Experimental ammo: LAHAT for Leopard 2s

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

LAHAT ATGM for Leopard 2 MBTs

 

 

Back in 2005 in Meppen, Rheinmetall tested the capabilities of the Israeli LAHAT ATGM, which is widely used in the Merkava MBTs, for it's effectiveness when fired from a Leopard 2A4 MBT. The test trial consisted of two shots, at one stationary and one moving target at a range of 4km. Both targets were hit, with the impact remaining within 30cm of the initial laser-point. This proved, that the LAHAT missile can be effectively fired from any Leopard 2, that is equipped with a 120mm smoothbore cannon and a laser-rangefinder, since the LAHAT ATGM is laser homing, (Laser Homing Anti Tank / Attack) and therfore does not need a sophisticated ATGM-complex, like it is found on ATGM capable Soviet MBTs for example. This means the LAHAT can be successfully guided to the target, using a laser-rangefinder.

Sadly, the German government, or any country that utilizes the Leopard 2 for that matter, never adopted the ATGM and therfore the LAHAT remains an experimental ammo-type for Leopard MBTs, which works, but didn't enter service.

 

Due to a bug I can't edit this topic and the spoilers are bugged, here's the rest of the suggestion:

 

 

General Information of the LAHAT ATGM:

 

 

The LAHAT ATGM is a light-weight, laser-homing anti-tank Missile, that is developed by Israel Aerospace Industries since the 90s.

The ATGM features a tandem-warhead, which is meant to defeat simple ERA (with simple I mean ERA that is not designed to counter tandem-warheads).

 

Estimated Penetration (RHA): 800mm

Lenght: 975mm

Effective range: 8km

Overall weight (airborne): 13kg

Diameter: 105mm

Flight-speed: 300m/s

 

 

The LAHAT can also be launched out of a 120mm cannon, thanks to a "sabot", which logically increases the diameter to 120mm.

 

 

LAHAT in gun-launch cartridge

 

 

Sadly the report does not mention anything about the storage capabilities of the Leopard 2A4 in regards to the LAHAT missile, however, I personally would think, that if anything, the LAHAT would only fit into the hull ammo-stowage, since the turret stowage is only built to hold Standard lenght shells, which would be shorter than the LAHAT, this would effectively allow for a total of 26 LAHAT ATGMs to be carried inside a Leopard 2 MBT, though I could also see, that Gaijin would Limit the ammount to 5, like they did with the Soviet MBTs (T-64BV etc.)

 

All in all, I think this would make for a very interesting addition to the game and would give Leopard 2A4 and 2A5s a very versitile ammunition, though BR changes might would have to be made, in order to compensate the already good Leopard 2 MBT, now also getting an incredibly good ATGM. This is ultimately Gaijin's choice, to decide how this would be handled.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

If you spot a mistake, or want to add/correct something, just let me know.

 

Cheers!

 

Sources:

 

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=4135

https://www.defencetalk.com/gun-launched-laser-homing-weapon-system-lahat-for-leopard-2-tanks-7970/

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/5/30975.pdf

https://militaryleak.com/2018/07/11/lahat-laser-homing-anti-tank/

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/laser-homing-attack-missile/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAHAT

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/73901/laser_guided-missile-offered-for-leopard-tanks.html

Edited April 20, 2019 by Stuhlfleisch

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

6 minutes ago, ItssLuBu said:

Approved and open for discussion. 

Thanks alot!

Short question though, for some reason I cannot fix the spoiler, I can't type in it and I can't edit anything inside of it. Do you know how I can resolve this issue?

[gojuancamilo@psn 307]

Very interesting, although sadly it may not be implemented due to it's "experimental" nature.

[WulfPack 1,693]

Perhaps only for the 2A5. This would be a relative equal to the 9M119M1 used by the T-90A and what not.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

5 hours ago, WulfPack said:

Perhaps only for the 2A5. This would be a relative equal to the 9M119M1 used by the T-90A and what not.

That would be a possibility, Gaijin would have to decide on that, since it's a bit of a tricky one with any experimental ammo.

