McDonnell Douglas F-4J Phantom II - The Last of the Saga

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,349]

Welcome to the suggestion of the F-4J, the best Phantom of the USN, and the best F-4 the US had for air-to-air combat, outclassing even the F-4E.

 

Speaking at the current time frame, this sounds like (at least to me) a rank VII jet, given its avionics and missile options. This would likely go head-to-head with things like the MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML, but for the sake of suggesting for the far future (or so), I'm going to do it.

 

Courtesy to @RanchSauce39 for providing these sources  

 

 

Quick overview:

 

 

Spoiler

 

The F-4J is the last and best USN F-4 Phantom modification, and the best F-4 for air-to-air combat the United States in the US inventory. Work on the F-4J began in parallel with the F-4D for the USAF.

 

It was equipped with later variants of the AIM-7 and AIM-9, was equipped with the pulse-doppler AN/APG-59 radar and more powerful engines than its predecessors. 

 

(YF-4J prototype)

 

 

History, design and development:

 

 

Spoiler

 

The latest modification of the F-4 aircraft, mass-produced for the Navy and the United States Naval Forces, was the F-4J. Taking into account the experience in the creation and operation of the F-4B and F-4C, in 1963, the command of the Navy drafted requirements for a new version of the fighter. Work on the new version began in parallel with work on the F-4D for the Air Force.

Three production aircraft F-4B was converted into a prototype YF-4J. The first flight of the YF-4J took place on June 4, 1964. And on May 27, 1966, the first production F-4J came off the runway. Serial production was carried out in 1966 to January 1972. In total, 522 F-4J fighters were produced.

 

The aircraft were equipped with new engines J79-GE-10, with a thrust of 8119 kgf on afterburner. Due to the increased weight, the F-4J received reinforced main landing gear, which could withstand the touch of the deck with a vertical speed of 7.1 m/s, and larger wheels, which led to an increase in the wing wells, and were covered with convex fairings on the upper and lower surfaces wing, similar to the F-4C. At the rear of the fuselage placed a fuel tank, bringing the internal fuel supply to 7565 liters. However, due to the increased volume of electronic equipment, it was necessary to slightly reduce the fuel tank.

 

One of the wishes of the Navy was to improve the take-off and landing characteristics of the Phantom. McDonnell specialists decided to make a gap along the front edge of the stabilizer. This measure made it possible to significantly increase the efficiency of horizontal plumage at low speeds, as well as get rid of shadowing at large angles of attack. Slats fixed in the released position. Another innovation was the lowering of the ailerons by 16.5 ailerons when releasing the landing gear and flaps, which gave the wing additional load-bearing properties. As a result of the measures taken, the landing speed decreased from 250 km / h to 230 km / h.

The equipment was also amended. F-4J aircraft received the new AN / AJB-7 bombing system, which provided all-round use of nuclear and conventional bombs. Equipment was also installed that allowed the use of the AGM-12 Bullpup air-to-ground missile. The weapon control system was replaced by the AN/AWG-10, integrated with Westinghouse's AN/APG-59 Pulse-Doppler radar. The new radar was able to effectively detect and track low-flying targets against the backdrop of land or sea. The equipment of the equipment was added one-way data transmission AN/ASW-25, which allowed to land on an aircraft carrier in automatic mode. The thermal station under the radar fairing was abolished.

 

A number of improvements were made already in the course of mass production. So, starting in 1966, an advanced target designation mode for the AIM-9 SD (Sidewinder Expanded Acquisition Mode) was added to the LMS, which made it possible to fully use the new AIM-9 variants. Starting with series 45 and 46, the aircraft received the VTAS helmet-mounted target designation system. Later, they began to install the AN/ALQ-126 REB system, with antennas that were located in narrow oblong fairings on the upper part of the air intakes and in small fairings under the air intakes. An AN/APR-32 exposure warning system and an AN / ALE-35 thermal false-target shooting system were also installed. To increase efficiency in close air combat, the aircraft received AN / AYK-14 fire lead calculators. In addition, the friend-or-foe system was replaced on AN / APX-76 or -89. The GVR-10 gyro-vertical was introduced into the navigation equipment. In order to leave the aircraft in emergency situations, Martin-Baker ejection seats of the “0-0” class were installed. The on-board network was modified by installing two AC converters with a capacity of 30 kVA each.

