Autocannone 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro "Unconventional fighter"

[Taffu92 557]

Hy everyone, this time I want to suggest to you the autocannone 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro

I want to apologize in advance as this will be a pretty lengthy read, especially on the ammunition part.

I still Hope you can enjoy it.

 

BRIEF HISTORY:

 

Spoiler

Initially built to quickly deploy the Skoda 100/17 cannon, the autocannone 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro proved, like other machines of the autocannone family, to be an exceptionally versatile addition to the Italian army in the North African theatre.

 

In December 1941 a battery of 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro was added to the 12° raggruppamento ( 12^th group) of the “Batterie Volanti” (Fliyng Batteries) and took part of the battle of the Marmarica.

Another batch of 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro was commissioned to replace the losses of the 13^th battery of 3^rd group of the MILMART, as it was almost wiped out that year.

 

Then, in March 1942, a new group was formed to maximize the qualities of the 100/17 and the 65/17 cannons: the Raggruppamento Celere Africa Settentrionale.

The new group was composed by a mix of autocannoni 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro and 65/17 on Morris jeeps and proved to be extremely effective as a rapid response unit, mostly thanks to the good speed of those machines, the power of the 100/17 EP shells for the 100mm cannon and the ability to fire without anchoring the machine on the ground, making them capable of rapid hit and run tactics.

 

By the end of 1942 this new group was disbanded and all the batteries in it were given to the “Giovani Fascisti” armored division and fought to the very end of the African campaign in Tunisia.

 

After Italy’s armistice several pieces of the 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro were confiscated by the Germans that later stripped the gun from its original chassis and used it as static artillery

 

Bonus History:

In these two videos from Archivio Luce you’ll see how the 100/17 su Lancia 3Ro moved in formation, prepared itself and fired, but, more importantly, you’ll see another little machine always moving near it, that is the 65/17 on Morris Jeep.

After the first battle with the “12° raggruppamento” these two machines became inseparable, as they completed each other, the 65/17 on Morris acting mostly as a scout thanks to its speed and the 100/17 on Lancia 3Ro as a tank-destroyer, thanks to its powerful EP and EPS rounds.

 

Here's the videos, both from the battle of the Marmarica: (the first one from 0:00 to 2:20, the second one from 0:00 to 1:50)

https://patrimonio.archivioluce.com/luce-web/detail/IL5000015429/2/africa-settentrionale.html?startPage=0

https://patrimonio.archivioluce.com/luce-web/detail/IL5000015479/2/visioni-della-battaglia-della-marmarica.html?startPage=40

 

 

ENGINE AND CHASSIS:

For this project the Italians chose the second most reliable heavy truck at their disposal, the Lancia 3Ro.

 

Compared to the Fiat 634N the 3Ro was 1t lighter (5610Kg compared to the 6360Kg of the 634N), but could also carry almost 1.5t less.

The lighter chassis, coupled with a far more powerful engine than the 634N (93Hp at 1.860rpm), made the Lancia 3Ro more responsive and faster than its counterpart on the road, while maintaining the same maximum speed of the 634N off-road.

 

The suspension mechanism was also reinforced and coupled the original spring leaf suspensions with another set of springs on the front and shock absorbers on the back.

Here’s a photo of the Lancia 3Ro chassis:

Spoiler

 

THE CREW:

The crew was composed of 6 crewmembers total, the driver, the commander, 2 gunners and 2 loaders.

 

While the driver and the commander sat in the cabin of the machine, the other four members were positioned on a makeshift bench right after the ammunition boxes.

This bench was fixed on the chassis as the ammo boxes could be easily opened from above.

 

As the other Autocannoni in service in the Italian army this machine offered basically no protection to the crew, relying mostly on long range bombardments or hit and run tactics.

Here's a photo of the crew:

Spoiler

 

 And how they operated the gun:

Spoiler

 

ARMAMENT AND AMMO:

Now for the gun, as it is the main reason why I called this machine “Unusual fighter”.

