of the Warsaw Treaty:

Spoiler

 

Additional info, provided by @Private_Wolk, thanks again for your continued efforts!

- After some digging I have found evidence suggesting that the T-72S was offered to all nations of the Warsaw Pact in 1987. This would support the aforementioned post that East Germany did in fact place an order for the T-72S at the very end of the 1980s. The Source goes as follows: Marine Corps Intelligence Activity. Soviet/Russian Armour and Artillery Design Practices: 1945-1995. (pg I-99,I-100). September 1996

 

The tank was not intended to be used by the USSR and would be therfore a unique tank for the German tech-tree, it features the 125mm 2A46M (D81-TM) smooth-bore cannon, one 7,62mm PKT coaxial machine-gun and one 12,7mm NSVT AA machine-gun.

Furthermore it had the V-46-6 liquid-cooled four-stroke diesel engine, which produced a total of 840hp.

 

The T-72S is also equipped with the 1K13-49 BOM day-night periscope, which allowed for aiming with the 9M119 "Svir" ATGM, though launching ATGMs with the 1K13-49 was only possible during daylight hours.

The 1A40 FCS (fire control system) of the tank is paired with the TPD-K1 main gun-sight, which, requires the gunner to lase a target's range, before a leading point indicator can be displayed.

Both the ATGM-complex, aswell as the FCS are identical to the T-72B obr.1985.

 

Gunner's battlestation:

(1K13-49 BOM left, TPD-K1 right)

 

 

Since the tank is the export version of the T-72B (object 184) it features no radiation lining, a simplified NBC system, a different engine (V-46-6, instead of V-84-1), aswell as fewer "Kontakt-1" ERA blocks (227 on T-72B vs 155 on T-72S).

The armor protection would be very similar to the T-72B, with composite arrays in the turret, aswell as spaced armor in the hull, plus a total of 155 "Kontakt-1" ERA blocks.

 

Turret armor:

(same as T-72B minus the anti-radiation lining on the roof)

 

 

Hull armor:

(ERA, RHA / HHRA and air) (same as T-72B)

 

 

These armor-values are a rough estimation made by me, by using Gaijins official armor values. Of course the 845mm against CE only apply where ERA is present on the UFP, also the driver-port is not shown 100% accurately, I think it's a bit bigger, but the outline is rather hard to spot with the Kontakt-1 ontop of it, so take these estimations with a grain of salt.

 

Auto-loading mechanism:

 

 

Side-view:

http://www.t-72.de/alt/assets/images/autogen/a_Varianten_-_T-72S1_Shilden.gif

 

Ammunition:

 

Based on the 125mm ammo the NVA received for their T-72M and T-72M1 fleet being around 10 years older, than the tank's date of entering service in the NVA, standard ammunition for the east-German T-72S (would enter service in 1995) would probably also be around 10 years older, than the date of the T-72S entering service.

 

Bear in mind, that the ammo I list here would be the "top-tier" ammunition for the T-72S, meaning the APFSDS and HEAT-FS might be unlockable, while the freshly bought T-72S comes stock with weaker rounds, like 3BM22 APFSDS-T for example.

 

Here's the ammo the T-72S most likely would have been fielded with (*speculation on my part, as I was unable to find planned ammo that was to be introduced in the 1990's):

 

- *3BM26 (1983) APFSDS-T with estimated 410mm of penetration at 2000m 0°

- *3BK21B (1982) HEAT-FS with estimated penetration of 750mm at 0°

- 3OF26 (1970) HE-FS

- 9M119 "Svir" (1980) (AT-11 "Sniper") ATGM with estimated penetration of 900mm at 0° (5km effective range)

 

Specifications:

 

Crew: 3

Combat-weight: 46,5T

Lenght: 9,533m

Width: 3,590m

Height: 2,280m

Engine: V-46-6 liquid-cooled four-stroke diesel engine (840hp)

Max speed (road): 60km/h

Max speed (CC): 36km/h

Max speed (reverse): 4km/h

Reload time: 8 seconds

Range (with fuel-barrels): 550km

Armament: 1x 125mm 2A46M (D81-TM) cannon (44 rounds (22 in carouselle)) / 1x 7,62mm PKT coaxial-Mg (2000 rounds) / 1x 12,7mm NSVT AA-Mg (300 rounds).

 

Shoutout to @Private_Wolk for providing the picture and additional info!

 

I personally could see the T-72S being a rank VII MBT in the German tech-tree with a BR of 10.3 or higher.

 

If you spot any mistakes, or want to add something feel free to PM me, or post it on this thread.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

Sources:

 

http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Tagebuch/Technik2000/Technik2000.html

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20150709185650/http://militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Stichworte/KomplexeThemen/TechnikUebersicht.html

http://www.nva-fahrzeuge.de/

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/t72/

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72

http://www.t-72.de/alt/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/soviet_T-72.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/125_mm_smoothbore_ammunition

https://www.quora.com/What-makes-a-T-72S-or-T-72B-different-from-other-T-72-models

https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_tank_heavy_armoured_vehicles_u/t-72b_mbt_main_battle_tank_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video_10207161.html

 

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[WulfPack 1,693]

+1 if it fights with the USSR in RB and SB

[Gault14 12]

+1

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

57 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

+1 if it fights with the USSR in RB and SB

Absolutely, I fully support a Warsaw match-maker for RB and SB.

[WulfPack 1,693]

17 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Absolutely, I fully support a Warsaw match-maker for RB and SB.

SB should be a fairly simple change, here hoping they do something. 

Also, I've seen on here that the best 125 ammo East Germany would've had would be the 3BM9 or something similar. Would you know if that's true?

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

2 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

SB should be a fairly simple change, here hoping they do something. 

