MKPz T-34-85 (All Variants): Old Tank, New State

[Zombificus 792]

The famed T-34-85, possibly the best Soviet tank of WWII, went on to be mass-produced in huge numbers after the war, both in the USSR proper and in closely-allied states like Poland. When East Germany began to arm itself in the early 1950s, first in the form of the paramilitary Kaisernierte Volkspolizei then from 1956 their first genuine military, the Nationale Volksarmee, they received all of their equipment from the Soviet Union. Among some wildly obsolete WWII-era technology such as T-34-76 medium tanks and SU-76M tank destroyers came a more useful vehicle: the T-34-85, already the de-facto MBT of many Warsaw Pact states, which the DDR adopted as the Mittlerer Kampfpanzer T-34-85. Facing superior opposition from West Germany's NATO defenders, the NVA rapidly expanded their fleet of T-34-85s by importing what they could from the USSR and other Warsaw Pact members; numbers peaked at 1146 in 1958, after which the far more modern MKPz T-54s and T-55s began to replace them. Due to their second-hand nature and the DDR's own minor upgrade attempts, the NVA's T-34-85s came in several different types: the Model 1944, Model 1944 (P), Model 1945 and the first T-34-85M. I'm suggesting the full range of DDR T-34-85s, from which poll voters can decide the best models to add. 

 

 

History:

T-34-85s were amongst the first tanks received by the Kaisernierte Volkspolizei (Barracked People's Police), a paramilitary branch of the East German police which was the nation's first force resembling some kind of military. With no equipment except what the Soviets had provided, the KVP's defensive strategy included plans to use the horrendously obsolete SU-76M in a direct-fire role, supported by equally outdated T-34-76s, while directing their T-34-85s and the few SU-85s and SU-100s delivered by the USSR against NATO tanks. With the Centurion Mk.3 having entered production in 1948, the T-34-85s' opposition in the BAOR and, after 1955, the reestablished West German Bundeswehr, was formidable. The KVP's plan was one cooked up out of desperation, not out of any confidence that their piecemeal tank force could actually oppose the West by itself, even after the delivery of IS-2s. When the KVP was disbanded and replaced by the fully military Nationale Volksarmee (National People's Army), vastly more T-34-85s were imported, which reached peak numbers in 1958 with a total of 1146 units, but there were no illusions amongst the NVA leadership that these tanks alone would be sufficient. Instead, these were to be a stop-gap until true MBTs like the MKPz T-54 and T-55 could be introduced, and afterwards bolster the ranks with a sizeable tank force that could still handle the infantry support role, combat hostile light armour, and fill the NVA's training needs. Nevertheless, most of these tanks were still in service in 1975, when 710 of the aging medium tanks were still serving in second-line and training roles, and even in the very last days of the USSR and DDR, there were still mothballed T-34-85s waiting in warehouses in case a need for them should arise. In 1988, 35 tanks were still listed in the inventory, by which point they might have been in DDR service for up to 35 years depending on when they were acquired. One of the more famous early NVA tanks (unlike their T-34-76s, SUs and IS-2s) and the backbone of their military throughout the 1950s and early 1960s, the DDR's MKPz T-34-85s are one of the best options for NVA vehicles in the tree. 

 

Variants & East German Alterations:

 

A wartime Model 1944's welding, contrasted with a much neater Polish-built tank.

 

The most numerous type operated by the NVA was the T-34-85 Model 1944, which came in two subvariants: wartime production tanks, with roughly welded hulls, and postwar Polish tanks, which had been given the full attention and care since there was no longer such an emphasis on rate of production. There is little functional difference between these vehicles except that the Polish production is likely to have somewhat better quality steel and better quality control overall, since their tanks were not built at the rapid wartime rate and time could be taken to ensure each tank was close to perfect, rather than just "good enough". The in-game Soviet "T-34-85" and Chinese T-34-85 S-53 are both wartime T-34-85 Model 1944s. The game's depiction isn't as extreme with the wear and tear as some historical examples, but is probably quite accurate to the average wartime T-34-85. While this is probably unhistorical, since Polish-built T-55As were designated T-55A(P) by the NVA, I've decided to use the name T-34-85 1944(P) to differentiate Polish T-34s from their wartime counterparts, although unlike T-55A(P)s and regular T-55As, the two types are mechanically identical. An ex-Polish MKPz T-34-85 could be modelled pretty easily by simply cleaning up the texture of the existing S-53 tank: the degree of rust and wear on the in-game S-53 would be innacurate on a '44(P), since those tanks were in pristine factory condition and had been built with smoother postwar steel in the first place. Building on this, if the characteristic East German square box were added to the model's turret rear and its hull-side fuel tanks removed, together with NVA roundels and a purposefully clean texture, it should be fairly easy to differentiate the German vehicle from the Soviet original. This is unlike the Chinese version, which unfortunately doesn't have the same kind of nation-specific identifying features and is therefore a carbon copy of the Soviet tank, both visually and functionally, although it has to be said that besides the visuals, the DDR tank would be identical to the two we already have.