 

The combat units of the Navy F-4J began to arrive in October 1966, and in the ILC in June 1967. F-4J fighters were heavily used in Vietnam during operations операций Rolling Thunder and Linebacker. On the 11th of October, 1972, an F-4J from VFMA-333, piloted by Major Thomas Lassett and Captain John Coamings, shot down a MiG-21, winning the only aerial victory of the US Marine Corps for the entire Vietnam war.

 

In January 1969, seven modified F-4Js entered the Blue Angels aerobatic team, which flew them until the end of 1973.

Several modified F-4Js, under the designation EF-4J, were used in the VAQ-33 as simulators of enemy jamming aircraft.

 

During the Falkland conflict, to recover a decline due to the participation of combat aircraft in combat defenses, the UK received fifteen F-4Js. The aircraft, which were located at the Davis-Montan storage and preservation base, were carefully checked. Some of the equipment specific to the US Navy was replaced with British systems. Aircraft under the designation F-4J (UK) were delivered to England since August 1984.

 

In the mid-1970s, the F-4J began to withdraw from service the units of the Navy, gradually replacing it with an F-14 fighter. Many F-4Js were replaced by F-4Ns, which were modernized F-4Bs. A substantial portion of the retired F-4Js are currently stored at the Davis Montan base. However, about 250 aircraft were finalized in the F-4S version and returned to service. In the early 1980s, almost all F-4Js were retired. The last user was the VF-74 squadron, which finally replaced the F-4J with the F-4S in 1982. In parts of the US Marine Corps, the F-4Js began to be retired in the late 1970s and early 1980s, replacing them with the F-4S.

 

 

 

Design (more detail):

 

 

Spoiler

 

"I was an MOS 6657, airborne missile fire control technician on F-4J and F-4S Phantom II's during my six-year tour in the Marine Corps.

In the top photo, the radar antenna (LRU-1, LRU=Line Replaceable Unit)) has no IFF antennas (Identification, Friend or Foe). On the port side of the antenna (or right side as you're looking at it) is a rectangular funnel-shaped object, which is the CW illuminator feedhorn. The main KPA (Klystron Power Amplifier) is 1525 watts, and the CW illuminator KPA is around 900 watts. It was necessary to provide the illuminator KPA for the AIM-7 Sparrow missiles' guidance, as even though the illuminator KPA was rated at a much lower power than the main KPA, the most the main KPA could be on for TX/RX was less than a 50% duty cycle, reducing it's effective power to well below that of the CW KPA. Signal from the CW KPA was also fed via coaxial cable to the rear of the four onboard missile stations, for the Sparrows to get a "lock" on. Early Sparrows had mechanical tuners, which were problematic; one ordinance technican found that you could get them "unstuck" using a large hammer, which action caused the rest of us more cautious and sane types to scatter in all directions.

The APG-59/AWG-10 radar had three basic modes:
1) Short Pulse - a 0.65 uSEC pulse triggered the transmitter to send out the same length pulse. This was the 10 NM mode.

2) Chirp - A 0.65 uSEC pulse was sent through a "delay line" - basically, an inductor which was grounded on one end. This caused the inductor to "ring" as a struck bell, and would cause the transmitter to fire for approximately 65 uSEC. Upon returning, the signal would be fed back across this same delay line, which would compress the pulse back down to about 0.8 uSEC pulsewidth prior to being fed to the receiver (LRU-2A8, bottom starboard side). This meant a slight loss in resolution, but a huge gain in range due to the increased return signal.

3) Pulsed Doppler - the most powerful mode. The transmitter would fire for approximately 40 uS, and then the system would receive for approximately 40 uS. The PRF (Pulse Repetition Frequency) would be varied constantly to avoid a phenomenon known as "target eclipsing" (when the transmitter is on while the return signal comes back.)

Back to the LRU-1 photo at the top: Notice that there is a rectangular panel about 1/3 of the way down the antenna? That is the Beam Spoiler, and was used for PPI/MAP mode (Plan Position Indicator) - it would extend about 1" to "spoil" the radiation pattern to scan the ground. On the scope, the sweep would scan back and fourth 120º (+-60º) and the bottom of the scan would be fixed, the top (furthest away) would look like a Japanese fan, or a section of pie, if you will.

In combat modes, the sweep was vertical, traversing the entire screen.

In the 2nd picture, the eight black T-shaped items on the front of the antenna are IFF antennas. They are white on one end (the top) of the "T" to indicate the polarity of the antenna; as putting some of them on backwards would foul up the signal.