 

That’s because the 100/17 cannon wasn’t equipped with any sort of AP round, but relied instead only on chemical projectiles. (Like the Sherman 105 in the American tree)

 

One of them is also a heavily requested one on the Italian side of the forums, and this could be a nice way to bring it to the game, I’m talking about the Italian version of the HESH round, the Effetto Pronto.

 

But, starting in a chronological order, the first shell that the 100/17 had until the beginning of 1942 was the Granata da 100 Mod 32, a 13,756Kg pure HE round with 2.218Kg of explosive mass.

This round was initially tested against the sides of a captured BT-7 and was able to successfully penetrate the 15mm armor plates.^[1]

 

This wasn’t still enough to counter all the new threats on the battlefield, like the mighty KVs, so, a new round was developed, the Effetto Pronto.(E.P.)

 

On a comparison test in Deba’s polygon (Poland), the Germans and the Italians tested their new E.P. using the German 105 HEAT round as standard.

While the performance of the E.P. round for the 65mm and 75mm cannons didn’t impress the German officers (barely doing any damage on a 40mm plate) the E.P. round for the 100mm caliber showed instead impressive results, dealing massive damage to the turret and the frontal part of a captured T-34.

 

Here’s the images of the damage on the T-34 in the test:

Spoiler

The round was also tested on the 75mm turret of a captured KV1 with an angle of 15° and, even there, showed massive spalling effects on the inside of the tank, opening also a small hole on the plates of the turret.^[2]

What left the German officers even more impressed was that these results had been achieved with a round that had 500g less of explosive mass compared to their 105 HEAT round.^[2]  

 

A further evolution of the E.P. round was the E.P.S (Effetto Pronto Speciale) that showed instead great results with most of the Italian cannons.

The effects of the E.P.S. round for the 100/17 cannon were similar to its slightly bigger counterpart, the 105mm cannon that we already have in game.

 

To summarize, the rounds that the 100/17 cannon was able to fire were:

-A 13,756Kg HE round, 2,218Kg of explosive mass, initial muzzle velocity 430m/s

-A 12.5Kg EP round, 1Kg of explosive mass, initial muzzle velocity 430m/s (HESH effect)

-A 12.5Kg EPS round, 1Kg of explosive mass, initial muzzle velocity 430m/s (HEAT effect)

With a rate of fire of 6 round per minute, other sources states that they managed to push the rate of fire to 10 rounds per minute, but this ultimately destroyed the gun.

 

Now for the gun itself.

Two version of this Autocannone were actually made, one using the 100/17 mod 914 and one using the 100/17 mod 916, you can tell them apart by looking at how the two ammo boxes right behind the cabin of the machine (that stored 50 rounds of 100mm each) were placed: if they were on the same level as the cabin you’re looking at a mod 914 version, if they were instead raised you are looking at a mod 916 instead.

Here’s an image to compare:

Spoiler

 

In this post I’ll focus on the mod. 914 cannon, as it was the most produced (and equipped) of the two, but fear not, as the only difference between the two guns was the elevation angle,  from -8° to +48° for the mod.914, from -8° to +70° for the mod.916.

 

The gun could rotate freely 360° on the machine, but wasn’t able to direct fire on the front of it, being forced to fire from a minimum of +5°, here’s a drawing that shows its firing angles:

Spoiler

 

 

STAT CARD (to summarize most of the information above):

Spoiler

 

 

ILLUSTRATIONS:

Spoiler

 

 

IN WAR THUNDER:

Moderately fast, great gun and a lot of crew. The only downsides of this machine are the tricky firing angles and the lack of any protection for the crew.

 

This could be a really good candidate for Br 3.0 or 3.3, as it is, let me borrow the term, the “derp gun” that is missing in the Italian tech tree, able to quickly deal with even the most armored targets with ease, still balancing itself with a quite lengthy reload (10s).

 

What I hope is that this machine could come with its EP shell, as it was its main round during the war.

