Geschützwagen Tiger (Grille 17)

[Firnen_ 8,253]

Disclaimer: This topic is a repost because it fell victim to the "purge" that happened earlier this year to tidy up the suggestion forum. So if you had already voted or posted your opinion on the old topic, please do so again! Sorry for the inconvenience!

 

READ BEFORE VOTING: This tank WILL NOT be used for indirect fire. It WILL NOT have the birds eye view it has in WoT. It is just a regular direct fire TD.

 

Hello! 

 

All the way back in the ancient times of 2016, the German ground forces tree received a second tank destroyer line, featuring lightly armoured, open-topped TDs with very powerful guns, like the Panzerjäger 1 or the Nashorn. Over the years, many other vehicles were added to the line, but not the ultimate open-topped tank destroyer, that from the old topic I know many are still eager to see: The Geschützwagen Tiger!

 

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The Geschützwagen Tiger was a prototype artillery piece built by the Germans at the end of World War 2, but like a lot of German artillery, it was capable of direct fire. It was, as the name suggests, based on the hull of a Tiger II and armed with huge 17 cm K72 L/50 cannon. The hull of the Tiger II was extended and it's armour was reduced, since having a heavily armoured artillery unit was kind of pointless. So the vehicle only featured up to 30 mm of frontal hull armour, with the superstructure being only 16 mm thick at the front and the top and parts of the rear being completely unprotected. This would perfectly fit the type of tanks in the line as they also have very thing armor. The crew consisted of seven to eight man. One prototype was built and mostly finished before the end of the war, it even underwent driving trials, although the gun was never mounted (The gun did exist however, as a 17cm field gun):

 

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The hull as it was captured by the Americans:

 

The gun and its iconic muzzle break:

 

The 170 mm gun was capable of firing both APHE (with an impressive HE filler of 2 kg of explosives!) and HE shells:

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AP:

HE:

The penetration the gun could achieve against a 30° angled test target at various ranges (the line at the top):

 

Using the penetration formula Gaijin implemented some time ago gives the armour piercing projectile a penetration of 303 mm against flat homogeneous armour.

 

Some technical data provided by @KorEEnium ("Panzer Tracts No.10"), this includes armour, gun elevation and depression, and mobility:

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More data provided by @Cpl_Stalinium ("Dokumentation W127"), which finally told us what optics the vehicles used in direct fire mode, confirming it was capable to do so. It also confirms the armour values from above:

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And yet another source, basically once again conforming the above and adding some more detail, provided by @HERTZMAND and @Deadmmann ("Überschwere Panzerprojekte, Konzepte und Entwürfe der Wehrmacht'', Michael Fröhlich):

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All in all, this vehicle has a lot of weaknesses. It is weak to any incoming fire, especially aircraft, it isn't particularly mobile, it would likely get quite a long reload (though maybe not as long as you might think, it has 8 crew members after all) and a very low ammunition complement of only 7 rounds (8 if you count the one which could be loaded in the breach at the beginning of the battle). Its main advantage would be the insanely good gun which should have no trouble whatsoever taking apart every enemy you meet in one shot. So where would I place this vehicle? I would suggest putting it at tier 4 after the Waffenträger, with a BR of around 6.3 for a start. Of course, adjustment to that can always be made after it was implemented as well. Alternatively, an implementation as an event vehicle is possible, similarly to the Lorraine 155.

 

So, would you like to see the GW Tiger be added to the game? Please vote, and leave your opinion in the comments bellow! Any additional information on the vehicle is of course always welcome as well! 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Firnen_

[Princess_Pinch 5,625]

Für Diskussionen geöffnet. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Princess_Pinch

[Milocat 4,854]

+1 to this vehicle, it would be a great tank destroyer with the 170mm cannon.  It was almost completely built before capture and the cannon existed so it wasn't prevented from entering service for any technical or design problems.  Plus I just think that another tank destroyer on a King Tiger hull would be great.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Milocat

[super_cacti 1,071]

You got my full support for this beast!