The feedhorn is the long projection from the center of the antenna. At the forward end, there are thin fiberglass covers epoxied over the feedhorn, enabling the waveguide system to be pressurized with dry air to 14 lbs/in2 so that the RF energy wouldn't arc (short out) in the waveguide. The feedhorn directed the transmitted energy back against the dish, and received the signal the same way. When the RIO (Radar Intercept Officer) initiated a lock, the feedhorn support would begin to rotate at 66 RPM, causing slight rotational shifts in the position of the feedhorn; this was known as "nutating the feedhorn." This shifting would cause the radar to "paint a donut" around the target. The radar would detect the difference in signal return around the "donut", and re-orient the antenna so that the signal strength was equal all around.

The antenna was controlled by servos and resolvers, but driven by hydraulic pressure. The Phantom's hydraulic system was pressurized to 3,000 PSI, but the antenna's supply was regulated down to 1,200 PSI.

Of all the radars' modes, PD (Pulse Doppler) was the mode that was the hardest to get used to, and somewhat more difficult to fix.

In PD mode, targets were not displayed in range, but in terms of closing velocity, or Vc! Targets near the top of the scope were closing very rapidly, while targets near the bottom were going away. The range was about 1,600 knots closing to about 500 opening. In order to determine the range, the pilot or RIO would have to lock on to the target, and then a range gate would appear as a blip to show range.

The AWG-10A was a big improvement; LRU's 15,16,and 17 (analog computers) in the turtleback (panel 19 behind the RIO) were changed, the new LRU's 15 and 16 were digital, LRU-17 deleted. The analog
version described the missile's envelope as a truncated cone, which was grossly inadequate. The AWG-10A's missile envelope was more like a mushroom, if you will - and much more accurately described the lethal zone of the missiles.

Back to the 2nd picture: the "6" equipment rack is down. LRU-6A2 is on the bottom, LRU-6A1 on top. The 6A1 dealt mostly with antenna control, the 6A2 with the CW illuminator.

To the left (forward) is the "5" equipment rack, and just behind the X-frame is the "4" equipment rack.
On the top of the "4" rack is LRU 4A1, down from there is LRU-4A2, and on the bottom is the LRU-4A3
Inside the LRU-4A2 are 290 crystal ovens, each a different frequency, which resonated to signal returns in the PD mode, thus giving the Vc (velocity closing) range (roughly -500kts to 1500kts)

I realize now that I misspoke in my prior post - it was the 4A1A7 board, not the 4A3A7, that needed to be changed for frequency selection. The 4A3A7 board had it's own problems - there was a block of Zener diodes, which if blown, would cause an effect known as "picket fencing" on the display; the PRF would change every 60 ms causing the display to have vertical streaks on it.

VTAS - (Visual Target Acquisition System) In later versions, VTAS was implemented. The pilot wore a special helmet with four IR transmitters on it, and there were IR receivers mounted around the pilot's cockpit. The pilot's helmet had a reticle; he would extend it over his right eye, and look at the target while pressing half-action on the acquisition switch on his stick. The radar would sweep out in range, and acquire the target. As far as I can remember, this only worked in 10-mile range, or "short pulse". But, like I said - it's been a long time since I've worked on them."

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/awg-10-wcs-and-apg-59-radar.26563/#post-14933

 

 

 

 

Internal Components:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Cockpit:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Camouflages:

 

Spoiler

 

F-4J from VF-11, aircraft carrier Forrestal, 1976

 

 F-4J from VF-21, Ranger aircraft carrier, 1978

 

 F-4J from VF-33, Independence aircraft carrier, 1975

 

 F-4J from VF-41, aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, 1975

 

 F-4J from VF-74, aircraft carrier Karl Nimitz, 1976

 

 F-4J from VF-103, aircraft carrier "Constellation", 1976

 

 F-4J from VF-161, aircraft carrier Saratoga, 1971

 

 F-4J from VF-213, Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier, 1972

 

F-4J from VMFA-115, 1976

 

 F-4J from VMFA-312, 1976

 

 F-4J from VMFA-333, aircraft carrier America, 1972

 

 F-4J from VMFA-334, Vietnam, Danang Air Base, 1968

 

 

 

Specifications

 

 

Spoiler

 

McDonnell Douglas F-4J Phantom II

 

