Type 10 Prototypes

[Tasty95215 2,099]

Type 10 Prototypes

 

This suggestion covers the four "official" Type 10 prototypes, serial numbers 99-0237 through 99-0240. While there are several external differences between these prototypes and the production model Type 10, most of them will not make any gameplay differences in War Thunder. There are a few ways to implement them:

• Without the Type 10 APFSDS, essentially being identical to the production model in all but ammo choice.
• Without their modular side turret armor, as seen in the photo below. Note that the production model Type 10's can remove their side turret armor too.
  Spoiler

  

   

• Both without the Type 10 APFSDS and without their modular side turret armor.

 

History: 

• JGSDF wanted newer/better C4I systems (basically computer command and control) in the 90's
• Renovating the Type 90 and Type 74 was considered, but they were too heavy/old respectively.
• They decided to use one of the Type 90's prototypes, the TKX-0006, as a testbed for new equipment

Tank Test Bed (TTB) was converted from the Type 90 prototype "TKX-0006".

 

• A new 120mm cannon was built and tested around the same time too. This would eventually become the Type 10 120mm gun

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• The prototype tanks themselves were made and tested throughout the mid-late 2000's.

 

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A low-res timeline of the Type 10's development

 

Type 10 APFSDS

• Length: 980 mm
• Mass: 20.5 mm
• Bore: 119.9 mm
• Shot length: 748.0 mm
• Shot mass: 7.8 kg
• Core mass: 4.2 kg
• Core bore: 24.0 mm

Whether or not the Type 10 APFSDS is given to the Type 10 prototypes is up to Gaijin. Personally I think the prototypes not having this shell would make them distinct from the regular Type 10 and could possibly justify a lower battle rating.

 

Name/identification:

• The prototypes are sometimes referred to as "TKX", which literally means "Tank experimental". This designation was also used with the Type 90 prototypes. However, unlike them, the Type 10 prototypes don't have "TKX" written on their nameplates. Instead, it literally just says "Tank #" for the respective prototype (for instance, the first prototype's nameplates says "戦車1号車", which just translates to Tank #1)
  Spoiler

  Nameplate for Type 90 prototype #2, the TKX-0002:

  

   

  Nameplates for Type 10 prototype #1:

  

   

• All of the confirmed prototypes have a chassis number starting with "99". This number shows that the vehicle belongs to the Technical Research & Development Institute, (which was renamed to the Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency after 2015). The first prototype is "99-0237", the second "99-0238", the third "99-0239" and the fourth being "99-0240". All of the production models have chassis numbers starting with "95". When/if the vehicle's affiliation changes, it becomes "95-XXXX".

  Spoiler

  

 

External Differences:

There are several external differences between the Type 10 prototypes and production models. However, for the most part these won't affect gameplay in War Thunder at all. The exceptions are the dozer blade of Prototype 3 and the extra plates of Prototype 4, though these won't make much of a difference at top BR. There are almost certainly more internal differences, but there isn't any information available about those.

 

Here are all of external differences between the prototypes and production models I could find:

Spoiler

• Different upper driver camera (night vision camera?)
• "Muzzle Verification Device" (砲口照合装置) moved from above barrel to beside barrel

 

• No lower camera on the front hull

 

• No storage containers or camouflage net hooks on the side turret armor

 

• Different gunner sight hood

 

 

• Different auxiliary power panel

 

• Smoke grenade launchers changed from individual sockets to one shared opening

 

• More "steps" on the side of the tank

 

• Equipment to the rear of the turret changed - axe, shovel, etc were removed for the production models

 

 

• Headlamps different position (Prototype 3 only)
• Dozer blade (Prototype 3 only)

 

• Plates for mine-clearing device (Prototype 4 only)

 

Place in War Thunder:

• The Type 10 prototypes could work to fill in the tech tree gap between the Type 90 and the Type 10 (whenever that is inevitably added to War Thunder)
• However, they mostly have the same specifications as the standard weight (44 ton) Type 10.
• One way Gaijin could justify having a lower BR than the production-model Type 10 would be to simply not give the Type 10 prototypes the Type 10 APFSDS. Instead, the prototypes would just have the same ammunition as the Type 90 - that being the JM33 APFSDS and the JM12 HEAT-MP.
  • While the Type 10 prototypes could fire the Type 10 APFSDS, and were almost certainly tested with the shell, Gaijin giving tanks limited ammunition choices in the sake of balance(?) already has precedent (see the M833 APFSDS)
  • The Type 10 APFSDS was developed under the name "徹甲弾Ⅲ型" or "徹甲弾IV型" (armor-piercing shell Type III/IV), but it's unclear what differences these shells had to the Type 10 APFSDS
• Another way would be to remove their modular side turret armor, as shown in the picture below. They would be about 40 tons in this configuration. Note that the production model Type 10 tanks could also remove their side turret armor, though I haven't seen any photos of that.

 

Specifications:

Since there doesn't seem to be any exact specifications for the prototypes, these are for the production model Type 10's, from the suggestion thread by aizenns.

Quote

Vehicle	Mass     Light load (without side turret armor)     Normal full load     Add modular armor (guess)	Lower than 40.0 t 44.4 t 48 t?
	Length	9,485 mm
	Width	3,120 mm
	Height	2,300 mm
	Turret length	7,796 mm
	Turret width	2,190 mm
	Turret height	1,445 mm
	Hull length	7,400 mm
	Hull width	3,120 mm
	Hull height	1,660 mm
Engine	V8 water-cooled 4 cycle diesel engine	1200 hp / 2300 rpm
Speed	Front Back	70 km/h 70 km/h
Crew	3
Suspension	Semi-active suspension Active hydropneumatic suspension
Weapons	Japan Steel Works 120mm tank gun	JM33 APFSDS JM12A1 HEAT Type 00 training shell Type 10 blank ammunition Type 10 APFSDS Test shell for 120mm TKG
	Type 74 7.92mm machine gun	1
	12.7mm machine gun	1

 

 

Miscellaneous notes/features:

• Famously, the Type 10 can drive backwards at 70 kph, the same speed as it can drive forwards. They have a camera on the rear of the tank to help with this. This also applies to its prototypes. Below is a video of the first Type 10 prototype, chassis number 99-0237, driving at full speeds backwards. This video dates back to when the Type 10 was first officially announced/revealed in 2010.

• The prototypes' side turret armor can be removed, like the Type 10's. 

• The Type 10 and its prototypes use an autoloader. Apparently its pretty similar to the Type 90's, with two main differences (according to Wikipedia):
  • 14 shells in the autoloader (Type 90's autoloader has 18 shells), with another 2 behind the gunner and 6 in the hull. This leaves the Type 10 with just 22 shells.
  • The autoloader can reload the gun at a wide range of angles regardless of gun elevation, unlike the Type 90.

Type 90 autoloader

 

• Rheinmetall 120mm gun vs the Type 10 120mm gun. While both guns were L/44, the Type 10 120mm gun is lighter and can withstand higher pressures.

Spoiler

Rheinmetall 120mm

 

Type 10 120mm gun

• The trunnion block (metal block behind the gun mantlet/composite armor) is 300mm thick, and likely made from cast steel

   

 

• The Type 10 and its prototypes also have hydropneumatic suspension, like the Type 74 and Type 90. Notably, they can tilt from left to right, which the Type 74 can do but the Type 90 cannot do. Apparently, the system has been improved such that the stabilizer works better while using the suspension.

 

• The Type 10 and its prototypes have night vision for the gunner (including thermals), commander, and driver. As mentioned above, the driver's night vision camera changed between the prototypes and production models. It's unclear how the two types compare with each other.

Prototype driver's night vision camera

 

• Like the Type 90, the Type 10 and its prototypes have laser detection systems on the turret. The one used by the Type 10 is the American "Model301MG laser warning system". It's thought that these work in conjunction with the smoke grenade launchers to protect against ATGM's, similarly to the Type 90.