 

A worn-out NVA MKPz T-34-85 1945, and another in better condition on display.

 

The second most common variant is the last wartime T-34-85, the Model 1945, which would go on the make up the majority of postwar T-34 production. Unlike the Model 1944, which is already in War Thunder under two different names, the Model 1945 has some minor upgrades: an electric turret drive, and smoke grenade launchers. The first upgrade gives a much faster turret rotation speed, since the heavy turret and gun no longer needs to be hand-cranked, whereas the second gives the tank the ability to cover itself while making a retreat, such as when its gunner has been knocked out. Both would meaningfully improve the tank, making it a better close quarters fighter overall, and as such it's an exciting option for the DDR. That said, I can also imagine that USSR players would be displeased to have another nation receive a superior model, so if a DDR Model 1945 were added I'd definitely want to see the USSR get something to even things out. This could involve the "T-34-85" in the USSR tree being either upgraded to the same standard or receiving the 1945 model's electric drive and smoke launchers available as modifications, or for that tank to be supplemented by the even better Model 1946, which also has an improved engine and road wheels. As the Model 1945s the DDR received were all wartime production, the cleanliness of the Polish T-34-85 Model 1944s would not be replicated on these tanks. In fact, the few photos I've found of DDR Model 1945s show that they were noticeably rougher in exterior than the T-34-85s in War Thunder, which would ideally be replicated with an appropriately rough and worn texture. A purely visual change with the Model 1945 to take note of when modelling it is the replacement of the original 2-piece hatch seen on all in-game T-34-85s with a new, one-piece design. On the subject of minor details, DDR Model 1945s could once again have the NVA-specific rectangular storage box at the turret rear seen on many DDR T-34-85s, which would be a good way to make it identifiable as an East German tank from the rear, where its roundels wouldn't be visible. 

NVA T-34-85M Model 1960s, both featuring a range of fuel tanks and storage boxes.

 

A lesser-seen model, but one the DDR definitely had in some quantity, is the T-34-85M. Which of the two variants most commonly called "T-34-85M" these vehicles were isn't stated clearly in any sources, but the evidence points to them being the lesser upgrade, AKA Model 1960, rather than the 'real' T-34-85M, the Model 1969. Photos of fully-equipped "T-34-85M" tanks being used in training in 1964 points pretty conclusively to the 1960 model having been in NVA service, whereas proof that any Model 1969 upgrades were carried out remains elusive, and while they were still being used in large numbers in 1975, these were most likely training tanks whose further upgrading from Model 1960 to Model 1969 would not, in my opinion, make a lot of sense. Since the Model 1960 is the only one we know for certain was used, I'm only going to describe that upgrade's alterations from the preceding Models 1945 and 1946. The T-34-85 Model 1960 received a new engine (the second such upgrade, following the earlier Model 1946), a battery generator (meaning its turret could be powered even when the engine was off or disabled), a sight for the driver, and an infrared lamp on the hull front. Although it's not specified, I assume that since the T-34-85 already has a driver's port (obviously), and the driver's sight and IR lamp are talked about together, the sight would most likely be an IR one to allow the driver to drive safely at night without employing the vehicle's headlights. In this case, the Model 1960 has similar night vision characteristics to tanks like the M42 Duster and M41A1 Walker Bulldog, which only have NVD for the driver and not the gunner. By 1960, and certainly 1964, improved 85mm rounds such as those fielded by the 1959 ASU-85 might have been available to the DDR's T-34-85s -- while the USSR's consistent refusal to provide the most modern ammo to the DDR means that the 3BK7 HEATFS shell would almost certainly not have been available, the BR-372 APBC shell would be quite plausible and, with 230mm of penetration, provide a serious firepower upgrade. A minor detail that makes the Model 1960 stand out is the small splash plate above the upper glacis track armour, and another very easy way to make this variant stand out would be to, in addition to the usual DDR rectangular storage box on the turret rear, add some of the dizzying amounts of fuel canisters the East German vehicles could carry. Overall, this model is the easiest to make visually identifiable as a separate vehicle from the existing USSR and Chinese T-34-85s.