 

 

NOTES:

[1] Filippo Cappellano, Nicola Pignato “andare contro i carri armati” page 128

[2] Filippo Cappellano, Nicola Pignato “andare contro i carri armati” page 150

 

SOURCES:

Enrico Finazzer, Ralph Riccio “Italian artillery of WWII”

Ralph Riccio, Nicola Pignato “Italian truck mounted artillery in action”

Filippo Cappellano, Nicola Pignato “andare contro i carri armati”

Italian and French explosive orinance: https://bulletpicker.com/ordnance-pamphlets.html -> Italian and French explosive ordinance

Nicola Pignato, Filippo Cappellano “Gli autoveicoli tattici e logistici del Regio Esercito” Tomo 2

https://www.o5m6.de/wehrmacht/re_na_autocannone.php#100/17

https://issuu.com/rivista.militare1/docs/studi_su_rassegna_esercito-testo

Archivio Luce

Edited February 6, 2020 by Taffu92

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Taffu92 557]

37 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

Open for discussion. 

 

Thank you very much

Hope that this little gun truck can get some love

 

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

+1 this thing should be added as soon as possible, also unlike Autocannone 90/53 it doesn't need "deploy mode" mechanics, suggested by @BlueBeta , so it's easier to introduce. 

I would like to see both versions in the folder.

Vehicle itself is very interesting, especially because of its EP shell.

Edited February 4, 2020 by _Condottiero_

[Major_K0enig 38]

yes, add the flying artillery batteries!   +1

 

 

On 05/02/2020 at 07:14, _Condottiero_ said:

+1 this thing should be added as soon as possible, also unlike Autocannone 90/53 it doesn't need "deploy mode" mechanics, suggested by @BlueBeta , so it's easier to introduce. 

I would like to see both versions in the folder.

Vehicle itself is very interesting, especially because of its EP shell.

the Autocannone 90/53, should work like the bradly's ATGM currently does. they historically had a semi-deployed mode which would be the ingame mode. which they theoretically could fire in emergances (but it would damage the vehicle). when the vehicle stops it then deploys the legs and doesn't damage the vehicle (which might not even be a thing as firing on the move with the M2 doesn't damage the launcher like it would IRL)

[Milocat 4,849]

This would be a fun gun truck to see.  +1.

[Rieskaruisku 506]

Slapping a big fat HEAT-rounds from a gun truck right into the face of a cocky M4 driver? +1, sounds like a blast to me.

[Taffu92 557]

Slight chages to the maximum speed of the Autocannone 100/17 after reading Filippo Cappellano's " "Batterie Volanti" autocannoni e artiglierie portate italiane".

 

From an extract from " Foglio n.02/7180 12 aprile 1942, Prove di marcia e di tiro delle artiglierie del raggruppamento celere A.S."

Spoiler

 

That translates in:

 

"Tests consisted in six days of march on different surfaces ( paved road, dirt, full off-road), medium lenght 170Km and each one followed by shooting practice. Total lenght traveled 1019Km, total shots fired 1.782.

Maximum speed reached on paved road was 40Km/h, 30Km/h on dirt; on full off-road the maximum speed varied from 15 to 30Km/h.

Both vehicles easily overcame the terrain roughnesses ( on soft sand the TL37 performed a bit better than the Lancia 3Ro)".

 

This means that the Autocannone 100/17 can be quite fast on all terrains, with a maximum speed between 40Km/h and 30Km/h  (15Km/h on extreme conditions), making it even more annoying (and deadly) if left unchecked.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Taffu92

[ironcell26 252]

+1

[Capitan_Rastrero@psn 12]

I want this vehicle in the main tree, however, I think the BRs you suggest are way to high. A more appropriate BR of 1.7 would give this vehicle a better chance in-game. Given that it has zero crew protection, half the speed of other trucks in the game, 40kph (even slower tan the ZiS-12 [94-KM] which clocks in at 50kph), and a relatively small caliber when compared to other "derp guns". Even after you consider the effects of EP and EPS it is still woefully under equipped to deal with a potential 4.0 to 4.7 up-tier. 

