F-104S

[spacesoldier117 876]

3 hours ago, BrassWolf said:

I'd love to see, what Starfighter can do against R60 or Magics

Die to them as the bombers do when they are against the AIM-9B.

 

4 hours ago, arpitmkn said:

Once found this that backup the fact that also a small part of F-014S could use the AIM-9L and not only the ASA

 

ITALIANO

“Questa particolare sensibilità della testata cercante del “Lima” necessitava tuttavia di un sistema di raffreddamento costante per mezzo di un gas inerte (azoto o argon) il cui serbatoio doveva essere integrato nella slitta di lancio che, a questo punto, non poteva più essere la RED DOG in uso per il “Bravo”. Furono quindi acquistate nuove slitte di lancio denominate LAU-7, dotate di un apposito serbatoio interno per il gas di raffreddamento della testata cercante del missile.

Le slitte LAU-7 non erano compatibili con le estremità alari dell’F-104 e nemmeno i piloni delle BL104; xxxx quindi necessario realizzare appositi raccordi, quelli per le estremità alari avevano anche l’effetto di incrementare l’apertura alare di una trentina di centimetri, che diventavano quasi 60 una volta applicata la slitta LAU-7. Alcuni di questi sistemi d’arma furono integrati nel 1987/88 per essere montati sulle BL104 di un numero limitato di F-104S destinati alla missione “Trinacria”, mentre il resto della flotta dovette attendere l'avvio della conversione in F-104S ASA per ottenere quello che sarebbe divenuto l'armamento aria-aria piu efficace mai portato da un F-104."

 

ENGLISH

“This particular sensitivity of the "Lima" seeker head, required a constant cooling system by means of an inert gas (nitrogen or argon) whose tank had to be integrated into the launching slide which could no longer be the RED DOG in use for the "Bravo". New launch slides called LAU-7 were purchased, equipped with a special internal tank for the cooling gas of the missile-seeking head.

The LAU-7 sleds were not compatible with the wingtips of the F-104 and even the pylons BL104; it was therefore necessary to create special fittings, those for the wingtips also had the effect of increasing the wingspan by about thirty centimeters, which became almost 60 once the LAU-7 slide was applied. Some of these weapon systems were integrated in 1987/88 to be mounted on the BL104 of a limited number of F-104S intended for the "Trinacria" mission, the rest of the fleet needed to wait for the start of the convention to F-104S ASA to recieve what would be the most effective air-to-air weaponry ever carried by a F-104.”

 

YESTERDAY I did a bug report, but I gave the sensation it won’t be passed 

If this is true, we could be having a somewhat usable aircraft in our hands.

[Nicolaser 2,024]

Then mig 21 will get their R 60 M and will shred again the top tier matchmaking...

 

 

What about wait and see to realize how it will the plane be without aim 9L and then add them if needed

[TheS1up 1,452]

3 hours ago, Nicolaser said:

Then mig 21 will get their R 60 M and will shred again the top tier matchmaking...

 

 

What about wait and see to realize how it will the plane be without aim 9L and then add them if needed

Like the Draken? No thanks. The J35 Draken is MANOUVRABLE, the F104S isn't, so giving it some capable missiles is necessary.

[ToponePazzo@psn 2]

Since the announcement of the 104S and the photos of the ingame aircraft, I started to investigate.
As Sylvious pointed out, SIX aim9 are quite strange.
IRL in air-to-air role, the plane took off with a mix of aim9 and aim7 (and fuel tanks...).
Even if the aircraft has 9 carriage points, does not mean that it can carry 9 bombs or 9 missiles at the same time.
As an example, you can not carry an extra fuel tank in every sub-pylon, simply because there is no fuel line in every pylon.
Actually, going back to the 104, I was not able to find a single picture or written reference -in my rather scarce library- about these weapon setup consisting only of aim9s.
I would like to have some clarification from gaijin, about this.

As for the introduction of the G model and the ASA. Do they really can add anything to the actual italian TT? (especially the ASA, it would bring the Aspide in a game where there are no radar guided missiles...)
I think that the tree actually lacks many other older aircrafts that could fit better, also speaking about gameplay.

[arpitmkn 2,743]

On 20/05/2020 at 17:51, spacesoldier117 said:

Die to them as the bombers do when they are against the AIM-9B.

 

If this is true, we could be having a somewhat usable aircraft in our hands.