 

Gallery:

"Prototype 1" (chassis number 99-0237, though the number has apparently been painted over)

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"Prototype 2" (chassis number 99-0238)

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"Prototype 3" (chassis number 99-0239)

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"Prototype 4" (chassis number 99-0240)

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Possible prototypes:

"Prototype 0" (chassis number 99-2014 or 95-2014)

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• Unknown history
• Modular side armor on turret is removed (all Type 10's can do this)
• Similarities to other prototypes:
  • Same number of steps on side of tank
  • Muzzle verification device is above gun, instead of to the side
  • Same position of headlights as prototype 3
• It's hard to tell if the chassis number is 99-0214 or 95-0214
• Name "Prototype 0" is just a placeholder - it doesn't have any known official name

 

6-wheeled Type 10 (chassis number 95-4001)

Spoiler

• Unknown history
• 6 road wheels, like the Type 90 and unlike every other Type 10
  • Sideskirts seem to resemble a Type 90's as well
• Similarities to other prototypes:
  • Separate smoke grenade launcher holes
  • Same number of steps on side of tank
  • Muzzle verification device is above gun, instead of to the side
  • Same position of headlights as prototype 3
• Has the "95" chassis number used by production model Type 10's
• Currently being used for decontamination training at the JGSDF Chemical School

 

Sources:

• http://eaglet.skr.jp/MILITARY/TK-X.htm
• http://www.hyperdouraku.com/military/type10mbt/
• http://type61tank.la.coocan.jp/sub-type10tank.htm
• https://dragoner-jp.blogspot.com/2013/04/10_10.html
• https://dragoner-jp.blogspot.com/2013/04/10_12.html
• https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1bBFzEpjn41OzWhtwL53n8rcMuD277nSN
• http://goinkyox.com/Gunji/Tank/JTank/Type10P2.htm
• https://twitter.com/crazyquail_BT/status/897066634375974912
• https://aobamil.sakura.ne.jp/Photo/10TK-TKX/TKX.html
• https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/10式戦車
• https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/10式戦車砲
• https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/日本のナンバープレート#自衛隊車両_（防衛省）
• 陸上自衛隊10式戦車写真集 (JGSDF Type 10 Photo Album), 浪江俊明, 2013

Edited December 27, 2019 by Tasty95215

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

[aizenns 3,591]

I hope prototype and production of Type 10 tanks comes for game together.

[eleks12 1,079]

gimme all tonks +1

[Milocat 4,854]

+1, Japan needs more high-tier tanks.

[N-Glycerin@psn 89]

+1 need prototype 3 if nothing else. 

[super_cacti 1,071]

People always complain about "oh it's just a Type 10. There are no differences!".

Then I just point towards all the Sherman variants. Or Spitfires, T-34's, Bf 109's, A6M's, and it just goes on.

 

Prototype versions (no matter how close they resemble the production version) are always welcome additions!

And in a case like Japan, any tank that would work ingame and that could be added, should be added!

 

+1! 

[Fireraid233 4,274]

Very well done the Type10s have more variation i hope we can get at least two different type10s maybe 3 if one is a prototype would help the line up big time. So i hope we don't just get one Type10 with mods to add armor. +1

[Solarmod 1,203]

I just want more dozer vehicles. +1

[N-Glycerin@psn 89]

Another +1 for dozers

[Tasty95215 2,099]

I added a bit more information for the Type 10's autoloader. Apparently, the Type 10 can only carry a total of 22 shells, with 14 in the autoloader. That's a lot less than the Type 90, which carries 40 shells total with 18 in the autoloader. That is, assuming I'm translating this Wikipedia quote correctly:

 

Quote

砲弾の搭載弾数については、自動装填装置内で「現時点で14発」とする記事^[9]や、砲塔弾薬庫に14発、砲手の後方に2発、車体に6発の計22発が収納できるとする記事^[14]のほか、90式戦車とほとんど変わらないという記事^[10]があり、こちらでは90式は自動装填装置内と車体内に各18発と戦闘室内に4発の計40発が搭載可能と記述している。

 

