North Korean Ground Forces Tech Tree

[PikPikker 444]

Hello, I'm going to suggest adding North Korea as a new nation to the game, and here is North Korean Ground Forces Tech Tree:

https://pikpikker.neocities.org/dprk_wt.html

This is my own site where you can enlarge every picture and click any tank to read about it!

The tree as a picture:

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North Korea is a large manufacturer of military stuff. There are lots of unique North Korean vehicles seen during parades, and seeing them in their own tech tree is the best option. You may see there is an option to introduce North Korea jointly with South Korea, but my opinion is they should be split apart, because their relations were not good enough. And they have very different military histories indeed.

 

Many North Korean vehicles are named M[year] - which means in what year they were first observed.

Some vehicles have MANPADS (man-portable air defense system - light anti-air missiles) installed on board, so they can fit air defence role.

 

Caution! This tree breaks time frames in the game, because here is post-war vehicles everywhere, even on rank 1.

 

Now I will give a little review on each line.

Line 1 - tank destroyers. The line is full of indigenous North Korean self-propelled guns, but the top tier vehicle is one of the most interesting battle machines ever - because it has triple 370 mm recoilless gun!

Line 2 - light tanks. North Korea cannot be proud of a wide range of light tanks, but what they have is still interesting tanks like PT-85 - a successor of Soviet PT-76, but better from all sides.

Line 3 - medium tanks. The line begins with lots of copies, but there is no disappointment because later it is filled with many modifications of North Korean MBTs.

Line 4 - SPAAGs. Again, a line of unique SPAAGs, from North Korea this time.

 

Some words about my tech tree.

At first, I tried avoiding too many copies - and that is why not all the North Korean tanks might be here (for example, I avoided some import tanks like non-modernized T-55).

All the BRs are approximate (or can be totally wrong), and were set as for arcade mode.

All the shown premium tanks can be implemented as available for purchase for Lions, pack specials or any others.

I expect VTT-323 and BTR-60PB to be the Reserve tanks.

Also there are only 5 tanks on rank 3, but it does not go against the game system of research: Italy has only 5 necessary vehicles to research on rank 3.

 

Vehicle count:

Rank 1: 7 (for research) + 0 (premiums)

Rank 2: 7 + 1

Rank 3: 5 + 3

Rank 4: 13 + 3

Rank 5: 12 + 5

Rank 6: 20 + 5

Rank 7: 7

Total: 88 vehicles (71 without premiums)

 

Here is the vehicle list with all the tank pictures, but only some of them has a description. You can access decent sources for all other tanks from my site (I will also answer all the questions regarding my tree if you have any!).

 

Vehicles

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Line 1 - tank destroyers

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SU-76M

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M1974 122 mm

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M1974 152 mm

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M1985 152 mm

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M1991 152 mm

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323 85 mm

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M1972 100 mm

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323 100 mm

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M1981 122 mm

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M1992 130 mm B

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M1992 130 mm A

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M1975 130 mm A

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M1992 Chuch'e-Po 122 mm

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M1977 122 mm

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M1985 122 mm

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A bit modernized variant of the previous vehicle. Armed with the same 122 mm D-30 howitzer.

M1992 120 mm

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North Korean SPG with 120 mm mortar as an analogue for Soviet Nona-S.

M2018 152 mm

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M1978 170 mm Koksan

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M1989 170 mm Koksan

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M1984 370 mm

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A North Korean tracked monster - triple 370 mm recoilless gun mount. It is unknown what it was built for.

 

Line 2 - light tanks

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VTT-323

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Version armed with only double KPVT.

BTR-60PB

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M2009 Chunma-D

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M2010

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M2010 Chunma-D

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PT-76B

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PT-85

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M2009 Chunma-D MANPADS

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M2010 MANPADS

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M2010 Chunma-D MANPADS

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VTT-323 Basic

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"Basic" configuration with double KPVT, Malyutka ATGM and MANPADS

PT-85 Malyutka

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VTT-323 Susong-Po

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Antitank version with ATGM

UAZ-469 ATGM

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M1992 ATGM

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M2018

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New modern North Korean ATGM system, presumably Spike missile analogue.