I contacted directly the author of the article and he said:

 

ITALIANO

“Gli AIM-9L sono stati installati in tutta fretta sugli F-104S in occasione della famosa crisi con Gheddafi (missili su Lampedusa) dell'aprile 1986. I primi furono quelli del 18° e 12° Gruppo. I Lima erano già nei magazzini AM perché facevano parte del programma ASA, che sarebbe entrato in servizio a partire dal febbraio 1987.  In totale è possibile che siano stati così modificati una quarantina di velivoli in attesa del programam ASA che li adatattò tutti al nuovo missile.
Trattandosi di modifica extemporanea e di urgenza dubito che sia stata riportarta nei manuali ma la settimana prossima proverò a vedere se ve ne è menzione, nel caso potrò girarle un .pdf.
Le foto sono estremamente rare e abbiamo faticato non poco a reperire quella pubblicata sulla rivista.
In conclusione possiamo affermare che le armi tipiche dell'F-104S erano l'AIM-7F e l'AIM-9B, tuttavia per poco più di un anno, anche alcuni F-104S furono adattati a portare l'AIM-9L.”

ENGLISH

”The AIM-9L were installed in a hurry on the F-104S during the famous crisis with Gaddafi (missiles on Lampedusa) in April 1986. The first ones that recieved it were those of the 18th and 12th Group. The Lima were already in the Italian Airforce warehouses because they were part of the ASA program, which would have entered service since February 1987. In total it is possible that about forty F-104S have been modified while waiting for the ASA program which adapted them all to the new missile. Being an extemporaneous and urgent modification, I doubt that it has been reported in the manuals but next week I will try to see if there is mention of it, in case I can turn it over to a .pdf file. The photos are extremely rare and we have struggled a lot to find the one published in the magazine. In conclusion we can say that the typical weapons of the F-104S were the AIM-7F and the AIM-9B, however for just over a year, some F-104S were also adapted to carry the AIM-9L .”

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

I am experiencing the stock grind ... this is just awful, 20000 RP to first bombs or rockets. 

I've just noticed nice bug, I researched first bombs modification(my first modification!!!), but instead of bombs loadout I've got bombs + aim-9b. XD

Edited May 30, 2020 by _Condottiero_

[PlumleyBT 2,979]

Thats weird, still the AIM-9B should be a tier 2 modification at max.

[Aerobane 4,140]

7 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

I am experiencing the stock grind ... this is just awful, 20000 RP to first bombs or rockets. 

I've just noticed nice bug, I researched first bombs modification(my first modification!!!), but instead of bombs loadout I've got bombs + aim-9b. XD

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't let them fix this lmao I don't want to suffer any more than I have to when I unlock/can afford this thing

[Lahgtah 941]

9 hours ago, Aerobane said:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh don't let them fix this lmao I don't want to suffer any more than I have to when I unlock/can afford this thing

 

Not that the aim-9B's really do anything since they break lock so easily. They actually seem like they work against the plane, because forcing an opponent to turn means you'll have to turn as well, and the 104...well...it just doesn't turn. At all.

 

 

[Iron_physik 3,485]

On 20/05/2020 at 13:17, arpitmkn said:

ENGLISH

“This particular sensitivity of the "Lima" seeker head, required a constant cooling system by means of an inert gas (nitrogen or argon) whose tank had to be integrated into the launching slide which could no longer be the RED DOG in use for the "Bravo". New launch slides called LAU-7 were purchased, equipped with a special internal tank for the cooling gas of the missile-seeking head.

The LAU-7 sleds were not compatible with the wingtips of the F-104 and even the pylons BL104; it was therefore necessary to create special fittings, those for the wingtips also had the effect of increasing the wingspan by about thirty centimeters, which became almost 60 once the LAU-7 slide was applied. Some of these weapon systems were integrated in 1987/88 to be mounted on the BL104 of a limited number of F-104S intended for the "Trinacria" mission, the rest of the fleet needed to wait for the start of the convention to F-104S ASA to recieve what would be the most effective air-to-air weaponry ever carried by a F-104.”

 

YESTERDAY I did a bug report, but I gave the sensation it won’t be passed

thats not a bug report, thats a suggestion for a modification

 

the basic unmodified F-104S cant load AIM-9L, you need to modifiy the wings to even mount the LAU-7 launch rail.

so the current missile loadout of the F-104S is indeed correct.

 

 

 

On 20/05/2020 at 17:51, spacesoldier117 said:

If this is true, we could be having a somewhat usable aircraft in our hands

"somewhat usable"

 

 

I.E

Absolutely brokenly OP thanks to all aspect missiles that make the R550 magic 1 look like a toy

[spacesoldier117 876]

9 hours ago, Iron_physik said:

thats not a bug report, thats a suggestion for a modification

 

the basic unmodified F-104S cant load AIM-9L, you need to modifiy the wings to even mount the LAU-7 launch rail.

so the current missile loadout of the F-104S is indeed correct.

 

 

 

"somewhat usable"

 

 

I.E

Absolutely brokenly OP thanks to all aspect missiles that make the R550 magic 1 look like a toy

Yeah let's totally forget about the fact that this aircraft doesn't have flares and any will to turn.