I'm not sure how accurate this is, since the Type 10 isn't that much smaller than the Type 90, but there aren't really any other sources for the ammo count of  the Type 10 besides this.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Tasty95215

[Wiggly_Armed_Man 2,383]

I don't want these added in for the same reason as the Type 10 and Type 16, but more so for the former, and that's because basically nothing is known about them. There's no concrete data on how much ammunition it carries, how effective the new 120 mm is or even it's proper designation I believe, and for it's armour but that is also true for the fantasy armour of the Type 90. Even so I wouldn't be against having this added into the game due to the constant powercreep that Gaijin has been doing lately and now the lack of a 10.3 tank for Japan which is hinting at the Type 10 being added. I still don't officially support them being added, but I won't complain about them being added. -1

[Tasty95215 2,099]

1 hour ago, Wiggly_Armed_Man said:

I don't want these added in for the same reason as the Type 10 and Type 16, but more so for the former, and that's because basically nothing is known about them. There's no concrete data on how much ammunition it carries, how effective the new 120 mm is or even it's proper designation I believe, and for it's armour but that is also true for the fantasy armour of the Type 90. Even so I wouldn't be against having this added into the game due to the constant powercreep that Gaijin has been doing lately and now the lack of a 10.3 tank for Japan which is hinting at the Type 10 being added. I still don't officially support them being added, but I won't complain about them being added. -1

 

Funnily, enough, the gun is literally just called the "Type 10 tank gun" (10式戦車砲). But yeah, I get what you're saying - barely anything is known for both the Type 10 and its prototypes and the values Gaijin gives them are almost certainly not their real values. Still, they're probably inevitable at this point, since more and more modern tanks are getting added. My one hope is that when they eventually get added, that the prototypes and production models are correctly modeled and not mixed up.

 

Also, I found a neat (official!) schematic for the Type 90's gun (Rheinmetall 120mm) vs the Type 10's gun (Type 10 120mm tank gun).

 

Rheinmetall 120mm

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Type 10 120mm

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[konngou0224@psn 583]

4 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

there aren't really any other sources for the ammo count of  the Type 10 besides this.

What is the weight of JM33 (DM33).After knowing that,you can see the ammo count of Type10.

Edited October 24, 2019 by *konngou0224

[aizenns 3,591]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tasty95215 said:

All of the confirmed prototypes have a chassis number starting with "99". The first prototype is "99-0237", the second "99-0238", the third "99-0239" and the fourth being "99-0240". All of the production models have chassis numbers starting with "95". However, there are a couple of unconfirmed prototypes that have chassis numbers starting with "95", as listed down below.

 

According to Wikipedia, "99-XXXX" means this vehicle is belong to Technical Research & Development Institute (before 2015), now Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (after 2015).

Even if that is prototype vehicle, when affiliation changed registry number will change to "95-XXXX".

[Wiggly_Armed_Man 2,383]

13 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Funnily, enough, the gun is literally just called the "Type 10 tank gun" (10式戦車砲). But yeah, I get what you're saying - barely anything is known for both the Type 10 and its prototypes and the values Gaijin gives them are almost certainly not their real values. Still, they're probably inevitable at this point, since more and more modern tanks are getting added. My one hope is that when they eventually get added, that the prototypes and production models are correctly modeled and not mixed up.

 

Also, I found a neat (official!) schematic for the Type 90's gun (Rheinmetall 120mm) vs the Type 10's gun (Type 10 120mm tank gun).

 

Rheinmetall 120mm

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Type 10 120mm

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As I said I wouldn't whine if it is added, and like you said it is getting inevitable at this point since this is the only tank that can remotely compete with the 2A7 and other tanks like that which are slowly powercreeping forward. The only hope for it to be added at this moment is if Gaijin would listen to the evidence pointing to the Type 90's turret composite being thinner than it should be since they decided to base it off of the weld lines of the 0002 prototype instead of the production model. Even then it would still be much weaker than tanks like the 2A5, but it'll at least be something, and if its mod. B variant is added along prototypes Japan could have a good lineup of Type 90s at 10.0-10.3, but that's wishful thinking. In the end the Type 10 will end up being overshadowed by other modern tanks because, as much as I hate to admit it, with the current evidence of how much the composites weight compared to contemporaries, while it is double the weight of the Type 90's composite, it doesn't seem like it would reach near the levels of other tanks.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Wiggly_Armed_Man

[Tasty95215 2,099]

10 hours ago, aizenns said:

 

According to Wikipedia, "99-XXXX" means this vehicle is belong to Technical Research & Development Institute (before 2015), now Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (after 2015).

