Chinese Gladiator Mk I "Named" Premiums, John "Buffalo" Wong and Arthur "Art" Chin as Potential Candidates

[ProfSc 5]

Good afternoon! 

 

As a descendant of one of the Chinese American aviators who ultimately joined the Republic of China Air Force (ROCAF) in the 1930s, I am very excited to see the inclusion of the Gladiator Mk I to the Chinese aviation tree. It has a special place of importance for me as my grandfather (who was Adjutant General of the Kwangtung/Guandong Air Force in 1931 and served as a flight instructor both for the Kwangtun/Guandong Air Force and later on for ROCAF in 1935) served on an aircraft purchasing committee in 1932, which was sent to London, England, and I cannot help but wonder if he played a part in obtaining Gladiators for the Kwantung/Guandong Provincial Air Force (which was later incorporated into ROCAF)—my father says he went to a British aircraft company production facility but is unsure of which manufacturer in particular.  

 

As it is an early tier aircraft, I believe that it is an excellent candidate to be one of the "named" premiums that already exist on other aviation trees. For example, the American tree has "Thach's F2A-1," the German tree has "Flegel's Bf 109 A," and the British tree has "Tuck's Gladiator Mk II." 

 

As all of the above examples are premium planes that help introduce players into a tree, I think it would be fitting for the Chinese aviation tree to have similar early-tier premiums. For the Gladiator specifically, there are two main candidates according to Wikipedia: John "Buffalo" Wong and Arthur "Art" Chin. 

 

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find much information on John "Buffalo" Wong and would appreciate any assistance. (Edit: A biography featuring John "Buffalo" Wong was actually posted on these forums back in 2015) Arthur "Art" Chin, on the other hand, has fairly extensive documentation.   

 

For quick reference:

 

His Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Chin 

An entry on his life and achievements on the Federal Aviation Administration's website: https://www.faa.gov/about/history/pioneers/media/Arthur_Chin.pdf

Here is a longer article on his life: https://disciplesofflight.com/world-war-2-flying-ace-arthur-chin/ 

A re-post from these forums in 2015: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/101903-less-known-aces/&do=findComment&comment=4687524

Another web page featuring Arthur "Art" Chin. This one includes a list of his claimed kills and related information: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/china_chin.htm

Arthur "Art" Chin's page on CNAC.org, which primarily details his time as a CNAC pilot: http://www.cnac.org/artchin01.htm 

 

 

In the event that these men and their contributions to early Chinese aviation are not already being considered for early Chinese premiums, I certainly hope that these are suitable suggestions. Both of these pilots represent not only some of the first Chinese fighter aces, but Arthur "Art" Chin is recognized as the first American ace of the Second World War. Furthermore, they represent a legacy of those Chinese Americans who learned how to fly and journeyed back to China in its hour of need in the 1920s and 1930s, making contributions in leadership and heroism. Additionally, Arthur Chin, after becoming an ace and sustaining substantial burn injuries, continued in service to China by flying for the Chinese National Aviation Corporation (CNAC) to help maintain the flow of vital materials over the "hump," which became even more critical after the fall of the Burma Road. 

 

The most difficult part is determining proper attribution to which Gladiators were actually piloted by these men, respectively. There are a number of images and images of models on the Internet associating Arthur Chin with a particular Gladiator.

 

Source: https://www.redbubble.com/people/ah-aviation-art/works/28912916-major-arthur-art-chin?p=poster 

 

 

Source: https://waihobbies.wkhc.net/index.php/35-models/sky/world-war-2/81-gloster-gladiator-mk-i-roden

(The web page this was featured on shows that it was obtainable through the November 2008, Volume 30, Number 9 issue of Scale Aircraft Modeling)

 

As for John "Buffalo" Wong, this image was among the best I could find: 

Source: http://www.chinaww2.com/2014/11/28/soaring-dragon/

 

Edit Patch 1.91: 

 

So it would appear that Major Arthur "Art" Chin's Gladiator from the 28th Pursuit Squadron was selected as the stock model for the Gladiator Mk 1! 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by ProfSc

[blaZzinG_FurY@psn 298]

Open for discussion

[Milocat 4,848]

Either of these pilots' vehicles would be a great named premium for the Chinese tree.  +1.

[cfracas 1,708]

The one of Major Arthur "Art" Chin would be nice but Gaijin already put suck skin in regular tree.

To have Chin's plane as premium they should replace skin of the Gladiator in regular tree.

 

My choice for a premium plane in rank 1 would be the H-75H flown by Claire Lee Chennault for the following reasons:

- he founded AVG

- model 75H has been a unique plane

- it was probably the only hawk 75 in China armed with 1x12.7 + 3x7.62

- it was overpainted in a strange dark green, probably the same green tone visible on the default skin of P-40E in regular tree.