And I didn't have any idea Lima were already implemented in-game, if they weren't Gaijin could implement them with a huge nerf.

I still think as of now the S is suffering too much and the grind for modifications in relations to the performance of this jet, is too difficult.

To be fair I would mostly use it to CAS after I researched the modifications but as of right now, there is no fun in playing this jet.

[Iron_physik 3,485]

15 minutes ago, spacesoldier117 said:

Yeah let's totally forget about the fact that this aircraft doesn't have flares and any will to turn.

doesnt matter when you got good missiles

or in this case brokenly OP ones.

the taiwanese F-104G does really well, even though its flight performance is nearly identical to the F-104S

 

17 minutes ago, spacesoldier117 said:

And I didn't have any idea Lima were already implemented in-game, if they weren't Gaijin could implement them with a huge nerf.

and what nerf would that be?

remember that weapon performance is tried to be kept realistic. thats why I work so hard on plenty bug reports on these missiles.

 

this is the AIM-9L RN in WT, and even now its still slightly underperforming and will also perform ALOT better when you fre it from a jet so that it doesnt have to accelerate from the standstill.

 

 

its seeker can pick of afterburning jets frontally from 8km out IRL

I still need to bug report that, because currently its just 3km (which is the frontal non afterburning lock range)

 

 

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

31 minutes ago, Iron_physik said:

the taiwanese F-104G does really well, even though its flight performance is nearly identical to the F-104S

 

100% identical. 

[GrandKingGhidora 179]

On 16/05/2020 at 13:41, *gojuancamilo said:

For all you guys who know about airplanes, will F104 be the fastest plane in the game both at deck and at altitude?

 

On 17/05/2020 at 10:41, Fireraid233 said:

It is the fastest it can reach M 1.18 like nothing at sea level only other plane able to do that is the Drakken but it rips at those speeds. So F104S is the fastest plane right now. How will F104S differ from the other F104s that are coming?

 

On 18/05/2020 at 09:25, lizardmech said:

F-104 holds the world sea level speed record for a jet. F-111 or tornado might be faster but not officially tested.

 

just to muddy the waters I have often heard it said "nothing was faster on the deck than a Thud" (F-105)

[BadOpinionHaver 2,092]

I remember awhile back someone said they might report the F-104S missing CCIP, did that go anywhere?

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

7 hours ago, watch_your_fire said:

I remember awhile back someone said they might report the F-104S missing CCIP, did that go anywhere?

 

I did report the missing lead indicator and CCIP on may 26. They're still pending approval. 

[snepcheck@live 343]

On 10/06/2020 at 03:07, Dr_Pavel said:

 

I did report the missing lead indicator and CCIP on may 26. They're still pending approval. 

i'd bet the g56 repair cost they either haven't looked or do not care 

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

9 hours ago, snepcheck@live said:

i'd bet the g56 repair cost they either haven't looked or do not care 

 

Not a bug))))))))))) everything according to statistics)))))))

[BadOpinionHaver 2,092]

On 10/06/2020 at 02:07, Dr_Pavel said:

 

I did report the missing lead indicator and CCIP on may 26. They're still pending approval. 

If you wouldn't mind posting your sources to this thread maybe someone could make a report on the russian forum, it's much more likely to be fixed that way

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

2 hours ago, watch_your_fire said:

If you wouldn't mind posting your sources to this thread maybe someone could make a report on the russian forum, it's much more likely to be fixed that way

 

Sure, here it is

Spoiler

Hi, as per title, the F-104S is missing vital avionics it should have. Namely, it's missing its gun leading indicator and CCIP for rockets.

I've taken a couple screenshots from its manual, it's in Italian so I'll translate it for you:

 

Spoiler

 

• 1: radar (pre-ASA airplanes) - I decided to include this point to avoid any ambiguity, since this manual refers to both the S and ASA variants
• 2: e: M61 automatic cannon; f: ventral hardpoint bomb release system; g: hardpoints BL 22, BL 75 and BL 104 bomb release system; h: rocket launch system
• 3: On FB (Fighter/Bomber, the variant we currently have in game) configurations, the targeting system for the AIM-7E missile, IR collimator and MIRC aren't installed. Instead of the MIRC we have the ground speed compensation system, and instead of the AIM-7E targeting system we have the weaponry computer (ACC) for the cannon and 2.73" FFAR rockets.