Even if that is prototype vehicle, when affiliation changed registry number will change to "95-XXXX".

 

Thanks! I added this information to the OP.

 

4 hours ago, Wiggly_Armed_Man said:

As I said I wouldn't whine if it is added, and like you said it is getting inevitable at this point since this is the only tank that can remotely compete with the 2A7 and other tanks like that which are slowly powercreeping forward. The only hope for it to be added at this moment is if Gaijin would listen to the evidence pointing to the Type 90's turret composite being thinner than it should be since they decided to base it off of the weld lines of the 0002 prototype instead of the production model. Even then it would still be much weaker than tanks like the 2A5, but it'll at least be something, and if its mod. B variant is added along prototypes Japan could have a good lineup of Type 90s at 10.0-10.3, but that's wishful thinking. In the end the Type 10 will end up being overshadowed by other modern tanks because, as much as I hate to admit it, with the current evidence of how much the composites weight compared to contemporaries, while it is double the weight of the Type 90's composite, it doesn't seem like it would reach near the levels of other tanks.

 

Yeah, the armor being weaker is kind of inevitable considering how much lighter the Type 10 is compared to most other MBT's. The Type 90/Type 10 being physically smaller than other MBT's does help a bit in that regard, but even then they're not that much smaller.

[konngou0224@psn 583]

2 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Yeah, the armor being weaker is kind of inevitable considering how much lighter the Type 10 is compared to most other MBT's.

It's so stupid that the T-90A's armor is only 400mm. But Gaijin says "Japanese tanks? Light armor!" It's discriminatory ...

[Wiggly_Armed_Man 2,383]

With the M1A2 now being introduced I think it's inevitable that we will be getting the Type 10 in some capacity.

[N-Glycerin@psn 89]

What's that old Japanese tanker saying? "Maybe next update" 

[Tasty95215 2,099]

Using pixel measurements, I found the measurement of the Type 10's trunnion block (not sure if that's the right word, but it's the metal block that's behind the tank's gun mantlet and composite armor). It's about 300mm thick:

 

 

This is considerably thicker than the Type 90's block, which is only about 240mm thick:

 

 

Original gun blueprints:

Spoiler

Type 10:

 

Type 90:

 

 

[konngou0224@psn 583]

6 hours ago, Tasty95215 said:

Using pixel measurements, I found the measurement of the Type 10's trunnion block (not sure if that's the right word, but it's the metal block that's behind the tank's gun mantlet and composite armor). It's about 300mm thick:

Type10 gun mantlet is made of special steel and seems to have the same protection as turret composite and hull composite. However, since it is difficult with a single gun mantlet, it can be considered to be protected including the trunnion and mounting part. Increased trunnions will support this.(But don't forget the possibility that the gun shield is a kind of composite material and provides excellent protection by itself.)

Edited October 29, 2019 by *konngou0224

[N-Glycerin@psn 89]

I'm pretty sure it's just called the mount bracket but don't quote me on that. A trunnion is more typically used on small arms like AK family and other stamped weapons. Back to type 10.

[Tasty95215 2,099]

I found a nice photo of all of four of the prototypes all lined up with their side turret armor removed:

 

 

I'm not 100% sure these are actually prototypes #1-4 since their chassis numbers aren't listed, but considering how the third one has the the dozer blade it's probably a safe bet. At the very least, we know they're prototypes of some sort since they have the old style gunner sight, the lack of frontal hull camera, and the number of steps in the sideskirt, among other things.

[N-Glycerin@psn 89]

It feels so weird seeing a tank naked like that.