 

Specifications:

 

 

Length: 6.68m

Width: 3.00m

Height: 2.45m

Weight: 32.2 tons

Crew: 5 (Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

Primary Armament: 85mm ZiS-S-53 gun (60 rounds); BR-372 APBC shells available for Model 1960 only

Secondary Armament: 7.62mm DT machine gun (1890 rounds)

Armament Details: -5 to 22 degrees elevation; powered traverse on Models 1945 and 1960

Turret Armour: 90mm+40mm mantlet, 90mm front, 52-75mm sides, 52mm rear, 20mm roof

Hull Armour: 47mm upper glacis, 45mm lower glacis, 65mm MG port, 75mm driver's hatch, 45mm sides and rear, 20mm roof

Engine: V-2-34 V12 500 hp diesel engine (Models 1944 and 1945); V-2-3411 V12 520 hp diesel engine (Model 1960)

Max Speed: 33 mph

NVD: IR lamp on the front of hull, for the driver's night-driving sight; no NVD for gunner's sight

Smoke: TDP Smoke System firing either MDSh or BDSh smoke grenades (Models 1945 and 1960, respectively); Model 1944 has no smoke devices

Generator: Model 1960 only

 

Their Place In War Thunder:

 

The MKPz T-34-85 is one of the most significant East German tanks and, thanks to the many variants operated, would also provide the opportunity for Germany to receive some more unique models of the tank. If the much-requested East German tree or line is ever to become a workable thing, tanks like these will be needed in order for any useful lineups to be formed. Two or three T-34-85s, a postwar SU-85, an SU-100 and one or more IS-2s would be a fairly formidable set of tanks, but without the T-34s, the whole thing falls apart. I was surprised that these vehicle hadn't been suggested already, since even if you don't want them in the tree, I think you'll agree that they are significant enough for an event or premium implementation. The number of different types of T-34 operated by the USSR also allows for Germany to potentially have some variants unique to their tree, without having better models than the tank's home country. For example, both the USSR and China already have the Model 1944, whereas instead of Models 1945 and 1960, the USSR could receive the superior Models 1946 and 1969. This way, Germany would have its own worthwhile variants of the T-34, while the USSR itself retains the very best models -- there's also no reason the USSR would get all four models in the first place, since the Model 1969 renders the 1960 redundant, as the 1946 does to the 1945, making it pointless to include them all in the same tree. If we excluded the Model 1944, which isn't as needed for a lineup as the other two, then there's a real chance for the German tree to get T-34-85 models entirely unique to itself, which the USSR could counter with its own pick of the postwar variants. Hopefully, a potential East German T-34-85 could reignite interest in late-model USSR T-34s and give tanks like Model 1969 the necessary push to get added. In any case, the MKPz T-34-85s were crucial tanks for the early East German armed forces and would be a worthy addition to the game. 

 

I hope you like these tanks, and I look forward to hearing from you in the comments!

 

More Pictures:

 

Spoiler

 

A page from Tankograd's special on NVA T-34s, showing the variety of boxes and fuel tanks that could be added to these tanks. 

 

A Polish-made Model 1944.

 

A surviving tank (not ex-NVA) with similarly high-quality construction. 

 

The hull front of a Polish-made postwar Model 1944.

 

A wartime Model 1944's hull front.

 

A Model 1944.

 

From behind.

 

A Model 1944 with an "oven" (possible mistranslation) affixed to the hull rear. 

 

Another view of the "oven". 

 

Another Tankograd page, showing a pair of Model 1944s.

 

A Model 1945, showing the extremes of rough texture on some wartime tanks.

