premium/event tank Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire (Premium or Event tank)

[No_Camping 1,804]

Historical background
Between 1944 and 1945, FFI fighters (Forces Françaises de l'Intérieur, the reunion of the main Résistance groups) captured 59 Panther Ausf. A & G. After the end of WW2, the French Army temporarily equipped some tank units with the surviving "stolen" Panthers. 49 tanks were rehabilitated and used by various units or for experiments. In particular, the 503^e RCC (see the photo below) was partially equipped with Panther Ausf. A & G. The lack of spare parts and their obsolescence led to the abandonment of these tanks in the early '50s, the 503^e RCC receiving their ARL-44 in 1951 and their American M47 in 1953.

 

Above: Panthers A & G of the 503^e RCC after the war.
 

Above: 2 Panthers captured by the FFI in Dompaire and carrying the insignias of the France Libre (Free France). On September 12-13, 1944, after a fierce battle, the 2^nd Division Blindée (2^nd DB; attached to the US 3^rd Army) assisted by 4 raids of Thunderbolts of the US Air Force destroyed more than half of the 120 Panthers and Pz. IV of the 112^th Panzerbrigade. Several Panthers abandoned by their crews were ultimately captured by the FFI, including the Panther Ausf. G #332 that I propose to add as a Premium or an Event tank in the French tech tree (see below). See many more photographs and historical notes (some used in this post) on www.chars-francais.net, the best reference on French tanks on the Web.

 

 

The "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332
This Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire (see the historical notes above and the photos below) was displayed until 1975 at the Esplanade des Invalides in Paris. Recently restored (see also this link), it is now displayed at the Muséum des Blindés de Saumur in its original colors after its capture.

Above: the Panther Ausf. G #332 of the 112^th Panzerbrigade just after its capture in Dompaire and before receiving the insignias of the France Libre (Free France).

 

Above: The "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 displayed until 1975 at the Esplanades des Invalides in Paris.

 

Below: 3 photographs of the "Dompaire" Panther Ausf. G #332 restored in its original state after its capture by the FFI, and now displayed in Saumur.

 

Suggestion
Add the Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire as a Premium or Event tank to the French tech tree (like the Event T-V/T-5 in the Russian tech tree). In addition of filling a gap in the line of French Premium tanks (between the M4A1 (FL10) at BR 4.7 and the AMX-13 (SS11) at BR 6.7), this tank would also be valuable at the popular BR range 5.7-6.0 where there are currently only 2 tanks in the French tech tree (the ARL-44, the natural companion of a "French Panther", and the AMX-13).

Edited March 8, 2019 by No_Camping

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Lycos_Luppin 281]

As much as a like the Panther, and as legitimate this is (since our boys litteraly used these kitties longer than Germany I believe) I have to say "Please no". We already have Shermans in every trees, I don't want the Panther to be the next one (USSR have one already as you mentioned, the UK can get Cuckoo, pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to find one for the U.S...). Now, I get that it's not a problem in Arcade, and neither in RB (you can see that I have a fair amount of match in my T-V in RB, I mean I had it for free so might as well use it) but in Sim ground there is already enough "accident" due too lend-lease/captured tanks, no need to add another one. It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part. 

[No_Camping 1,804]

7 minutes ago, Lycos_Luppin said:

but in Sim ground there is already enough "accident" due too lend-lease/captured tanks, no need to add another one. It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part.  

This is not the problem of "stolen" tanks. Gaijin could simply not put stolen tanks in the list of allowed tanks in any given simulator battle events. This could actually be a valid suggestion to post in the forum...

7 minutes ago, Lycos_Luppin said:

It also diminish the unique "flavor" of each tree and that's probably the sadest part. 

Oh man, come on. Look at this tank again. It has history and plenty of "flavor" for it! 

Edited March 8, 2019 by No_Camping

[Lycos_Luppin 281]

9 minutes ago, No_Camping said:

This is not the problem of "stolen" tanks. Gaijin could simply not put stolen tanks in the list of allowed tanks in any given simulator battle events. This could actually be a valid suggestion to post in the forum...

 

That's how it was originally. Well in the case of the T-V it was, I can't remember if it also was the case for every captured tanks... I wish they would revert that change to be honest.

 

11 minutes ago, No_Camping said:

Oh man, come on. Look at this tank again. It has history and plenty of "flavor" for it! 

It has a cool story, I give you that. But beside that it's just a regular panther with a fancy camo. If it had been actually modified by french forces like the German KV with a long 75, or the russian P-40 with a Klimov instead of the Allison engine (Actually, I don't know if this one is modelled as such in game? ) I'll be all for it. You said some of these Panthers where used as testbeds, any of them with a particular feature that would make it truly unique on a gameplay point of view (and without going all Sci-Fi of course, trying to please all sides here lol)

[WiseMinerva 454]

+1 

I hav no qualms on historical foreign vehicle use. It would certainly help fill the French tech tree.

[onemax9000 1,242]

+1 here there this video talks about the French panther tanks.