General Characteristics

 

First flight: 27th of May, 1966

Number built: 522

Role: Fighter / Interceptor

Status: Production, canceled

Crew: 2

Length: 17.77 m (58.3 ft)

Wingspan: 11.73 m (38.5 ft)

Wing area: 49.24 m² (530 ft²)

Height: 4.93 m (16.3 ft)

Empty weight: 13,960.6 kg (30,778 lbs)

Basic weight: 14,141.2 kg (31,176 lbs)

Design weight: 26,081.5 kg (57,500 lbs)

Combat weight: 18,902.5 kg (41,673 lbs)

Max. takeoff weight: 

• Field: 25,401 kg (56,000 lbs)
• Catapult: 25,401 kg (56,000 lbs)

Max. landing weight:

• Field: 20,865 kg (46,000 lbs)
• Arrest: 18,143.7 kg (40,000 lbs)

Powerplant: 2 x General Electric J79-GE-8B afterburning turbojets:

• w/o afterburners: 5,384 kgf (52.8 kN, 11,870 lbf) (each), 10,768.3 kgf (105.6 kN, 23,740 lbf) (total)
• with afterburners: 8,119 kgf (79.62 kN, 17,900 lbf) (each), 16,238.6 kgf (159.24 kN, 35,800 lbf) (total)

Fuel capacity: 7,484 liters (1,977.064 US gal, 1,646.25 Imp gal)

 

 

Performance

 

Maximum speed:

• at sea level: 1,408 km/h (875 mph, 760 kts)
• at 10,668 m (35,000 ft): 2,549 km/h (1,584 mph, 1,376 kts)

Cruise speed: 907.5 km/h (564 mi, 490 kts) (avg.)

Stall speed: 253.5 km/h (156.7 mph, 137 kts)

Rate of climb: 209.6 m/s (687.6 ft/s) (full power)

Time to 6,100 m (20,000 ft): 1.96 min

Time to 9,144 m (30,000 ft): 2.7 min

Service ceiling: 16,672 m (54,700 ft)

Combat ceiling: 21,336 m (70,000 ft)

Combat range: 959 km (596 mi, 518 nmi)

Max. range: 3,148 km (1,956 mi, 1,700 nmi)

Takeoff roll: 

• Calm weather: 1,340 m (4,400 ft)
• 25 kt wind (46 km/h, 28.77 mph): 1,000 m (3,280 ft)
• Clear 50 ft (15 m) - Calm: 1,752 km (5,750 ft)

Landing roll: 884 m (2,900 ft)

Wing loading:

• Empty weight: 283.509342 kg/m² (58.07 lb/ft²)
• Basic weight: 287.189277 kg/m² (58.82 lb/ft²)
• Design weight: 529.681154 kg/m² (108.49 lb/ft²)
• Combat weight: 383.885053 kg/m² (78.63 lb/ft²)
• Max. takeoff weight: 515.861089 kg/m² (105.66 lb/ft²) (field & catapult)
• Max. landing weight: 423.740861 kg/m² (87.79 lb/ft²) (field), 368.474817 kg/m² (75.47 lb/ft²) (arrest)

Thrust/weight (without afterburners):

 

• Empty weight: 0.77
• Basic weight: 0.76
• Design weight: 0.41
• Combat weight: 0.57 
• Max. takeoff weight: 0.42 (field & catapult)
• Max. landing weight: 0.52 (field), 0.59 (arrest)

Thrust/weight (with afterburner):

 

• Empty weight: 1.16
• Basic weight: 1.15
• Design weight: 0.62
• Combat weight: 0.86
• Max. takeoff weight: 0.64 (field & catapult)
• Max. landing weight: 0.78 (field), 0.89 (arrest)

 

Armament

 

Guns: N/A

Missiles:

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-9H Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or 

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missile + 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9H Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7D Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9H Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9B Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9D Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9G Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9H Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AIM-7E-2 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles + 4 x AIM-9L Sidewinder heat-seeking / infrared-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 4 x AGM-12C Bullpup air-to-ground missiles

Rockets:

• 15 x 127mm (5.0 in) Zuni unguided rockets

or

• 15 x 70mm (2.75 in) FFAR "Mighty Mouse" unguided rockets

Bombs:

• 24 x 250 lbs (24 x 100 kg) Mk 81 bombs

or

• 24 x 500 lbs (24 x 250 kg) Mk 82 bombs

or

• 11 x 450 lbs (11 x 200 kg) Mk 83 bombs

Other:

• 1 x 20mm M61A1 Vulcan gattling cannon (1,200 rds) in SUU-23/A gunpod
• Radar: AN/APG-59 radar with AN/AWG-10A pulse-doppler
• Flares & Chaffs: AN/APR25 RWR + AN/ALE29 (1966), AN/ALR45 RWR + AN/ALE39 CM (1978 revision)

 

 

 

Full Weapons Chart:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Sources/References:

 

 

Spoiler

 

F-4J Phantom II Standard Aircraft Characteristics, August 1973

NATOPS Flight Manual - F-4J Phantom II

Multipurpose Fighter - F-4J Phantom II by Denis Evstafiev

Bill Gunston - F-4 Phantom

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by EpicBlitzkrieg87

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[xxtdreaperxx 170]

+1 The more Phantoms the merrier 

[Milocat 4,849]

I'm sure we're going to be moving to even more modern aircraft, and this one would definitely fit in the game when that happens.  +1 for a couple of updates from now.

[RanchSauce39 397]

yea +1, would like to see it eventually.

 

But i dont quite think it would qualify as tier 7. I imagine tier 7 staring off with gen 4 jets ( or highly modernised gen 3 jets with gen 4 avionics).

[RanchSauce39 397]

Given the FGr2 ( aka F4M)  has been datamined for the UK tree ( and will possibly be added 1.93)

 

 

this is another reason to support the F4J. F4M avionics wise is closest comparable to the F4J and overall much superior to the F4C .

 

Also taken into consideration what will make the FGr2 even further avantages over current contemporaries given the worst AIm9 referenced from documentation is the Aim9G which is superior to the Aim9E, currently the best available  IR missile on top tier US fighters.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by RanchSauce39

[A_Random_Rin 104]

+1
Just one thing, technically this should be added after F4B, the navy version phantom, but consider its in-game features, I think it would be better after the F8 Crusader.
Reason:
1)The F4J performs basically same (just better but same play style) as F4B (if added) in game, but better engine, missiles, avionics, etc. which is slightly different from the F4C we have now.
2)While other nations would have their own phantoms, like 1.93 the F4M for the Britain, German would have F4F and Japan would have F4EJ, etc. You probably don't want to see US has way too many variants of F4 while others only have one or two. Lineup is something you should also take into consideration. 
 

PS: Wish to see the successor of F4J in the future

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,349]

On 29/10/2019 at 05:55, SGNB said:

like 1.93 the F4M for the Britain, German would have F4F and Japan would have F4EJ, etc. You probably don't want to see US has way too many variants of F4 while others only have one or two. Lineup is something you should also take into consideration. 

 

I don't see anything wrong with the US having many F-4s since the Phantom is their own plane. I think it's only fair that the nations with lend-lease get one or two variants while the mother nation of the design gets most of the fun

[the_big_iron 137]

The F-4J carries Mk4 (GAU-4) gatling gunpod instead of SUU-23 gunpod as this source suggests.

 

[MandolinMagi 603]

On 05/01/2020 at 22:26, DirectorOfRUBias said:

The F-4J carries Mk4 (GAU-4) gatling gunpod instead of SUU-23 gunpod as this source suggests.

 

The GAU-4 was a M61 Vulcan based gunpod, not the Mk 4

[the_big_iron 137]

On 26/01/2020 at 19:35, MandolinMagi said:

The GAU-4 was a M61 Vulcan based gunpod, not the Mk 4

GAU-4 is a self-powered version of M61 Vulcan Gatling cannon NOT the entire pod. The GAU-4 is fitted into a Mk 4 gun pod. This source (https://books.google.ca/books?id=LcKnCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=mk+4+gau-4&source=bl&ots=DNcLNe5jwr&sig=ACfU3U3X_dKb5v2bZGapWeeZCHP3xXh2hw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOlazJ27jnAhUhUt8KHR3zCR8Q6AEwGHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mk 4 gau-4&f=false) clearly states that.

 

Here are some pictures of Navy F-4s fitted with Gatling gun pods.

Also, I noticed that the gun pod on Navy F-4s are aligned with the plane instead of pointed downwards like the gun pod on Air Force F-4s.

