Magyar légierő, Hungarian Air Force Tech Tree

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

 

Hello everyone! As how the title said , this topic is about the Hungarian tech tree with more than 46 vehicles!

 

 

 

After 1.91, China was added to the game, and that gave a hope for other smaller nations with small number of unique vehicles to get a Tech Tree in the game. The game has more possibility to add nations, like Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland  or even Netherlands. China as a nation during WW2 never had the possibility to manufacture tanks nor planes, in fact the Chinese Air tree only has 5 native vehicles out of 40 planes and this 5 are just license produced planes.

 

In this topic i want to show Hungary as a Independent Nation in the game!

 

Hungarian Ground Tech Tree linked to this project

 

 

Pros of the tech tree:

1. It is a relatively easy tech tree to make like the Chinese was, since Hungary had the possibiliy to manufacture german planes under license the Hungarian Air Force never took a massive aproach to designing many planes but this planes were in fact Hungarian home produced but also modified by them like the (not yet in game so with the same effort they could be added to both trees) Me210 Ca with a 40mm bofors gun or the Magav Heja II a licence build Re2000 with different engine gun placement and different guns altogheter.
2. The tree still offers native designs by Hungary.
3. Many aircraft in the tree are not present in game so their models could be recycled for half the work in other trees. It offers the possibility to Hungary to shine as a nation like every nation should.
4. Hungary as a AXIS member during the world war 2, Warsaw-Pact member during the cold war era, this would bring flavour and diversity in game.
5. They used a lot of German made vehicle in the world war and Russian ones after that ,so they have a interesting mixture of this two type of vehicles.

 

Air Force Tree:

In @DarthGergely homemade tech tree there are 48 vehicles (7 premiums, 36+ regulars/ more to come), 4 lines (3+The premium) and 4 Helicopters.

 

 

Fighters

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CR.32 and CR.32 bis

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A fiat CR.32 Purchased by Hungary and used under their banner, a total of 76 were bought in 1936 and used until new fighters became avalible and even after as trainers. 38 fiat CR.32 Bis were also used by the Magyar Legiero

Fiat CR.32 armament was changed to Hungarian 8mm 26/31.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns

Fiat CR.32 Bis around 38 Cr.32bis close-support fighters were used from 1939, armament was changed to Hungarian 8mm 26/31.M and 12.7mm 40.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns

 

CR.42

Spoiler

A Fiat CR.42 Purchased by Hungary and used under their banner, a total of 68 were bought between 1938 and 1939 seeing action in 1941 on an escort mission to Nikolayev.

The armement was changed to Hungarian 12.7mm 40.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns

 

HE 112 B-1/U-2

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A German He 112 evaluated in 1938, an order of 36 and the license were to be bought but just 3 were delivered in the end. machine guns were changed to Hungarian 8mm 39.M wing machine guns.

 

MÁVAG Héja I and II

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Hungarian modified and self produed Reggiane 2000, 204 Hèja I built and 192 Hèja II built.

Màvag Hèja II Dive Bomber

In 1943 Hungary made two dive bomber variants of the MÁVAG Héja II fighter, serial number V.560 and V.670. These dive bomber variants had an electric dive brake on their wings and two German ETC 50 bomb racks (some Hungarian sources mention 2-2 German MWN bomb racks but I could not find info on such bomb rack) between the dive brakes and the wheels, they could also carry 4 Italian Spezzoniera Automatica Nardi bomb-bays. All in all a Héja II dive bomber could carry 88x2kg and 4x50kg bombs. The aircrafts had a 600 km/h diving speed and had a range of 700 km.The two dive bombers were given to the Royal Hungarian Air Force but we don't really know if they were ever used in combat, they were destroyed in a bombing raid in 1944.

A third dive bomber was also made, serial number V.660 although it was only just an experimental variant. This aircraft was equipped with two ETC 250 bomb racks instead, thus it could carry 88x2kg and 2x250 kg bombs. It's not known if this aircraft was given to the Air Force or was ever used in combat.

