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  1. 1. Would You Like This Tank?

    • Yes
      55
    • No
      2
    • Maybe / I Don't Know
      3
  2. 2. If Added, What BR Should It Be?

    • 7.0 (Same As Type 60 ATM)
      32
    • 7.3 (Same As BMP-1)
      8
    • 7.7 (Same As Leopard 1)
      6
    • 8.0 (Just Below RakJPz 2)
      8
    • Other (Please Comment)
      1
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      5
  3. 3. If Added, How Should It Be Available To Players?

    • Researchable
      50
    • Premium
      0
    • Event / Tournament
      5
    • Squadron Reward Vehicle
      2
    • Other (Please Comment)
      0
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      3
  4. 4. If Added, How Should The Smoke Launchers Be Positioned?

    • Frontal ("Eyelash") Mount (Same as SPz Lang)
      21
    • Rear (Engine-Deck) Mount (Same as JPz 4-5 & RakJPz 2)
      10
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      29


The Raketenjagdpanzer 1 was the first ATGM carrier to serve with the West German Bundeswehr and the ancestor to the much-improved Raketenjagdpanzer 2. Based on the hull of the 1950s HS.30 IFV (better known as Schützenpanzer Lang), it was a relatively basic design which could only fire one missile at a time despite having two launching arms, since it was designed to operate with one missile ready to fire and the other arm in reloading position. A lightly armoured vehicle, it was eclipsed by the bigger, stronger, faster and better-armed RakJPz 2 after just a few years of service, but it was nevertheless the first dedicated vehicle of its type anywhere in the world and an important first step for West German ATGM development. It's my hope that this historically significant vehicle could be the vehicle we need to bridge the gap between JPz 4-5 and RakJPz-2, while also offering Germany a lower-tier ATGM option to complement the excellent, but highly-ranked, Raketenjagdpanzer 2.

 

BrjiPY9.jpg

 

History:

 

In search of new avenues through which to deal with the USSR's enormous tank fleet, in 1960 an experimental prototype was built based on the highly-adaptable HS.30 chassis (already successful as the hull for a recoilless rifle tank destroyer, an artillery spotter and a mortar carrier) intended to test the concept of a tank destroyer with a main armament of exclusively ATGMs. Initial testing was a success, and the vehicle was adopted just the next year, in 1961. Unfortunately, the HS.30 hull wasn't perfect and flaws with that basic design carried over into RakJPz 1, along with an ill-conceived loading system. This mechanism, possibly made necessary by the HS.30's narrow chassis, meant that only one missile could be ready to fire at any one time, even if the other missile arm was already loaded, so if the tank needed to quickly fire a second missile after the first, they'd have to wait until the other arm had elevated 90 degrees from the loading mechanism at the tank's rear. In light of this limited system and teething issues inherited from the HS.30 hull, Raketenjagdpanzer 1 was only produced from 1961-1962, and the first prototype of its eventual successor, Raketenjagdpanzer 2, was built just the following year, in 1963. After the acceptance of the JPz 4-5 based RakJPz 2 in 1967, there was little need for Raketenjagdpanzer 1 except as a reserve ATGM carrier, and while at least one vehicle was used in tests in 1970, the tank soon faded into obscurity. That said, the role of Raketenjagdpanzer 1 in West German arms development was crucial, providing the proof of concept that would allow German engineers to built later, more efficient designs, and marking the start of a new era in anti-tank combat.

 

schutzenpanzer-HS30-armored-vehicle.jpgimages?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQqLLJTVOtQXAc3rQr_-uimages?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmx1YOb1DnowZprS-4hx3d8d5b91abf7ac2172437227ad8949870.jpg

Left: SPz 11-2 'Lang'. Middle: Two RakJPzs with SPz Lang-style smoke launchers. Right: RakJPz 1 and RakJPz 2 side by side, illustrating the size difference.