 

+1 

[Ghostmaxi 873]

Yay I had the wiSh for it in general and discussion xD and someone did it

also only 6 shots is no problem , the su8 5 or something has 8 shots 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ghostmaxi

[super_cacti 1,071]

11 hours ago, Ghostmaxi said:

Yay I had the wiSh for it in general and discussion xD and someone did it

also only 6 shots is no problem , the su8 5 or something has 8 shots 

In case of that 170mm gun......6 shots means 6 kills 

[Xenecrite 899]

I found that for you in one of my magazines that I have in my possession

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Source:TnT N°39 La Chasse aux Titans du III. Reich

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[Ghostmaxi 873]

looks cool af , i mean nice , that gun with an autoloader in a Maus would be funny

 

[Milocat 4,854]

13 hours ago, super_cacti said:

In case of that 170mm gun......6 shots means 6 kills 

 

Yeah, I think it would still be alright for the game.  

 

However, as I remember, the old version of this suggestion had another variant of this vehicle with a 210mm cannon that could only carry 4(?) rounds, and I suggested not to have that one because I figured one Geschutzwagen Tiger would be enough and the one with more ammo would be more useful  

[Firnen_ 8,253]

1 minute ago, Milocat said:

However, as I remember, the old version of this suggestion had another variant of this vehicle with a 210mm cannon that could only carry 4(?) rounds, and I suggested not to have that one because I figured one Geschutzwagen Tiger would be enough and the one with more ammo would be more useful  

 

I never included the 21cm version in the main suggestion, but people brought it up in the comments. I agree that we should get the 17cm version. All the problems the 17cm version has only get worse on the 21cm version, and the advantages are not really there to justify it. Apart from that the 17cm version is also more realistic in my opinion. If a full vehicle had been completed, it would have had the 17cm gun, not the 21cm.

[igeticsu 3,400]

Yes, Gib. This would be an awesome addition to the game.

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

+1 to event vehicle

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

I supported it then and I‘m supporting it now. Give me the 170mm "I win" button!

+1

[HERTZMAND 3,260]

+1 as event vehicle!  

The pages from 70 to 89 of ''Überschwere Panzerprojekte Konzepte und Entwürfe der Wehrmacht'' of Michael Fröhlich talk about this vehicle and gun. The pages 72 and 73 have some good tables: anyone have the screens of this pages? @super_cacti IIRC you have this book 

 

 

P.S. a nice 3D model of the vehicle 

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https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/captured-geschutzwagen-tiger-model-1254510

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by HERTZMAND

[Firnen_ 8,253]

The model is actually made by a WT player, @SchurzenJager

https://live.warthunder.com/post/703874/en/

[HERTZMAND 3,260]

"ÜberschwerePanzerprojekte Konzepte und Entwürfe der Wehrmacht'' by Michael Fröhlich 

Page 72

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Page 73

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A a big thanks to @Deadmmann for the photos!

[Firnen_ 8,253]

On 07/08/2019 at 10:49, HERTZMAND said:

"ÜberschwerePanzerprojekte Konzepte und Entwürfe der Wehrmacht'' by Michael Fröhlich 

Page 72

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Page 73

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A a big thanks to @Deadmmann for the photos!

 

Added to the first post, thank you! 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Firnen_

[Ryan_King 907]

Gaijin really should add it at the final of the Open TD Line

 

[kamikazi21358 998]

Although a 17.3cm L/50 would be nice to have like 400mm APHECBC penetration or whatever it would be, I don’t think it’s coming.  Now that the other fantasy vehicles are gone, the fact that this wasn’t completed I think means it’s chances of coming are very low.

[Wolf_89 2,525]

Perfect event vehicle. But i would not say no to see this in the TT

[Solarmod 1,203]

Personally forgot to 1+ this when I joined in the forums. I love this vehicle as a concept, and it's funny looking to boot.

[Gebafado_BR 12]

Yes, The GW tiger was intended to be a moving artillery, the E-100 was not 100 % completed in war never saw service, now it sits as, "One issue" there is no avaible space in tetch tree for a beast like that I rather have this veicle as a purchasable vehicle like the king tiger with addon armour, the jagdtiger (Porshe) suspention is coming maybe. The GW Tiger would maybe be in the market for balance in game but not in the main tetch tree. GAIJIN BALANCE. 

The tank wasn't in that condition,  that was only a chassi sitting outside,  here is the inside of the gw tiger there was more than one 

 

 

 

[Gebafado_BR 12]

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[PrussianOwl 440]

I like the idea, but it might not get added because the Coelian had all of its parts made but it wasn't 100% assembled.