Could be added before or after the standard Hèja or in the ground attacker line

https://live.warthunder.com/post/779518/en/

 

Ezust Nyil

Spoiler

Hungarian Prototype Fighter home built with a unique wing design, armed with two 12.7mm and 2 8mm machine guns it was to become the Hungarian home produced plane but the destruction of it's prototype and the licence to build Bf 109s cancelled the project. SOON I'LL MAKE SUGGESTIONS FOR THIS AND OTHER MISSING PLANES

sources:

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/wm23.html

http://aircraft-planet.com/?p=4232

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/4936-weiss-manfred-wm-23-ezust-nyil-silver-arrow/

http://www.res-aeronautica.com/weiss-manfred-wm-23-ezustnyil-ezust-nyil.php

https://books.google.it/books?id=C3QuDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT104&lpg=PT104&dq=ezüst+nyíl+plane&source=bl&ots=OqLZ2d7WGC&sig=ACfU3U096nuwKdm2YwbJezg7qT8jfUSatg&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhudXNmJ_lAhVM_qQKHW6rD70Q6AEwD3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=ezüst nyíl plane&f=false

 

RMI-1

Spoiler

RMI-1 Hungarian project for an heavy fighter that had 2 prototypes built of which one was tested and data was collected about it. More info will come after they're translated from Hungarian

 

BF 109 (D-1,E-3,F-4,F-8,G-2,G-4,G-6,G-10,G-14)

Spoiler

All variants were used by Hungary from 1942 as part of the re armament effort. D-1 and E-3 series were used as fighter trainers, G-6 fighters were built in Hungary by a German-Hungarian contract.

 

MIG (15-17-19-21)

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Hungary as a part of the Warsaw pact was given a number of Mig aircrafts

 

 

Attackers

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W.M. 16B and 21

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The WM-16B got a new engine (WM-16A's top speed was around 230 km/h, too slow, but the WM-16B had a top speed of 270 km/h, 880 HP instead of 550. This was the historical light bomber modification of the WM-16. It has an increased bomb load of 300 kg (6x50 kg)

 

 

HE-70K/HE-170

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A German light bomber/reconnaissance plane built in Hungary in 18 units under license, low tier ground support

 

Fw 189 A1/A2

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A German reconnaissance/light bomber plane that flew with the 3./1 squadron on the Russian front in 1943 and late 1944, Could be both a premium and a regular plane since two different variants were used. 40 planes under Hungarian service

 

Me 210 Ca-1/40mm bofors

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A German Heavy Fighter built at Dunai and used in 160 units, the Magyar legieroalso installed a 40mm bofors gun on at least one unit. Plus a Zerstorer version built in 4 units

 

IL-10

Spoiler

A Russian attacker used by Hungary after ww2 in 148/159 units, some were even cannibalized of it's 20mm gun for prototype installation on the PSZH

 

 

Bombers

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Ca.310

Spoiler

An Italian Light Bomber use by Hungary until 1940 in 36 units, here we can see a crashed Hungarian plane recognizable by the triangular shape on the tail

 

 

Ca.135

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Italian Medium Bomber bought in 17 units from italy and used by Aereal unit 4/1

 

He 111 H-6

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A German Bomber used in 16/19 units by Hungary in the H-6 variant

 

Ju 86 K-2/Ga-1 and Ju 88 A-4/A-14/C-6

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First two photos Ju 86 C, Third photo Ju 88

1. A total of 66 Ju 86 were Exported by Sweden to hungary and used as bombers.
2. Ju88 were used by hungary in different models like this D-1 recently restored http://www.toredgarolsen.net/junkers88.htm a total of 83 A-4 A-14 C-6 and D-1 plus 2 H-2

 

Do 215 B-4

Spoiler

A German Light Bomber used by hungary in 4 to 10 Units, it this photo you can see a Ca135, different tail marks but the unit number is follwing the other plane order

 

 

 

Premiums

Spoiler

W.I.P.