 

Specifications:

 

 

Raketenjagdpanzer-I.png

 

 

Length: 5.56m

Width: 2.25m

Height: 1.70m

Weight: 13 tons

Crew: 4

Primary Armament: SS.11 ATGM (10 carried) 

Secondary Armament: None*

Armour: 30mm front & sides (45 degree frontal angle)

Smoke: 8 smoke grenade launchers (either front or rear-mounted)

Engine: Rolls-Royce B81 Mk.80F 8-cylinder gasoline engine (235 hp at 3800 rpm)

Top Speed: 32 mph (51 kph)

Max Climbable Incline: 60 degrees

Max. Fording Depth: 0.70m

Max. Clearable Obstacle Height: 0.60m

Max. Crossable Trench Width: 1.60m

 

* The stated secondary armament in many sources is a single 7.62mm MG3 machine gun (2000 rounds), but on further research this seems to be incorrect. RakJPz 1 has no hull MG port, and I've found no photos of it with an external MG3 like that on RakJPz 2, so it appears to be the only RakJPz model without an MG (likely the source of the confusion). If MG3s were ever fitted to RakJPz 1s, it can't have been common practice, so I proceed on the assumption it didn't have one until I find evidence otherwise.

 

Missile Specifications:

 

K2rxzbL.jpg

 

Type: Nord Aviation SS.11 (Type 140C)

Dimensions: 165x1190mm; 500mm wingspan

Total Weight: 30kg 

Warhead: 6.8kg Type 140C HEAT warhead

Penetration: 600mm RHA at 0 degrees

Guidance: MCLOS 

Range: 500-3000m

Cruise Speed: 160 m/s 

 

Its Place In War Thunder:

 

sYIVn9k.jpg?fb


With JPz 4-5 now down at 6.7, the BR gap between it and its missile-armed sibling is even larger than ever before, as the RakJPz 2's BR of 8.3 places it almost two full BRs higher. Given this gap and the according lack of ATGM-based options for German 7.7s, the Raketenjagdpanzer 1 seems ideal to fill the role of an intermediate tank destroyer, bridging the gap between the gun-armed JPz 4-5 and the twin-missile RakJPz 2. There are several disadvantages to this tank compared with its successor which, in my opinion, suit it to a BR quite a bit lower: RakJPz 1 has half as many ready-to-fire missiles, 20mm less frontal armour, no machine gun to clear obstacles for its missiles, and a top speed 12 mph slower. Its smaller size may help with stealth, but it also makes it more compact and far more likely to die in a single shot to the 90mm and 105mm guns common around Tiers IV and V. Use of cover will be essential to this vehicle, and with just one ready-to-fire missile, the player's aim must be that much better if they want to secure a kill and not see their target get into cover while the second missile is still moving into position, which will hopefully serve to train German tankers in proper missile technique so that they are ready to face higher-level vehicles in RakJPz 2.

 

Compared to other low-BR vehicles with ATGMs, Raketenjagdpanzer 1 seems only marginally better. The 6.7 Premiums Strv. 81 (Rb.52) and AMX-13 (SS.11) have triple and quadruple RakJPz 1's ready-to-fire missiles, respectively, along with a main gun and either far more armour (Strv. 81) or speed (AMX-13) than it does, with RakJPz 1's only advantages being roughly triple the total missiles and the ability to fire from behind cover. Type 60 (ATM), meanwhile, has twice the ready-to-fire missiles and both a secondary machine gun and a .50 Cal at 7.0, which it trades for a higher profile, thinner armour, worse missiles and an even smaller total ammo count. Based on RakJPz 1's far better ability to utilise cover compared with Type 60 (ATM), as well as more combat endurance due to its greater missile load, it seems fair enough for RakJPz 1 to sit a little higher and perform the same role for German Tier V that its Japanese counterpart does, for instance at 7.3. BMP-1 is, of course, an objectively better vehicle in most aspects and also 7.3, but it's something of an outlier for missile-armed vehicles and I usually ignore it for these analyses because I frankly don't understand why it's as low as it is. Overall, Raketenjagdpanzer 1 seems to have more in common with missile-armed tanks below 8.0 than it does those around its successor's BR, which to me suggests it would be best implemented as a mid-Tier V vehicle to fight alongside Leopard 1 and M48A2C, just as RakJPz 2 does with Leopard 1A1 and M48A2 GA2.