 

Furthermore:

 

Spoiler

 

• 4: The weapon targeting and tracking system offers the following features: a: automatic target search&tracking;
• 5: d: display on the radar screen of the correct reference for the automatic launch of the 2.75" FFAR rockets with lead collision (Fighter/Bomber configuration only); e: display on the radar screen and automatic collimator adjusting of reference for gun fire with projected impact curve (Lead Pursuit)(Fighter/Bomber configuration only)
• 6: The weapon targeting and tracking system offers the following features: a: automatic tartget search&tracking;
• 7: d: display on the radar screen of the correct reference for the automatic launch of the 2.75" FFAR rockets with lead collision (Fighter/Bomber configuration only); e: display on the radar screen and automatic collimator adjusting of reference for gun fire with projected impact curve (Lead Pursuit)(Fighter/Bomber configuration only); f: planographic display of the terrain on the radar screen for bombing duties; g: contour-line displayof the terrain on the radar screen for navigation and bombing.

 

 

Please note that points 6 and 7 are meant for the ASA model (hence the Velivoli pre mod.ASA at the beginning of chapter 13-3 and ASA at the beginning of chapter 13-4) and are identical to points 4 and 5. I wrote both of them to further dispel any doubt about what version these features are referred to.

 

Manual is Manuale di manutenzione per il velivolo F-104S - Informazioni Generali (AER.1F-104S/ASA-2-1), see cover below:

 

Spoiler

 

.clog file not needed.

 

[Aerobane 4,140]

On 14/06/2020 at 05:53, Dr_Pavel said:

 

Not a bug))))))))))) everything according to statistics)))))))

[snepcheck@live 343]

On 15/06/2020 at 15:42, Dr_Pavel said:

 

Sure, here it is

  Reveal hidden contents

Hi, as per title, the F-104S is missing vital avionics it should have. Namely, it's missing its gun leading indicator and CCIP for rockets.

I've taken a couple screenshots from its manual, it's in Italian so I'll translate it for you:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• 1: radar (pre-ASA airplanes) - I decided to include this point to avoid any ambiguity, since this manual refers to both the S and ASA variants
• 2: e: M61 automatic cannon; f: ventral hardpoint bomb release system; g: hardpoints BL 22, BL 75 and BL 104 bomb release system; h: rocket launch system
• 3: On FB (Fighter/Bomber, the variant we currently have in game) configurations, the targeting system for the AIM-7E missile, IR collimator and MIRC aren't installed. Instead of the MIRC we have the ground speed compensation system, and instead of the AIM-7E targeting system we have the weaponry computer (ACC) for the cannon and 2.73" FFAR rockets.

 

Furthermore:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• 4: The weapon targeting and tracking system offers the following features: a: automatic target search&tracking;
• 5: d: display on the radar screen of the correct reference for the automatic launch of the 2.75" FFAR rockets with lead collision (Fighter/Bomber configuration only); e: display on the radar screen and automatic collimator adjusting of reference for gun fire with projected impact curve (Lead Pursuit)(Fighter/Bomber configuration only)
• 6: The weapon targeting and tracking system offers the following features: a: automatic tartget search&tracking;
• 7: d: display on the radar screen of the correct reference for the automatic launch of the 2.75" FFAR rockets with lead collision (Fighter/Bomber configuration only); e: display on the radar screen and automatic collimator adjusting of reference for gun fire with projected impact curve (Lead Pursuit)(Fighter/Bomber configuration only); f: planographic display of the terrain on the radar screen for bombing duties; g: contour-line displayof the terrain on the radar screen for navigation and bombing.

 

 

Please note that points 6 and 7 are meant for the ASA model (hence the Velivoli pre mod.ASA at the beginning of chapter 13-3 and ASA at the beginning of chapter 13-4) and are identical to points 4 and 5. I wrote both of them to further dispel any doubt about what version these features are referred to.

 

Manual is Manuale di manutenzione per il velivolo F-104S - Informazioni Generali (AER.1F-104S/ASA-2-1), see cover below:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

.clog file not needed.

 

any updates on this?

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

7 hours ago, snepcheck@live said:

any updates on this?

 

нет))

[BadOpinionHaver 2,092]

18 hours ago, Dr_Pavel said:

 

нет))

Considering French players spent months trying to give the Etenard it's ballistic computer to no avail, I'm not super confident the F-104S will be fixed anytime soon. Best we can do is hype up that bug report when it eventually gets opened. I really wish I could remember that one russian speaker who used to post here, bug reports really do mean a hell of a lot more on the russian forum.

 

On the bright side of things, I'm starting to learn how to use the F-104S in air RB. It's all about how fast you are when you send a missile out, you can effectively double the pull of the aim-9B if you're twice as fast as your opponent, suddenly a 10G missile feels a lot closer to 15G. The 20mm is also just a dream to use, if you're good at predicting deflection shots you can just hold down the trigger for some lovely BRRRRT kills.

Edited June 19, 2020 by watch_your_fire

[Rapitor 10,702]

The ballistic computer is part of the

-104S

-104S/ASA

-104S/ASA-M? 

 

104S doesn't have it by default iirc, but that is the one we have in game