Will be added as soon as possible with immages

 

Helicopters

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Mil Mi-4

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A very small but sturdy helicopter capable of hosting a range of ordinances and a 50.call , like 

                                                              96 x S5K rockets

                                                              6 x FAB-100 bombs (600 kg total)

                                                              4 x FAB-250 bombs (1,000 kg total)

                                                              4 x 9M17M Falanga missiles and 96 x S5K rockets

                                                              4 x 9M17M Falanga missiles and 6 FAB-100 bombs (600 kg total)

                                                              4 x 9M17M Falanga missiles and 4 x FAB-250 bombs (1,000 lb total)

 

Mil Mi-24 V/D/P

Spoiler

 

Various Mil Mi 24 were used by Hungary in  three different models.

Source and reference https://www.helis.com/database/modelorg/Hungary-Mi-24/

 

Other Planes to add

Spoiler

Potez 63 11 G, 40 units (description)

Stuka Ju 87 B2, 68 units (description)

Me 110 G-4 (description)

Caproni Ca.101/3m (description)

RMI 8 (description)

Yak-9P 75 units (description)

Tu-2 63 units (description)

Mil mi-8/17 to discuss

 

Decals

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SOURCE

Spoiler

This poster was realized for the 75 years of the Magyar legiero birth and was done by the airforce itself and given to the public in 2013, this poster shows the planes, numbers of use and camouflage.

 

Gebauer Machine Gun 40.M: This weapon is the same as the 1926/31.M, except it was chambering the 12.7x81 mmSR Italian Fiat-Safat ammunition, designated as 12.7 mm 40.M cartridges in the Hungarian Armed Forces. The gun was adapted in 1940. It was used on the Fiat CR.42, Reggiane Re.2000 (Héja I) fighters, which were supplied to Hungary by Italy in 1941-42, and the licence manufactured MÁVAG Héja II, and the prototype WM-23 "Ezüst Nyíl" Hungarian fighters. Italy purchased the license to manufacture Gebauer Machine Guns in 1943 for the payment of two Italian fighter planes. It is unknown if the Italians ever manufactured any Gebauers. A single 40 M. Gebauer GMK (seen in picture No.2) weighed 20 kg, its muzzle velocity was 800 m/s, and had a 1500 round/min rate of fire. 

 

All numbers of units are taken from the Magyar legero directly

 

ATTENTION:This suggestion is still in beta, it needs other planes to be added to it but the main idea of the tree was given in the first Photo, any help is apprecciated.

 

Hungary in the MM: In the WW2 Era Hungary is in the same team with Germany , in the Cold War ERA is with Russia.(just an example)

 

Also keep in mind that the number of units in service it's small when comparated to Russia UK or USA but Hungary didn't had the same financial budget as those nations so the number rappresent the 100% operative effort made by the government

 

This suggestion is not against the : Minor Axis , Warsaw Pact , Eastern European or International tech tree projects!It is a way to demonstrate how single nations can thrive in war thunder

Special thanks for : @Miltaccfd , @DarthGergely for the help to make this suggestion!

Thanks for the Suggestions for : Caid , Milocat , Steff, Hebime, zombificous

Edited October 30, 2019 by MadMax_ITA_

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[DarthGergely 464]

 Decals of the Hungarian Air force (1940-45)  : 

Edited October 20, 2019 by DarthGergely

[DarthGergely 464]

The list of the Hungarian fighters/attackers between 1919 and 1943

First column: The name of the plane  Second column: army insignia 3th column: Quantity and the last is the term of service.

The list of the Bombers /Attackers /dive bombers : 

[_HighPingHero_ 8]

@MadMax_ITA_, we have done some research with @DarthGergely, and we have found out that Hungary haven't had any kind of Ju-188s between '43 and '44. The Hungarian Royal Air Force has gotten a nice variety of Junkers' Ju-88 models in those years, and reports have misleadingly called the Ju-88D-5/g 3e long range recon aircraft Ju-188's.