 

EDIT :

Another choice could be Hawk III flown by Kao Chi-Hang because of different armament versus plane actually premium (2x7.62mm).

The Hawk III has been used mainly from China so it represent China better than Gladiator... probably would have had more sense to have a regular AND a premium Hawk III in chinese tech tree. (scan taken by Osprey book dedicated to Chinese aces)

Edited September 13, 2019 by cfracas

[seadogpirate@psn 888]

both +1

[CaID 8,992]

What we have in game is a regular british Gloster Gladiator Mk.I whith only a reskin. Nothing to do with the chinese one or even less with the Modified one used by Arthur Chin.

 

This skin problem is easily solve by just removing the serial on the skin and leave it a simple generic green skin like any researchable vehicles.

 

First of all the Chinese used the Gladiator Mk.I but not exactly the same as UK. They was order and shiped to china for been assembled there and used as fighter. But the central gouvernment was struggleling in this lack of standarization coming right out of the warlord and province each had ordered their own planes wich make the chinese aviation of 1937/1938 having many fighter who essentially was doing the same thing. To avoid even more unnessessairy logistic complication, the Vickers 7.7mm machine-gun was never used in the Gladiator in china. Instant they used the 7.62mm M1919 machine-gun like most of their fighter used.

 

Arthure chin was flying a Hawk II in 1937. Plane which he fight the japanese, manage to shutdown a few japanese with and crashed in a field after been damage. A very good story who was surprisely related in many source is Chin had found back his plane after been parachuted and inspecting the wreckage, he manage to recover one of the machine-gun who was still in working condition. Carrying the weapon, he walked 8miles to reach his airfield and presenting the machine-gun to Chernault, he said "Sir, i want a new aircraft for my machine-gun" this detail of history was actually reported in both Chin and Chernault's account which make it likely truth.

 

As result Chin received the command of a chinese Gladiator who was been newly put into services to balence the heavy lost of Hawk II and Hawk III who was at the time the bulk of chinese fighter. It is unsure if he actually make the machine-gun installed on his new plane but the chinese only mounted the M1919 on their Gladiator. But Chin had experience in fighting japanese and despite to have a way underperforming plane he had manage to shutdown some japanese on his how. That with the relation with chernault who wasn't speaking chinese and Chin speaking perfectly english, he got some flexibility for modificating his new plane. Visiting the wrekage of a I-15bis who was just coming into services in china along with 450 russian volunteer, he salvaged a piece of scrap who is likely to had been the 8mm armored plate used behind the pilote sit as he indeed had put this "scrap metal" behind his sit for giving himself protection.

 

Turned out it was wise as he himself recal hearing multiple bullet hitting the plate while he was fighting the Japanese AM5 . if this fact is truth, then Arthur chin would probably had been dead if it was not for his modification and maybe he would never had manage to shutdown even more japanese plane making him an acknowledged chinese Ace. 

 

As for my opinion, the Gladiator used by arthur chin is not yet in game and should be. Giving it the right gun, the armored plate behind the site and you have a Premium plane who would be actually different from the researchable one (who should also get the M1919 but not the armored plate)

[CaID 8,992]

On 13/09/2019 at 04:56, cfracas said:

 

EDIT :

Another choice could be Hawk III flown by Kao Chi-Hang because of different armament versus plane actually premium (2x7.62mm).

The Hawk III has been used mainly from China so it represent China better than Gladiator... probably would have had more sense to have a regular AND a premium Hawk III in chinese tech tree. (scan taken by Osprey book dedicated to Chinese aces)

The Hawk II and Hawk III was usually having the two 7.62 mm gun but could used a 12.7 mm along with the 7.62mm. But there is no clear record china mounted the 12.7mm on the Hawk II or III. Only i suspect that Chin's Hawk II had a 12.7mm and a 7.62mm. 

 

But yeah, the Hawk III make more sense as regular plane than premium. The Hawk II as well (posibly reserve) but the Gladiator should stay in the research line. We could give other alternative to replace the premium plane. The AW16 or the 12.7mm version of the Hawk II and Hawk III for exemple. 

 

Personally i want the Hawk II and Hawk III very bad in the same line as the Gladiator then going to the Hawk 75 before going through the flying tiger plane and naturally Taiwanese fighter. While the other line built up with the Russian planes and get to the mainland chinese fighter. 

[leroyonly 4,310]

As the Gloster Gladiator Mk. I as flown by Arthur "Art" Chin has been previously implemented,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.