 

Line 3 - medium tanks

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Cromwell V

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T-34-76 (1942)

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T-34-76 (1943)

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T-34-85 (D-5T)

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T-34-85

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IS-2 (1944)

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T-54-2

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T-54-3

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Type 59

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Type 59 with MG mount on turret top

Type 59 MANPADS

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T-55 Slat Armor

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Ch'onma-Ho I

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Ch'onma-Ho II

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Ch'onma-Ho III

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Ch'onma-Ho IV

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Ch'onma-Ho V

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Ch'onma-Ho VI

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Pokpung-ho I

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Pokpung-ho II

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Pokpung-ho III

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Pokpung-ho IV

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Line 4 - SPAAGs

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VTT-323 APC 12.7 mm

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Rare version as APC with MG on top, might work as anti-air

SR 131 ZPU-4

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323 ZPU-4

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M1984 ZPU-4

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M1978 37 mm

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ZiL-130 MANPADS

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ZiL-131 MANPADS

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ZiL-130 ZPU-4 MANPADS

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M1978 37 mm MANPADS

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M1985 57 mm

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M1989 30 mm

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VTT-323 SAM

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VTT-323 SAM configuration for air defence

ZiL-130 RPO-A Shmel

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M2018 HT-16PCJ

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Strela-10 modernized to carry North Korean HT-16PCJ SAM, a clone of Soviet Igla.

 

Line 5, 6 - premiums

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BM-13

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Sungri-61NA 107 mm MLRS

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VTT-323 107 mm MLRS

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M1992 107 mm MLRS

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Tokch'on 152 mm

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Type 63

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Type 63 with MG on turret top

Sungri MLRS MANPADS

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M1975 130 mm B

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VTT-323 122 mm MLRS

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Tatra 813 MLRS

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M1981 122 mm MANPADS

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BTR-80A

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M1975 130 mm MANPADS

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M1985 122 mm MANPADS

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RM-70

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Ch'onma-ho II MANPADS

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KN-09

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Sources

The full list of sources is pretty large, and you can access it here: https://pikpikker.neocities.org/about.html

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by PikPikker
Adding new vehicles

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1
I really want to see a stand-alone tree rather than 2 trees put together.
I'd also like to suggest you add some of the following vehicles:
M1992 Armoured personal carrier.


Modified SA-13 short-range air defense system with new missile weapon station



RM-70 122mm MLRS


KN-09


Some sort of North Korean jeep with an ATGM

 

[PlanyKaanere 722]

I'm not sure if it's possible to add North Korean vehicles to the game. Researching them will be a pain since I doubt that the DPRK would open its archives to foreign companies (or anyone, really). For instance, we don't even know the Korean designations for many of these vehicles, just their western reporting names.

 

But if they manage to get arround that issue, then sure, +1! Although maybe it should start at Rank V and you reach it by arriving at that Rank with another nation, as some people were suggesting with China.

[eleks12 1,079]

I only support a United Korea tree!

 

 

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1 

 

I support it fully. 

 

North Korea is actually more militarily advanced than Iran and India, so why not.

[PikPikker 444]

7 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

+1
I really want to see a stand-alone tree rather than 2 trees put together.
I'd also like to suggest you add some of the following vehicles:
M1992 Armoured personal carrier.

Modified SA-13 short-range air defense system with new missile weapon station

RM-70 122mm MLRS

KN-09

Some sort of North Korean jeep with an ATGM

 

Thank you! New vehicles have been added 

[GildyMenn21@psn 482]

Even tho North Korea is capable of having an stand alone Tree i rather choose an United Korea as you can taste both nation military development at ones then that you will have to grind 2 trees separate and neither will be left behind in dust will the other gets added. I do have several questions:

1 : are their any information about the vehicles past the 80s they own, like performance and armor protection?

2 : What about there Air Tree? Gaijin never adds an Faction without an proper Air Tree.

3 : If North Korea gets their standalone Tech Tree is this for South Korea possible aswell?

4 : About the line of “relationships were not good Enough” tho you mean the past or present day? In 2019 their relationship is has been starting to grow bigger especially when the President of South Korea proposed an Unification of North and South Korea like almost an 1 nation 2 systems that is quite far from not good enough. 
 

 
 

[Roger13R@psn 1,138]

-1 Gaijin will never be able to get all the proper resources needed to compile a whole DPRK TT. They don't like foreigners entering thier country and I highly doubt they will release any kind of information to countries abroad. Would be nice though if possible. I just think this thread is a waste of time IMO.

[PikPikker 444]

43 minutes ago, *GildyMenn21 said:

Even tho North Korea is capable of having an stand alone Tree i rather choose an United Korea as you can taste both nation military development at ones then that you will have to grind 2 trees separate and neither will be left behind in dust will the other gets added. I do have several questions:

1 : are their any information about the vehicles past the 80s they own, like performance and armor protection?

2 : What about there Air Tree? Gaijin never adds an Faction without an proper Air Tree.

3 : If North Korea gets their standalone Tech Tree is this for South Korea possible aswell?

4 : About the line of “relationships were not good Enough” tho you mean the past or present day? In 2019 their relationship is has been starting to grow bigger especially when the President of South Korea proposed an Unification of North and South Korea like almost an 1 nation 2 systems that is quite far from not good enough. 