 

Source of this is: György Punka & Gyula Sárhidai - Hungarian Eagles - The Hungarian Royal Air Force 1920-1945 (the same book he has just posted lists from)

 

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

16 minutes ago, _HighPingHero_ said:

@MadMax_ITA_, we have done some research with @DarthGergely, and we have found out that Hungary haven't had any kind of Ju-188s between '43 and '44. The Hungarian Royal Air Force has gotten a nice variety of Junkers' Ju-88 models in those years, and reports have misleadingly called the Ju-88D-5/g 3e long range recon aircraft Ju-188's.

 

Source of this is: György Punka & Gyula Sárhidai - Hungarian Eagles - The Hungarian Royal Air Force 1920-1945 (the same book he has just posted lists from)

 

Thx fixed it, in this case keep in mind that Hungary had Tu2s after the war that could easily fit in the gap given by the ju188

[PacketlossRedux 595]

regarding the ME 210Ca-1 with the 40mm and rockets, there was one test version which was given to the RHA and further 4 were converted from the basic Me 210 Ca-1.

Source is Punka György.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bbbh3-xbPLBgYyxc__e_3HoAzAYxlyuC Page 20. 

they wanted to convert 30 of the basic 210 Ca-1's but only 4 were finished

 

And a small list of used aircraft with the changes made to them

 

• Italian Fiat Cr.32 (armament was changed to Hungarian 8mm 26/31.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns)

•  Italian Fiat Cr.32bis (around 38 Cr.32bis close-support fighters were used from 1939, armament was changed to Hungarian 8mm 26/31.M and 12.7mm 40.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns)

•  Italian Fiat Cr.42 (armement was changed to Hungarian 12.7mm 40.M Gebauer motor-driven machine guns)

Spoiler

Gebauer Machine Gun 40.M: This weapon is the same as the 1926/31.M, except it was chambering the 12.7x81 mmSR Italian Fiat-Safat ammunition, designated as 12.7 mm 40.M cartridges in the Hungarian Armed Forces. The gun was adapted in 1940. It was used on the Fiat CR.42, Reggiane Re.2000 (Héja I) fighters, which were supplied to Hungary by Italy in 1941-42, and the licence manufactured MÁVAG Héja II, and the prototype WM-23 "Ezüst Nyíl" Hungarian fighters. Italy purchased the license to manufacture Gebauer Machine Guns in 1943 for the payment of two Italian fighter planes. It is unknown if the Italians ever manufactured any Gebauers. A single 40 M. Gebauer GMK (seen in picture No.2) weighed 20 kg, its muzzle velocity was 800 m/s, and had a 1500 round/min rate of fire.

•  German Focke-Wulf Fw 190 F-8

•  German Messerschmitt Bf 109 (D-1, E-3, F-4, G-2, G-4, G-6, G-10, G-14) (D-1 and E-3 series were used as fighter trainers, G-6 fighters were built in Hungary by a German-Hungarian contract)

•  German ME 110 G-4 

•  German Ju-87 Stuka A-2,B-2, D-3

•  Italian Fiat Br.20 "Cicogna" (out of service in 1939)

•  Italian Caproni Ca.101/3m (out of service in 1940)

•  Italian Caproni Ca.135

•  Italian Caproni Ca.310 "Libeccio" (out of service in 1940)

• German Heinkel He 111 H-6

• Heinkel He-70K (He-170) hungarian version with WM-14 engine. 18 of it served as a short distance reconnassance aircraft 

• German Focke-Wulf Fw 189 Uhu

• German Junkers Ju 86 (K-2, Ga-1)

• German Junkers Ju-87 (A-2, B-2, D-3, D-5) (fuselage and engine was built in Hungary by a German-Hungarian contract)

• German Junkers Ju 88 (A-4, A-14, C-6)

 

alright. i wasnt sure at first so i double checked and it looks to be true:

 

The He 112 on steroids, AKA the:

German Heinkel He 112 B-1/U2 (machine guns were changed to Hungarian 8mm 39.M wing machine guns)