 

This is why I think it should be a low tier vehicle in the Italian tech tree with a BR of 1.7 maximum. 

 

As an aside it could also carry a defensive forward-facing MG which should definitely be in the game if this truck is added!

Edited March 25, 2020 by *Capitan_Rastrero
Grammar

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

The enemies of Italy must be derped

[_Pixy 196]

+1

[Jarms 1,556]

On 25/03/2020 at 07:44, *Capitan_Rastrero said:

I want this vehicle in the main tree, however, I think the BRs you suggest are way to high. A more appropriate BR of 1.7 would give this vehicle a better chance in-game. Given that it has zero crew protection, half the speed of other trucks in the game, 40kph (even slower tan the ZiS-12 [94-KM] which clocks in at 50kph), and a relatively small caliber when compared to other "derp guns". Even after you consider the effects of EP and EPS it is still woefully under equipped to deal with a potential 4.0 to 4.7 up-tier. 

 

This is why I think it should be a low tier vehicle in the Italian tech tree with a BR of 1.7 maximum. 

 

As an aside it could also carry a defensive forward-facing MG which should definitely be in the game if this truck is added!

I was thinking this as well. The suggested 3.0 seems way to high. I was thinking 2.0 as a minimum. If not lower.

[Taffu92 557]

Thank you everyone for your opinions

 

To answer the doubt about the Brs that I've chosen for this vehicle I'll explain what I thought.

 

At low brs most of the tanks are equipped with low caliber guns, mostly armed with solid shots.

This machine, having no armor, will only just be hitted by those guns, only damaging some modules or killing one or two crew members each shot (and this machine have a lot of them).

Even with APHE the fuse won't be armed, simply passing throught it from side to side.

 

Now you'll think, "you can simply use the machineguns to take it out" or "simply fire HE and It'll blow up" and you'll be right, but, at low tier, most players are new, they mostly load only the best penning round (even a full load) and they are still learning the mechanics of this game.

 

Yes, you'll face sometimes the usual level 60+ player, clubbing the new ones, that will take you out easily with the machinegun, but most of the other ones will just shoot at your general direction, probably missing or hitting some non lethal module.

Even those that will play this vehicle will mostly do the same mistakes, but the sheer power of this gun will still cause damage to enemy tanks by just the splash of its rounds, like what you can see with machines like the Sturmpanzer or the Ho-Ro.

 

The major difference is that, while with those machines you have a 20-26s reload to balance them, with this one you'll have a 10s reload stock, with a level 0 crew, that can be pushed to only 6s with an aced one (as gun destruction due to overheat is not present in the game), meaning that high level players will find in this machine the perfect tool to stomp everything at low tier.

 

It's suggested Br can be lowered to 2.7 if needed, but not lower than that, as I don't want it to become the perfect tool to ruin a new player experience.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

maybe it'll be useful

https://modellling.com/notiziarioGMT/GMT_1997_3/mobile/index.html#p=2

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

 

[EvenManatee887@live 129]

+1 but at 2.3, maybe 2.7 max, I am more just enamored by the HESH effect of the EP shells. 

[ConroeDoctrine 133]

+1 at either 2.3 or 2.7, Italy needs more derp, gib

[John4Plays 70]

We need this truck, we need a beep beep that goes boom boom.

+1 from me!

[RytisLTU1 2,585]

+1

[hienapunk 1,064]

The Italians operated a lot of these technical trucks and the should be represented.

[LukTroy 124]

+1 for a powerful gun mounted on a beautiful truck.

[TerraStalker 158]

+1 would be in Light tank line

[Nafuu 21]

+1 more italian derp vehicles plsss

[CaID 8,992]

this vehicles is going to be added in the next update

 

 

@Taffu92 if you have any reliable infos about his rounds, time to prepare a bug repport. it do not have the HEAT rounds and have 400 m/sec rounds only