Also, I've seen on here that the best 125 ammo East Germany would've had would be the 3BM9 or something similar. Would you know if that's true?

The best 125mm ammo east-Germany received until 1989 was 3BM15, though since the T-72S would have been received during the mid 90s I adjusted the ammo to be around 5-10 years older, than the tank in service, the same like 3BM15 and T-72M1.

[WulfPack 1,693]

2 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

The best 125mm ammo east-Germany received until 1989 was 3BM15, though since the T-72S would have been received during the mid 90s I adjusted the ammo to be around 5-10 years older, than the tank in service, the same like 3BM15 and T-72M1.

Ah.

[Suinaithnir 202]

Germany should be with Russians on SB, because really guys, all  fuc**** nations vs one nation?
Add chinese tree then, no sweden, and still, theres a communist germany so for me, its can be fine.
Or just make Allies vs Axis like in lower br.
Its just only game, theres no realism, theres no historicial, and SB its not a true SB so lel.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

+1

Thanks again for the shout out Stuhlfleisch. I am still collecting data on the trials as we speak. It will be very interesting to see the top NVA vehicle make it to the game some day.

 

Cameron

[SiouxsieSioux 26]

+1 I'd love to see more East German vehicles with their own matchmaking so they are teamed with the USSR in RB and sim at least.

[DreamADream4Me 2,838]

On 4. marec 2019 at 00:59, Polish_Satan said:

Germany should be with Russians on SB, because really guys, all  fuc**** nations vs one nation?
Add chinese tree then, no sweden, and still, theres a communist germany so for me, its can be fine.
Or just make Allies vs Axis like in lower br.
Its just only game, theres no realism, theres no historicial, and SB its not a true SB so lel.

 

I agree. Current lineup is BS and completely unbalanced. No wonder there is 40 players for NATO and 2-3 for USSR in top SB events. Gaijin saw the light for a while there and switched France over, but then they put their blinders back on.

[onemax9000 1,243]

+1 I support

[IStrykerI 367]

Yes only if it fights with Russia and there are more russian vehicles that only fight with Russia. This could make sim que times a lot better.

[Aerobane 4,140]

I WANT to support it so bad; however, if its only available from the German tree and it fights with the Leopards, then absolutely not.

I would support an East German mini tree similar to the helicopter trees with various east German vehicles, available at rank V from either the Soviet or German trees, but always fighting with the soviets. That offers a realistic justification for both sides. The soviets get to use them because they are ultimately soviet designs, even with East German modifications, and the Germans can spec into the warsaw pact if they want, essentially switching sides from the regular German tree to play as the East German military who vehemently oppose the West Germans. It would be fun for Germans and Soviets both, and  would help improve soviet player numbers in SB.

 

So basically I "support" this but only conditionally, I absolutely oppose its introduction into the existing German tree to fight next to leopards and against Soviet T72s and T64s, with no way for USSR players to get these Soviet based designs from the Soviet tree.

 

In fact I wonder how different that poll would look if "I support this but only if it never fights with west german vehicles in RB and SB" was an option. Right now I didn't know what to say.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Aerobane

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

5 hours ago, Aerobane said:

I WANT to support it so bad; however, if its only available from the German tree and it fights with the Leopards, then absolutely not.

I would support an East German mini tree similar to the helicopter trees with various east German vehicles, available at rank V from either the Soviet or German trees, but always fighting with the soviets. That offers a realistic justification for both sides. The soviets get to use them because they are ultimately soviet designs, even with East German modifications, and the Germans can spec into the warsaw pact if they want, essentially switching sides from the regular German tree to play as the East German military who vehemently oppose the West Germans. It would be fun for Germans and Soviets both, and  would help improve soviet player numbers in SB.

 

So basically I "support" this but only conditionally, I absolutely oppose its introduction into the existing German tree to fight next to leopards and against Soviet T72s and T64s, with no way for USSR players to get these Soviet based designs from the Soviet tree.

 

In fact I wonder how different that poll would look if "I support this but only if it never fights with west german vehicles in RB and SB" was an option. Right now I didn't know what to say.

Added a poll option! 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[DreamADream4Me 2,838]

14 hours ago, Aerobane said:

I WANT to support it so bad; however, if its only available from the German tree and it fights with the Leopards, then absolutely not.

I would support an East German mini tree similar to the helicopter trees with various east German vehicles, available at rank V from either the Soviet or German trees, but always fighting with the soviets. That offers a realistic justification for both sides. The soviets get to use them because they are ultimately soviet designs, even with East German modifications, and the Germans can spec into the warsaw pact if they want, essentially switching sides from the regular German tree to play as the East German military who vehemently oppose the West Germans. It would be fun for Germans and Soviets both, and  would help improve soviet player numbers in SB.

 

So basically I "support" this but only conditionally, I absolutely oppose its introduction into the existing German tree to fight next to leopards and against Soviet T72s and T64s, with no way for USSR players to get these Soviet based designs from the Soviet tree.

 

I quite like this idea!

[WulfPack 1,693]

9 hours ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

Added a poll option! 

Finally added my vote 

 

[IStrykerI 367]

Wish I could change my vote to the new option.

[Milocat 4,854]

+1, this would be great on an East German lineup.  

 

I say East German because I think East Germany and West Germany should really be split in all modes and trees.

[gennaroita 113]

is there an east-german air tree ? 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

14 minutes ago, gennaroita said:

is there an east-german air tree ? 

 

[Capt_JamesTKirk 1,710]

those ERA slabs look like someone just put some glue on one and slapped them somewhere.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

10 hours ago, Manfred_Albrech said:

those ERA slabs look like someone just put some glue on one and slapped them somewhere.

Haha, yeah, the mounting brackets are rather small and concealed for Russian ERA, here's some pictures of it.

 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

Added auto-loading mechanism visualisation.