 

This is important because the the 39.M wing machine gun had a very high, 2038/min rate of fire and fired 8x56 mmR cartridges with 730 m/s muzzle velocity, the machine gun weighted 15,85 kg. With this amount of bullets in such a short time the machine gun was a perfect for dogfights. The prototype was finished in February 1936 - during this time it stil had only 1700/min rate of fire -, and it was shown to the General Staff on February 16, 1939. A series of tests on the proving grounds were held between April 21 - May 31, 1939, and the gun was adopted by the Hungarian Air Force in March 1940. The gun was used on the 3 Heinkel He 112 B-1/U2 fighters which were supplied to Hungary by Germany in 1939, and in the WM-23 "Ezüst Nyíl" prototype fighter.

https://live.warthunder.com/post/457803/en/

@DarthGergely

Edited October 20, 2019 by Jacky95

[FelvidekiMagyar 26]

Nice! I support this

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

There's not a whole lot of particularly unique content to be added with a Hungarian tree (and before you bring up the Chinese tree, that was mainly brought over because the dedicated Chinese server is shutting down, plus China was a HUGE player in 20th Century geopolitics and continues to be to this day).  It'd probably be better to add this stuff to the Italian tree; I could see a branch of Hungarian and Romanian fighters being added to the regular tree, while everything else could be put into the bomber and attacker branches.

 

That said, I'm not opposed to the idea if you can find some more unique content to flesh out the mid and high tiers alongside imported vehicles.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Z3r0_

[PacketlossRedux 595]

It might be a good idea to connect the ground forces, air force thread and the future naval thread with having these thread links in all 3 of the thread's introductory part. so you can jump from ground forces to air force or naval without having to search for the other threads, and vica versa. And people who find one of the threads for the first time can easily navigate to the rest.

@MadMax_ITA_ @DarthGergely

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jacky95

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

42 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

It might be a good idea to connect the ground forces, air force thread and the future naval thread with having these thread links in all 3 of the thread's introductory part. so you can jump from ground forces to air force or naval without having to search for the other threads, and vica versa. And people who find one of the threads for the first time can easily navigate to the rest.

@MadMax_ITA_ @DarthGergely

sure will do now, i'll also add some other info

 

2 hours ago, Z3r0_ said:

There's not a whole lot of particularly unique content to be added with a Hungarian tree (and before you bring up the Chinese tree, that was mainly brought over because the dedicated Chinese server is shutting down, plus China was a HUGE player in 20th Century geopolitics and continues to be to this day).  It'd probably be better to add this stuff to the Italian tree; I could see a branch of Hungarian and Romanian fighters being added to the regular tree, while everything else could be put into the bomber and attacker branches.

 

That said, I'm not opposed to the idea if you can find some more unique content to flesh out the mid and high tiers alongside imported vehicles.

the real problem is that hungary has so many ground vehicles that they would need 4 branches in the italian tree.....and that's not something regular. that said of course there are at least 6 other UNIQUE vehicles that still need to be added, so don't worry well flesh it out because it need to be as unique as it can get

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

2 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

sure will do now, i'll also add some other info

 

the real problem is that hungary has so many ground vehicles that they would need 4 branches in the italian tree.....and that's not something regular. that said of course there are at least 6 other UNIQUE vehicles that still need to be added, so don't worry well flesh it out because it need to be as unique as it can get

 

Okay, I'll withhold judgement until then.  Note that I'm talking about this from the perspective of air forces.

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

5 hours ago, Z3r0_ said:

 

Okay, I'll withhold judgement until then.  Note that I'm talking about this from the perspective of air forces.

Sure, I've just added the RMI 1, need to make a separate suggestion with info on that, I'll later add the RMI 8 too

[Rockybrown 61]

Yes!

War Thunder gave China a tree with over 80% copy paste, this tree have a little less copy paste and more nationalistic vehicles made in Magyarország!