 

A Model 1945 in somewhat better condition.

 

And one in quite nice condition, not much worse than the Polish Model 1944. 

 

A kitted-out Model 1960 / T-34-85M.

 

A much worse for wear Model 1960. 

 

A Model 1960 on a training exercise, note the T-34-76 behind it.

 

The crew of a Model 1960 takes a break to eat and drink.

 

A Model 1960 with many fuel tanks, the splash plate and rear-turret box.

 

A MKPz T-34-85 on the move, which might be a Model 1960 judging by the splash plate.

 

MKPz T-34-85s during training.

 

Tankers stand in front of their MKPz T-34-85. 

 

A MKPz T-34-85 on a training exercise.

 

 

 

MKPz T-34-85 On Video:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sources:

 

"T 34 NVA The Soviet T-34 Tank and its Variants in Service with the East German Army (NVA)" by Tankograd Publishing (Selected pages spoilered below):

 

Spoiler

 

"Die Landstreitkräfte der NVA" (Kopenhagen 2003) (Relevant page spoilered below):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Bestimmungsbuch/5gepKetFhrmitTurm/57/57.html (Source on DDR T-34-85s, in German)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Variants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34_variants#Tanks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_model_V-2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany#National_People's_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People's_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasernierte_Volkspolizei

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr#Cold_War_1955–1990

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_(tank)#Centurion_production_mark_numbers

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=38

Edited November 21, 2019 by Zombificus

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

I would be fine with the 1960 variant as it was extensively upgraded making it distinct from other Soviet T34s but I think I will have to pass on the others simply because they are not needed.

[Ghostmaxi 873]

you can only choose 1 vehicle in the poll....

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

+1 to the 1960 T-34-85M. It could be a great 6.0 imo!

[Zombificus 792]

6 minutes ago, Ghostmaxi said:

you can only choose 1 vehicle in the poll....

Sorry about that, it should be fixed now!

[Milocat 4,854]

Yes, but we should really split Germany into East and West before we add these.  Imagine the whining if German players start spamming Tigers, Panthers, AND T-34-85s.  

 

+1 with reservations.

[eleks12 1,079]

+1

[Zombificus 792]

1 minute ago, Milocat said:

Yes, but we should really split Germany into East and West before we add these.  Imagine the whining if German players start spamming Tigers, Panthers, AND T-34-85s.  

 

+1 with reservations.

Yeah, I’ve been trying to flesh out the suggestions for lower-tier East German stuff so that a split tree would be more doable. That 14.5mm AA armoured car I suggested would be a bit lower in BR than these, but I’m hoping it would still work OK in a lineup. It’d be nice to have a proper sub-tree, but while there’s plenty of Tier I-capable armoured cars, I don’t think there are any Tier II options, so I’ve been focusing on the Tier III/IV transition instead with things like these T-34s and the IS-2.
 

A split tree from about 5.0 should work OK, I think — they have an SU-85 with SU-85M’s shells, a few PT-76 models we don’t have yet (including one unique to the DDR), these T-34s, the IS-2(s), and maybe their SU-100. They also used ASU-57s, but I’m not willing to take the backlash for suggesting Germany get its own one of those monsters. That would be a strong start, and of course we have all the T-54/55/72s later on, but I still have a few to get through before I suggest my own split tree idea.

 

Thanks for the support, even if it does come with some (very understandable) reservations! 

[KOISHI_KOMEIJI 194]

Could be cool, but in an ther way, it make the t34 more and more mainstream

[Solarmod 1,203]

I'd like to see this as a part of an East German tab, yeah. +1

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[Toxindragon 10]

+1 I would love to see the T-34-85M (1960) ingame. The T-34-85s in general are really fun and it would be a great, unique addition to the german techtree.

[hienapunk 1,064]

I approve of tech tree versions of the t34/85, su100, and is2 for an East German line, but only in the very latest configurations possible to help pull them away from being in ww2 battles with the wehrmacht stuff.

Edited April 27, 2023 by hienapunk

[Valcour 1,141]

I'd like to see the inclusion of the 1960 variant of the T-34.  I also would like to see (that variant) it as unique to the German tree with the fixed DDR roundel.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Valcour

[warner7 81]

1960, since it is distinct

Edited April 28, 2023 by warner7