[MandolinMagi 603]

On 04/02/2020 at 15:31, DirectorOfRUBias said:

GAU-4 is a self-powered version of M61 Vulcan Gatling cannon NOT the entire pod. The GAU-4 is fitted into a Mk 4 gun pod. This source (https://books.google.ca/books?id=LcKnCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=mk+4+gau-4&source=bl&ots=DNcLNe5jwr&sig=ACfU3U3X_dKb5v2bZGapWeeZCHP3xXh2hw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOlazJ27jnAhUhUt8KHR3zCR8Q6AEwGHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mk 4 gau-4&f=false) clearly states that.

 

Here are some pictures of Navy F-4s fitted with Gatling gun pods.

Also, I noticed that the gun pod on Navy F-4s are aligned with the plane instead of pointed downwards like the gun pod on Air Force F-4s.

The Mk4 gunpod is a pair of Mk.11 cannon, it has nothing to do with GAU-4. Mk.4 pod was never used by the Air Force.

 

GAU-4 is supposedly a self-powered M61 variant, except I can't find anything to prove it really exists. It might have had something to do with the SUU-23 gun pod?

 

Your source can't even decide if GAU-4 is the Mk4 gunpod (twin-barrel Mk11 cannon) or the SUU-23 gunpod.

 

 

Here, an actual source that says SUU-23 is a GAU-4 gun in a pod.

 

 

And everyone put the gunpods on straight, just they tended to bounce out of alignment

 

 

[the_big_iron 137]

On 05/02/2020 at 19:58, MandolinMagi said:

The Mk4 gunpod is a pair of Mk.11 cannon, it has nothing to do with GAU-4. Mk.4 pod was never used by the Air Force.

 

GAU-4 is supposedly a self-powered M61 variant, except I can't find anything to prove it really exists. It might have had something to do with the SUU-23 gun pod?

 

Your source can't even decide if GAU-4 is the Mk4 gunpod (twin-barrel Mk11 cannon) or the SUU-23 gunpod.

 

 

Here, an actual source that says SUU-23 is a GAU-4 gun in a pod.

 

 

And everyone put the gunpods on straight, just they tended to bounce out of alignment

 

 

The source said that SUU-23 contains a 20mm Gatling gun which is called GAU-4/A. 

Here it said GAU-4 is the entire self-powered unit of the M61 Vulcan cannon.

 

Mk.4 Mod 0 is the gunpod that houses twin-barrel Mk.11 cannon which can be fitted on the naval F-4s. And here is the version of Mk.4 gunpod that Navy F-4s use according to a formal navy pilot and Topgun instructor:

Not much information about the Mk.4 (GAU-4) gunpod because this gunpod was only tested on a few naval F-4s and the gunpod was deemed "worthless". The wildly used Mk.4 gunpod is the Mk.4 Mod 0 which housed the Mk.11 cannon.

Edited February 10, 2020 by DirectorOfRUBias

[MandolinMagi 603]

GAU-4 and Mk.4 are completly unrelated. GAU-4 is a Vulcan pod, Mk 4 has the Mk 11 cannon. 

 

Mk.4 Mod 0 is the same thing as Mk .4. If the Navy used the SUU-23 it would have had another designation, because that is how designations work.

 

 

I really don't care what the pilot thinks the names are, he's contradicted by the actual manuals.

[MaMoran20@psn 198]

Yes, yes but give the soviets the bis and f4e for usaf

[the_big_iron 137]

On 11/02/2020 at 18:34, MandolinMagi said:

GAU-4 and Mk.4 are completly unrelated. GAU-4 is a Vulcan pod, Mk 4 has the Mk 11 cannon. 

 

Mk.4 Mod 0 is the same thing as Mk .4. If the Navy used the SUU-23 it would have had another designation, because that is how designations work.

 

 

I really don't care what the pilot thinks the names are, he's contradicted by the actual manuals.

It seems like you didn’t understand the source at all. I don’t know whether it’s too technical for you or you don’t even bother to read it. From your source about SUU-23 gunpod it states that “It contains a six barrel 20mm Gatling gun GAU-4/A”. Also my source states that “the SUU-23, housing the M61 Vulcan 20mm six-barrelled Gatling gun fitted in a self-powered GAU-4 unit”. What do you mean by “Vulcan pod”? Do you think GAU-4 is a gunpod? If so, how can a gunpod contain another gunpod? Or do you think the Navy also used the SUU-23 gunpod? The GAU-4 is an entire unit of M61 Vulcan with power source NOT a gunpod and it can be fitted into both Mk.4 and SUU-23 gunpod. Some naval F-4s did use the Mk.4 gunpods that fitted with Mk.11 cannon (most of them were F-4Bs used by the marines) but there are also a handful of naval F-4s trialed Mk.4 gunpods that fitted with GAU-4 in China Lake which wasn’t very successful and I believe that John Nash actually flew one of these F-4s. You think former F-4 pilot John Nash contradict with the manual because I don’t think you understand the manual. There is no point for us to argue about this anymore. 