 

[Soviet_Man86 12]

it is very good idea i wish they add it

[No_Camping 1,804]

I have updated the post with a poll allowing to choose between Premium/Event tank (I initially forgot to consider this possibility) or to vote against the implementation of this tank.

[No_Camping 1,804]

On 08/03/2019 at 10:13, onemax9000 said:

1 here there this video talks about the French panther tanks.

You actually see one of the photographs of the Dompaire Panther G (and A) I posted, although the video does not mention the story.

[ForeverAloneRage 130]

Spoiler

 

[No_Camping 1,804]

I did not know the photograph in the middle, probably taken shortly after the Panther got its new insignia.

Thanks @ForeverAloneRage

 

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

Would be awesome but as an event vehicle for me.

[player62514 607]

Not every bloody vehicle needs to be event only, besides, the french used their panthers longer than the germans ever did.

[No_Camping 1,804]

As a kid, I would climb over the Panther A (displayed close to the Panther G #332 on the Place des Invalides until 1975) shown in the post above by @ForeverAloneRage Good memories!

Edited June 13, 2019 by No_Camping

[TueurDeChars 10]

I'm surprised France doesn't have any captured tank available, I think every other country does, I would like to see this 1+

[No_Camping 1,804]

Premium Panther "Dauphine" (actually, probably the "Dauphiné") introduced in v1.91!

Edited August 31, 2019 by No_Camping

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

1 hour ago, No_Camping said:

Premium Panther "Dauphine" (actually, probably the "Dauphiné") introduced in v1.91!

This will go great with the ARL-44, I am most glad to see it.

[No_Camping 1,804]

The French Panther's name is indeed "Dauphiné" (a French region; most French tanks are named after cities/regions), not "Dauphine" ("heiress" in French)
The mix-up by Gaijin is that the name is written on the tank in non-accentuated capital letters (although there may be an accent on the final "E" in the picture below). It is usual in French not to put accents on capital letters.

I still think that the Panther Ausf. G #332 captured in Dompaire would have been a better choice for a Premium Panther in the French tree: better looking (see above) and with a well referenced and nice history from its capture to its display in the Jardin des Tuileries and now, in Saumur.

 

The first photograph is right after the capture of the Panther G "Dauphiné" in 1943 (before getting its French insignia an losing the German ones). The soldier with the binoculars is Captain Besnier, head of the squadron which also incorporated the Tiger I "Bretagne" (which you can guess on the left of the 4th photograph, and which is shown on the 5th)

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by No_Camping

[Arahnas 0]

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Arahnas

[Milocat 4,849]

This should be a fun vehicle to drive in the French tree!

[No_Camping 1,804]

The name of the French Panther G on the dev server is currently "Dauphine" ("heiress" in French), whereas it should be "Dauphiné" (a French region; city and region names are used to name most of French tanks, still today)
 

I found an historical notice by Michel Gautier (many new photographs in this document), following the death of Pierre Jarno in 2017 who served as the gunner on the Panther G "Dauphiné". Michel Gautier became a friend of Pierre Jarno and published "Poche de Saint-Nazaire – Neuf mois d’une guerre oubliée" (Geste Editions, 2017; The stronghold of Saint-Nazaire - 9 months of a forgotten war" - see Amazon link), relating the combat operations of the escadron Besnier. This book is based on extensive interviews of Pierre Jarno and his family and friends, among many others.

The excerpts from his book selected by the author himself to honor Pierre Jarno clearly mention Besnier and Jarno's Panther G as the "Dauphiné", named after a French province/region (see below), like all the German tanks of the Besnier squadron. I guess the gunner of the Panther G "Dauphiné" knew the name of his tank and that this book should hence be considered as an official and bullet-proof source!

 

Here are 2 excerpts from the book taken from the document I provide above (with their lose English translations) proving that the name of the Panther was indeed "Dauphiné", and not "Dauphine":
C’est à la mi-mars 1945 que Pierre Jarno devenu tankiste, accompagné de son chef Besnier, aurait le plaisir de passer aux travaux pratiques : grâce à la lunette de visée très perfectionnée de son Panther « Dauphiné », il pulvérisa de quelques obus de 75 bien ajustés un observatoire allemand...

It was in mid-March 1945 that Pierre Jarno, who had become a tanker, accompanied by his leader Besnier, would have the pleasure to do some practical work: thanks to the very sophisticated aiming scope of his Panther "Dauphiné", he fired a few well-aimed 75mm shells and destroyed a German observation post...

Ces chars d’origine allemande arborant les trois couleurs et la croix de Lorraine étaient baptisés de noms de provinces françaises, ce qui ajoutait bien sûr à l’amertume de l’ennemi.

These tanks [of the Besnier squadron] of German origin sporting the three [French] colors and the cross of Lorraine were baptized with names of French provinces/regions, which added of course to the bitterness of the enemy. [Well, I am not so sure ]

 

 

All document available on this safe Dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2klv6maceagqwxw/AACjrnkikVP59Fwem_6JL8rJa?dl=0

 

Bug report on the dev server (link will be ultimately closed)

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by No_Camping

[KnightoftheAbyss 3,386]

This has been reported folks.

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1