 

1) For example, we know most of the SPGs are based on Soviet ATS transporter, so we can take specifications of it including engine, transmission and armor. And we know what guns they used. In summary it might be enough to make these machines for the game. Maybe not 100% correct, but about 90% at least.

2) I know there should be an air tree, but I do not make any air stuff because I do not know about them enough.According to the United Korea topic, there should be enough planes for North Korea.

3) I would not have started North Korean independent tech tree if the same would be impossible for South Korea. South Korean TT is WIP currently.

4) Maybe their relations is friendly today, but there was Korean War which falls for the vehicles of ranks 1-3, and it would look strange to see enemies in the same tree, in my opinion.

[GildyMenn21@psn 482]

3 hours ago, PikPikker said:

 

1) For example, we know most of the SPGs are based on Soviet ATS transporter, so we can take specifications of it including engine, transmission and armor. And we know what guns they used. In summary it might be enough to make these machines for the game. Maybe not 100% correct, but about 90% at least.

You can’t really rely on vehicles that they base them off especially when most of them have been fairly improved, the North Korean (domestic) MBTs are an example of that as they have lots of variants of each vehicle while also each of them has an improved over another. So the information on the performance and armor protection might be 40% to 75% accurate.

3 hours ago, PikPikker said:

2) I know there should be an air tree, but I do not make any air stuff because I do not know about them enough.According to the United Korea topic, there should be enough planes for North Korea.

Yes thats my bad forgot you only focused on Ground Forces but yes according to United Korea Topic NK would have enough vehicles for an Tech Tree but their still isn’t an clear information about certain aircarft.
I have shared an link in the United Korea Topic about ex-japanese weapons being used in the Korean War so far non of these fighter aircraft listed  has participated in the War but have instead been grounded in several location (K-bases) in NK and probable SK but after that NK burned all of these aircrafts apparently, so i can’t really tell if this is a legitimate source if not the Air Tree would lack a lot. Link shared and possible Source :
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/wwii-japanese-weapons-in-the-korean-war/

3 hours ago, PikPikker said:

3) I would not have started North Korean independent tech tree if the same would be impossible for South Korea. South Korean TT is WIP currently.

Well then im looking forward for you to share it with use when finished only there is a problem which probable wont let SK have its own standalone Tree, the Air Tree is mainly reason why, like mentioned in my 2nd Question “Gaijin will never add an faction without an proper Air Tree”. South Korea didn’t had an proper Air Forces until the U.S. got involved into the Korean War before this hole war they only had an ex japanese Trainer aircraft that didn't held an weaponary. The first combat ready aircraft would have been F-51(P-51), look up Page 11.”Bout One”

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Portals/7/documents/education/teacher_resource_korean_war.pdf

Look at Page 18. Chapter 1.

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/portal/files/2926907/482081.pdf

3 hours ago, PikPikker said:

4) Maybe their relations is friendly today, but there was Korean War which falls for the vehicles of ranks 1-3, and it would look strange to see enemies in the same tree, in my opinion.

I do understand that back then these 2 nation had an rough relationship but relationships barely comes into consideration in-game look at China and Taiwan for example their relationship isn’t good either but still got unified in-game. I do respect your opinion but if Koreans are okay with this unified idea then im cool with it if not i understand and respect their opinion.

 

BTW. Thank you for replying will see what the community thinks and mostly the Koreans.

Edited January 18, 2020 by *GildyMenn21

[PrussianOwl 438]

Should be added as either United Korea, as part of China, or Pan-Asia. I lean towards adding them to the China tree.

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

I prefer a United Korean Tech Tree. Bec. there is no such a need while We have Chinese Tech Tree... But a combined Tech Tree would suit so much better 

[Borotovas 4,500]

It seems like Iran used the Ch’ŏnma-ho tank. I suppose it could be a premium for this tech tree.

 

 

I posted about this tank in my Arab-Iranian tech tree.

 

 

[eleks12 1,079]

 

Image Spam.

Spoiler

 

https://defence-blog.com/news/army/north-korea-creates-its-own-version-of-russian-armata-tank.html source.

Edited October 10, 2020 by eleks12

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

 

I still support this idea. But I think that it would be best to have a single unified Korean tech tree.

[PlanyKaanere 722]

1 hour ago, Borotovas said:

+1

 

I still support this idea. But I think that it would be best to have a single unified Korean tech tree.

 

The devs already have trouble finding information on contemporary PLA tanks, I can't imagine what researching NK tanks would be like.

[Borotovas 4,500]

2 hours ago, PlanyKaanere said:

The devs already have trouble finding information on contemporary PLA tanks, I can't imagine what researching NK tanks would be like.

 

Some of them may be hard to find, but estimates do exist. Also, North Korea sells weapons, so it shouldn't be too hard to find catalogs for North Korean weapons that are for sale, with all the data.