 

I’m not saying that the F-4J should only carry the GAU-4 version of the Mk.4 gunpod if it comes to WT. I’m trying to say that there is a option for the F-4J to carry a Gatling gunpod. What gunpod the F-4J carries in WT is up to the dev’s decision.

Edited February 14, 2020 by DirectorOfRUBias

[MandolinMagi 603]

On 13/02/2020 at 12:25, DirectorOfRUBias said:

It seems like you didn’t understand the source at all. I don’t know whether it’s too technical for you or you don’t even bother to read it. From your source about SUU-23 gunpod it states that “It contains a six barrel 20mm Gatling gun GAU-4/A”. Also my source states that “the SUU-23, housing the M61 Vulcan 20mm six-barrelled Gatling gun fitted in a self-powered GAU-4 unit”. What do you mean by “Vulcan pod”? Do you think GAU-4 is a gunpod? If so, how can a gunpod contain another gunpod? Or do you think the Navy also used the SUU-23 gunpod? The GAU-4 is an entire unit of M61 Vulcan with power source NOT a gunpod and it can be fitted into both Mk.4 and SUU-23 gunpod. Some naval F-4s did use the Mk.4 gunpods that fitted with Mk.11 cannon (most of them were F-4Bs used by the marines) but there are also a handful of naval F-4s trialed Mk.4 gunpods that fitted with GAU-4 in China Lake which wasn’t very successful and I believe that John Nash actually flew one of these F-4s. You think former F-4 pilot John Nash contradict with the manual because I don’t think you understand the manual. There is no point for us to argue about this anymore. 

 

I’m not saying that the F-4J should only carry the GAU-4 version of the Mk.4 gunpod if it comes to WT. I’m trying to say that there is a option for the F-4J to carry a Gatling gunpod. What gunpod the F-4J carries in WT is up to the dev’s decision.

I understand your source, I'm just saying its wrong. And yeah, I mixed up pod and gun, sorry about that. 

 

 

The GAU-4 gun is not interchangeable with the Mk11 gun. You can't put a GAU-4 in the Mk.4 pod. A Mk4 pod is, by definition, a  Mk11 gun and the pod assembly.

 

Mk4 pod is 1390lb loaded and 193 inches long

 

SUU-23 pod is 1731lb loaded and 199 inches long

 

 

Mk4 carries 750 rounds

 

SUU-23 carries 1200 rounds

 

 

Mk4 is 22.5 inches in diameter

 

SUU-23 is about the same.

 

 

Mk 11 gun is 78.5 inches long

 

GAU-4 gun is....71-73 inches for M61

 

 

Mk 11 gun is 195lb 

 

GAU-4 gun is....200-248lb for M61 depending on version.

 

 

 

How exactly do you suggest a GAU-4 gun fit into the Mk4 pod when its 300lb heavier and has 50% more ammunition? You can't. The Mk4 gunpod, AS DEFINED BY THE MANUAL, uses the Mk11 gun. Switching the gun out would result in a redesignation. Among other things, the entire front end would need to be reworked.

 

 

Also, if the GAU-4 gun is so terrible, why did he want a SUU-16? How is that going to be better? It's the same gun!

 

One old guy mixing up his designations doesn't mean anything. 

 

 

 

[the_big_iron 137]

22 hours ago, MandolinMagi said:

I understand your source, I'm just saying its wrong. And yeah, I mixed up pod and gun, sorry about that. 

 

 

The GAU-4 gun is not interchangeable with the Mk11 gun. You can't put a GAU-4 in the Mk.4 pod. A Mk4 pod is, by definition, a  Mk11 gun and the pod assembly.

 

Mk4 pod is 1390lb loaded and 193 inches long

 

SUU-23 pod is 1731lb loaded and 199 inches long

 

 

Mk4 carries 750 rounds

 

SUU-23 carries 1200 rounds

 

 

Mk4 is 22.5 inches in diameter

 

SUU-23 is about the same.