 

I can't find any info about the Weiss Manfred WM-123 plane, but if it flew/is acceptable then maybe it could fill in the blank space between He 112 and Fw 190 F-8

Edited October 23, 2019 by Gerhard___Thyben

[PacketlossRedux 595]

8 hours ago, Gerhard___Thyben said:

Yes!

War Thunder gave China a tree with over 80% copy paste, this tree have a little less copy paste and more nationalistic vehicles made in Magyarország!

 

I can't find any info about the Weiss Manfred WM-123 plane, but if it flew/is acceptable then maybe it could fill in the blank space between He 112 and Fw 190 F-8

thats going to be the WM-23 with a DB.605 engne. Dont know if this existed even on a blueprint level, but the WM-23 did, but it crashed and the project was never continued.

Quote

 

The first test flight was done on February 2, 1941, at Szombathely then on 18 March the prototype flew to Csepel. The only problem it had that the aircraft shaked at different places. At first the engineers tried to compensate it with the propellers' and the hub's re-modelling but the WM-23 still resonated. Then the engineers re-modelled the exhaust system of the engine. With this the WM-23 stoped to vibrate at low speed but near its maximum performance - around 530 km/h - the vibrating started again.

During a test flight on April 21, 1942, the right flap of the WM-23 got ripped off at a maximum speed manouvre. The aircraft became uncontrollable and crashed into the forest near Tököl, the test pilot managed to jump out in time. The engineers didn't managed to locate the source of the vibrations.

Because there was no more money for the project to continue and the Hungarian government already favored the mass-production of the Messerschmitt Bf 109 in 1942 the WM-23 project was abandoned, no more aircrafts were produced.

 

 

the engineers might have thought about restarting the project with a new engine...but that would have to be proved first.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jacky95

[DarthGergely 464]

Mi-4 Skin :

https://live.warthunder.com/post/863322/en/ 

[Solarmod 1,203]

I'm hungry for Hungary. +1

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

Khmm Il-10  and  Yak-9P and Tu-2s bomber.

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Dzsigolo_Lanty

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

Helicopter

Airbus H145M

 

[Rieskaruisku 506]

Absolutely yes! Hungary needs it's own tech tree in game as we have few of their vehicles in the game already.

 

+1

[DarthGergely 464]

22 hours ago, Dzsigolo_Lanty said:

Helicopter

Airbus H145M

Thx Lanty for the pics , and for the suggestions  i hope you will have more . THX mate

[Milocat 4,848]

Alright, I'm going to wholeheartedly support this idea after all.  I never expected us to get China or Sweden in the game.  In fact, I remember back when the Italian and French trees were highly speculative.  

 

At this point, anything seems possible, and Hungary definitely has enough vehicles for Air, Ground, and Helicopter trees.  

 

Let's get this ball rolling.  +1.  

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

L-29 Delfin

Hungary People's Army

 18 darab a Magyar Néphadseregben ( 1964-1984 )

Armament

• Guns: 2x 7.62mm machine gun pods on hardpoints
• Hardpoints: 2
• Rockets: 8× air-to-ground rockets
• Bombs: 2× 100 kg (220 lb) bombs
• 
• 
  

Edited October 26, 2019 by Dzsigolo_Lanty

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

L-39ZO

Hungary Air Force

 

L-39ZO (Z for Zbraně – weapons)

Interim weapon trainer variant for export. Four pylons stressed for 500 kg (1,100 lb) (inboard) and 250 kg (550 lb) (outboard), with total external load of 1,150 kg (2,500 lb). First flew 25 June 1975, with initial deliveries to Iraq in 1977. 337 built )

 

24db (1994-2009)

DDR Camouflage  Hungary signal.

New Hungary standart Camouflage 

 New Standard  NATO/Celebration Camouflage

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

Here's a thought that might help to add more to the ranks: why not throw in the Czechs and Slovaks with this tree?  I mean, we've already got some jet trainers they made on here.  Wouldn't be the first time either, what with the Romanians being earmarked for Italy and the Finns for Sweden.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Z3r0_