 

If this is a united Korean TT, then a lot of South Korean tanks will also be present, which there is more information on.

[BroccoliHotSauce 440]

It's kinda bad to say it, but you guys realize that North Korean people wont be able to play the game, right?

... Anyways, can't all just be on China tech tree?

[Borotovas 4,500]

36 minutes ago, BroccoliHotSauce said:

It's kinda bad to say it, but you guys realize that North Korean people wont be able to play the game, right?

... Anyways, can't all just be on China tech tree?

 

North Koreans outside of North Korea could play it. And in Pyongyang, there are computers with internet access.

 

The Koreas are very different from China. I don't think that Korea would fit in there.

[GildyMenn21@psn 482]

58 minutes ago, BroccoliHotSauce said:

... Anyways, can't all just be on China tech tree?

It depends on what vehicles we talking about 
most of the DPRK vehicles are based of Russian designs so placing them China is like placing the Mexas in the UK. 
 

Although these vehicles could be present in the Russian or Chinese tree i rather see them in United Korean Tree.

[PlanyKaanere 722]

2 hours ago, Borotovas said:

 

North Koreans outside of North Korea could play it. And in Pyongyang, there are computers with internet access.

 

 

The North Korean diaspora probably isn't large enough to cater to. There are about 9000 in South Korea and 5000 in China, not enough to make a difference in the game. I'm also not sure if many of them would want to play with vehicles from a regime they left.

Also, access to the general Internet is restricted to government purposes. North Korean citizens have access to a private network called Kwangmyong, which works just like the Internet but is completely isolated from it. They won't allow any foreign software in it, especially a game like War Thunder with a focus on different nations.

[Borotovas 4,500]

20 minutes ago, PlanyKaanere said:

The North Korean diaspora probably isn't large enough to cater to. There are about 9000 in South Korea and 5000 in China, not enough to make a difference in the game. I'm also not sure if many of them would want to play with vehicles from a regime they left.

Also, access to the general Internet is restricted to government purposes. North Korean citizens have access to a private network called Kwangmyong, which works just like the Internet but is completely isolated from it. They won't allow any foreign software in it, especially a game like War Thunder with a focus on different nations.

 

Okay, if we are actually looking at the number of players, South Korea has a population of 51 million people. I'm sure that they would not mind playing War Thunder, if a united Korea was represented in-game and Gaijin advertised War Thunder in Korea.

 

Keep in mind that 51 million people is more than the 10 million people Sweden has; and Sweden, which is a far less populated country, is represented in War Thunder.

 

From a business perspective, it makes more sense to add Korea than it did Sweden; because Korea has a large population and a large gaming culture.

 

Also, War Thunder used to originally include the "Korean War" era, as said many times officially, yet you can't play as Korea.

 

3 hours ago, GildyMenn21@psn said:

It depends on what vehicles we talking about 
most of the DPRK vehicles are based of Russian designs so placing them China is like placing the Mexas in the UK. 
 

Although these vehicles could be present in the Russian or Chinese tree i rather see them in United Korean Tree.

 

From a business perspective, adding Korea into WT and advertising WT to 51 million Koreans makes a lot of sense. If there is just 1 Korean premium, Korean people won't really notice it.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Borotovas

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

The thing is Koreans are not being cool towards to Unification as other examples... So nothing really stops Gaijin to represent them in a United Korean TT. They won't even have flag issue like what happened in Chinese TT since they have semi-official Korean Unification Flag

 

 

11 hours ago, Borotovas said:

Also, War Thunder used to originally include the "Korean War" era, as said many times officially, yet you can't play as Korea.

 

And I agree with this, the game also focuses on Korean War and Vietnam War area either which is quite important and interesting for Koreans.

Just the main problem is Aviation doesn't really offer us much which is main problem with many other suggestions 

[eleks12 1,079]

8 minutes ago, CneuHa3_TUR said:

The thing is Koreans are not being cool towards to Unification as other examples... So nothing really stops Gaijin to represent them in a United Korean TT. They won't even have flag issue like what happened in Chinese TT since they have semi-official Korean Unification Flag

 

 

 

And I agree with this, the game also focuses on Korean War and Vietnam War area either which is quite important and interesting for Koreans.

Just the main problem is Aviation doesn't really offer us much which is main problem with many other suggestions 

 

Well a Korean Tech Tree will basically just China 2.0.

 

Me personally i don't really mind these types of trees ingame. Though i do understand why some players are sick of Grinding the M48 for 8th time.

And to the people asking if im grinding China. Yes i do grind the Ground tree where i just reached Rank 5 a week ago.

 

So i support a Unified Korean Tech Tree.

Edited October 29, 2020 by eleks12
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