 

More Pictures:

 

Spoiler

 

f0uSKL2.jpg

A RakJPz 1 firing a missile during a troop exercise.

 

AfxWrDf.jpg

A Raketenjagdpanzer 1 on parade.

 

ZV6yXcQ.jpg

A RakJPz 1 with its missile launcher traversed far to the left. Also note the engine-mounted smoke grenades.

 

bGYveJe.jpg

Another RakJPz 1, possibly during an exercise or troop trials.

 

3641524109_b96fe50e0b_b.jpg

A RakJPz 1 in a museum. Note the lack of frontal smoke launchers, indicating a JPz 4-5 or RakJPz 2-style rear-mounted configuration.

 

3642343956_d5579def5a.jpg

Another museum RakJPz 1, clearly showing the rear-mounted smoke launchers just like JPz 4-5 and RakJPz 2.

 

raketenjagdpanzer_1_02_of_30.jpg

A clear frontal view of a museum RakJPz 1. 

 

xrKeLqJ.jpg

A side view of another museum example, with a photo of a RakJPz 1 firing its missile displayed above.

 

8734648604_9727fa24e1_b.jpg

The same vehicle from another angle.

 

K2rxzbL.jpg

A closeup of a RakJPz 1's SS.11 missile on its firing arm.

 


Sources:

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Raketenjagdpanzer-I.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raketenjagdpanzer_1

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=665

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS.11

 

Sources For Other Vehicles Mentioned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schützenpanzer_Lang_HS.30

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Schutzenpanzer_Lang_HS-30

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=420

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Raketenjagdpanzer-2.php

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/West_Germany/Kanonenjagdpanzer-90.php

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  • Technical Moderator

This would complement the German ATGM-carrier line nicely! +1 :good:

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Germany doesn't really need more AGTMs, but I wouldn't mind seeing some more Raketenjagdpanzers.  +1.

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10 hours ago, Milocat said:

Germany doesn't really need more AGTMs, but I wouldn't mind seeing some more Raketenjagdpanzers.  +1.

 

Thanks for the support!

 

Germany does have a lot of ATGM vehicles right now, but I think of all the Raketenjagdpanzers I've suggested, this is the one I think is actually needed, rather than just being nice to have. Most voters want this down at ~7.0, where Type 60 ATM currently sits, and I can see why. Not only is it similar to that vehicle (very weak, and with somewhat limited combat ability -- in this case because of ROF, rather than the missiles themselves), it could also do for Germany what Type 60 does for Japan, which is provide a vehicle that can deal with the tougher tanks right out of the box. For all its limitations, I found Type 60 ATM an absolute godsend when I was still grinding for better shells on ST-A2 and Type 61, because I knew that if I hit a T29/30/34, an IS-3/4/6/7, or a T28/95, I could pen it and (eventually) kill it. Replaying German Tier IV to research the Maus recently, I noticed I struggle to deal with the US heavies in particular, because even with the long 88 you have to hit weakspots and my aim is often not that great. Japan doesn't have that problem at those BRs because right from the start,Type 60 SPRG (C) has HEAT rockets and Type 60 ATM has missiles. If Germany got SPz Lang and RakJPz 1, they'd be in the same boat, which might (hopefully) give a few of the more vocal "my Tiger II shouldn't be fighting MBTs" people one less thing to complain about. Then again, maybe not, but we can hope.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay here is the situation

I just made a bug report about the RakJPz 2 incorrect missile guidance system

According to the sources I found it was equipped with SS.11 B1 missiles which were SACLOS

 

So if my bug report is forwarded and the tank get fixed then the RakJPz 1 would be a nice addition to fill the potential future gap between canons and 2nd gen missiles

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  • 2 years later...

+1 I don't see why we can't get this added. Though it would probably be 6.7 now considering that's where the type 60 is. Might even make for a neat premium or BP vehicle.

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