[kamikazi21358 998]

From my understanding, there are prototypes in between the Leopard 2A4 and 2A5?  If in the future, we get to this point, we could have a prototype premium Leopard 2, and the missile could be available for it.  I just don’t feel like it should be a main tech tree, main leopard munition because of it’s experimental nature.

[Zucc_Boi 656]

The Merkava tanks also don't use the LAHAT, and at best would only have deployed with them for a short period of time. Today you won't find it in any tank, or probably any ammunition warehouse, and the common tankie wouldn't even know what you're talking about.

It was developed to defeat Soviet tanks at a range where the main gun's kinetic ammo is no longer effective (maximum range is 8km, while kinetic ammo is effective at most at 3km or usually at 2km).

But this threat very quickly faded away, and a different missile already entered service in the IDF for the same purpose - the Spike, which had a substantially longer range.

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

20 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

The Merkava tanks also don't use the LAHAT, and at best would only have deployed with them for a short period of time. Today you won't find it in any tank, or probably any ammunition warehouse, and the common tankie wouldn't even know what you're talking about.

It was developed to defeat Soviet tanks at a range where the main gun's kinetic ammo is no longer effective (maximum range is 8km, while kinetic ammo is effective at most at 3km or usually at 2km).

But this threat very quickly faded away, and a different missile already entered service in the IDF for the same purpose - the Spike, which had a substantially longer range.

The point still stands, it was tested on a Leopard 2, it worked, so it has a chance to be added into the game. Just because equipment is not in service anymore today, or the threat it was designed to counter has passed, does not mean, that it is exempt from being added to War Thunder.

 

The Me 262 was developed to counter allied bombers, so does it have to be removed from the game, because Germany is no longer at risk from allied bombing raids? Of course not!

Because if we adopt this logic, all vehicles, ammo amd equipment that isn't in service today, would have to me removed from War Thunder...

[Gavin_Mactavish 943]

I can see the US hard-core complaining about the 2a5 is this gets in though....

17 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

The Me 262 was developed to counter allied bombers, so does it have to be removed from the game, because Germany is no longer at risk from allied bombing raids? Of course not!

Dont forget gaijin went to the extent of inventing the R2Y2s....

[HUNterG 5]

It would be good if the developers would implement this ammo, as against airborne threats the top german mediums are very vulnerable. While almost any other nations sport 12.7mm machine gun or ATGM ammo. :P

[stefffff1871 2,448]

hm now i am unsure what to answer. i dont like prototype-vehicles in general, but gaijin still adds them, so technically actually used vehicle could get experimental ammo to counter the experimental tanks itself

[Capt_JamesTKirk 1,710]

+1 for Leo 2a4 and 2a5 as modification.

[Rohrkrepiererer 1,393]

Nope, do not want to see this added. I would prefer it if all vehicles only used ammunition that they were fielded with in real life. A great part of balancing that out would be increasing the average engagement distances on the maps in high tiers in order to make armor and ammunition more valuable again.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Rohrkrepiererer

[MandolinMagi 603]

10 hours ago, Rohrkrepiererer said:

Nope, do not want to see this added. I would prefer it if all vehicles only used ammunition that they were fielded with in real life. A great part of balancing that out would be increasing the average engagement distances on the maps in high tiers in order to make armor and ammunition more valuable again.

Yeah. You add LAHAT, the US has no reason not to get STAFF, and 4km fire-and-forget top-attack rounds in standard shell size is a can of worms you don't want to open

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

On 15/03/2020 at 10:44, MandolinMagi said:

Yeah. You add LAHAT, the US has no reason not to get STAFF, and 4km fire-and-forget top-attack rounds in standard shell size is a can of worms you don't want to open

So keywords like "top-attack" and "fire-and-forget" are not valid reasons to not that round?

 

+1 for LAHAT from me

Edited March 19, 2022 by L963

[Milocat 4,854]

On 05/04/2019 at 01:21, kamikazi21358 said:

From my understanding, there are prototypes in between the Leopard 2A4 and 2A5?  If in the future, we get to this point, we could have a prototype premium Leopard 2, and the missile could be available for it.  I just don’t feel like it should be a main tech tree, main leopard munition because of it’s experimental nature.

 

^ This.