 

 

Mk 11 gun is 78.5 inches long

 

GAU-4 gun is....71-73 inches for M61

 

 

Mk 11 gun is 195lb 

 

GAU-4 gun is....200-248lb for M61 depending on version.

 

 

 

How exactly do you suggest a GAU-4 gun fit into the Mk4 pod when its 300lb heavier and has 50% more ammunition? You can't. The Mk4 gunpod, AS DEFINED BY THE MANUAL, uses the Mk11 gun. Switching the gun out would result in a redesignation. Among other things, the entire front end would need to be reworked.

 

 

Also, if the GAU-4 gun is so terrible, why did he want a SUU-16? How is that going to be better? It's the same gun!

 

One old guy mixing up his designations doesn't mean anything. 

 

 

 

In the end of the day I guess we both want to make thing right. Sorry I misunderstood you. I did heard a lot of people talking about the navy trialed Gatling gunpods on their F-4s in China Lake tho. However, the navy never use any gunpod on their F-4s in combat and I can only find sources of the Mk.4 gunpods with Mk.11 cannons used on marines’ F-4Bs . To be honest, I would rather have the gunpod with Mk.11 cannon on the F-4J since the Mk.11 cannon doesn’t have to spool up (M61 Vulcan takes 0.25s to spool up). This is just a personal preference. The F-4J will be mostly rely on its missiles. It’s capable of carrying AIM-9H which is considered the best sidewinder in its era.

 

Anyway, let’s put away our differences and enjoy the game. Hopefully the F-4J will come to the game soon. It will be able to effectively counter the MiG-21 and R-60 spam.

Edited February 15, 2020 by DirectorOfRUBias

[the_big_iron 137]

On 14/09/2019 at 19:38, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

Later on, the F-4J was equipped with leading-edge slats and the same avionics as the F-4S, making the difference only in the smokeless engines the F-4S had. 

Just a little correction here, the F-4J never had leading-edge slats because the Navy don't want to sacrifice the top speed and climb rate for higher maneuverability. Instead, the Navy opted for the slotted stabilator which act as miniature inverted slatted wing and increase the elevator authority. You can find more information here. Regarding the F-4J upgraded with leading-edge slats and same avionics as the F-4S, those F-4J are essentially converted into F-4S.

 

Here are some pictures of slotted stabilators.

Spoiler

Slotted stabilator retrofitted to a F-4B

 

Slotted stabilator on a F-4N

 

Here are some information about slotted stabilator on the F-4J from the F-4J Flight Manual (NAVAIR 01-245FDD-1, published on 1 May 1975).

Spoiler

 

The slotted stabilator did give the F-4J some better handling characteristics without a significant top speed penalty unlike the leading-edge slats. I think this means the F-4J will turn better than the Phantom FGR.2. 

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[BeowulfDW 374]

I'm for it, provided the it's added after the F4H-1, which would itself go after the F9F-8.

[RanchSauce39 397]

8 hours ago, BeowulfDW said:

I'm for it, provided the it's added after the F4H-1, which would itself go after the F9F-8.

 

better to skip the F4B tBH they would be worse than USAF F4C.

 

the way i see it after F9F8, what matter is the F8 crusader, before hopping to any naval phantoms.

Edited March 21, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[Oop_Ack 0]

F-4J / S USN Phantoms requested.

Warthunder created Phantom FGR.2 and Phantom FG. Mk1 for the British line.

All that is needed to do for J/S and move the E engines to the the British Phantoms.

 

Please create the J/S for the USN fans.

 

[Nostalgistic 312]

+1

[the_big_iron 137]

On 14/09/2019 at 19:38, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

Maximum speed:

• at sea level: 1,408 km/h (875 mph, 760 kts)
• at 10,668 m (35,000 ft): 2,549 km/h (1,584 mph, 1,376 kts)

This is the top speed for the F-4J that carries 4 AIM-7s which create drag to the airframe. The true top speed for the F-4J (clean configuration) is actually 1430 km/h (888 mph, 772 kts) at sea level and 2298 km/h (1428 mph, 1241 kts) at 36,089 ft. See the "Tanks Dropped" (clean configuration) section of the following table for more detail. 

Spoiler

 

Reference: F-4J SAC (http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F-4J_Phantom_II_SAC_-_August_1973.pdf)