beaufighters New payload configuration, Beaufighters

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

 

 

The different variants of Beaufighter lack some payloads that they historically equipped. So here is my suggestion for them added respectively

 

The Beaufighter MK VIc

(Currently only owning a Mark XII torpedo)

 

• Ability to equip the AP Mk.1 and the RP-3 rockets

 

MK 1 AP rockets in a Coastal command Beaufighter

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205452667 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/UK1905/

 

RP-3 rockets in a Coastal command Beaufighter

Oblique aerial photograph taken from the observer's position on a Bristol Beaufighter during an attack on an enemy convoy off Scheveningen, Holland, by 36 aircraft of the North Coates Strike Wing. Beaufighters can be seen attacking the convoy's escort vessels with rocket projectiles and cannon fire. This attack was the first occasion on which 60-lb solid-shot RPs were used against shipping.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205023515

 

 

Some historical context: Battlefield Bombers: Deep Sea Attack By Martin Bowman

 

 

a Decent preview of the book here: 

Spoiler

https://books.google.com.pa/books?id=g2dtBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=beaufighter+IVc&source=bl&ots=qMTGKJWE_X&sig=ACfU3U3YSCIyM0GX7Xrr5It8jSy7XAy1sA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzvM6cuOzoAhVpU98KHYrsDukQ6AEwDXoECAwQJw#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 +EDIT

• Ability to equip Mark XV torpedoes

 

Mark VX torpedoes in a Coastal command Beaufighter Mk. VIc

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205218976

Photo backgrounds

Spoiler

A No 144 Squadron Beaufighter Mk VI being fitted with an 18in Mk XV torpedo using a special telescopic cradle designed for the job, Tain, 25 April 1943. The torpedo is fitted with a Mk IV gyro-stabilised MAT (Monoplane Air Tail), IWM

 

In Operation Orator, during September 1942, 32 Hampdens of 144 Squadron and 455 Squadron RAAF were sent to Murmansk in Northern Russia in order to support the Arctic convoy PQ 18, and to attack any German warships that might sortie from bases in Norway against the convoy. The squadron lost 5 Hampdens on the flight to Russia, with a further four of 455 Squadron's also lost. The German surface warships did not attack PQ 18, and the squadron's personnel returned to Britain aboard a cruiser in October, leaving its aircraft behind to be handed over to the Soviets. 

In January 1943 the Squadron converted to the more capable Bristol Beaufighter , staying in the torpedo bomber role. After working up, it transferred to Algeria in June 1943, flying anti-shipping strikes over the Mediterranean until it returned to the United Kingdom in August. It continued anti-shipping operations over the North Sea from RAF Wick in Scotland, moving to RAF Davidstow Moor in Cornwall in May 1944 in preparation for Operation Overlord, Wikipedia

 

 

The Beaufighter MK X

(Currently only owning a Mark XII torpedo and 8 RP-3 rockets)

 

• Ability to equip the AP Mk.1 and MK 2

 

Mk.1 in Beaufighter Mk.X

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210555

 

Mk.2 in Beaufighter Mk.X

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210556

 

• Ability to carry 2x new 500-lb MC bombs 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126567

 

500LB MC bombs on Beaufighter Mk. X

(Details about this new 500 lb MC bomb sources below)

 

• Ability to carry 2x 250 GP bombs under the fuselage

 

250 GP LB bombs on Beaufighter Mk. X

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205126841

(U can also see the plane carrying depth charges too, but that's for another thread =) )

 

Here is depicted the use in combat of Beaufighters armed with bombs, actually the last attack with bombs of a beaufighter. To a ship moored at the port of Vathy, on the Island of Samos, Greece, ship which blew up and sank. By the squadron of No. 252 Squadron RAF which used the Mk.X variant during that time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._252_Squadron_RAF)   https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205023416

 

+EDIT

• Ability of equip Mark XV torpedoes

 

Mark VX torpedoes on a Beaufighter Mk.X

https://www.burrowes.org/FamilyTree/E.F.G.Burrowes_LogBook/extras/BeaufighterMustang150dpi.jpg

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205449493

IWM

 

A detailed commercial work/research regarding the use of Mark VX torpedeos on the Mk.X as well as info regarding payloads such as the AP rockets

https://www.aviaeology.com/store/p125/AOD72021.html#/

 

 

The Beaufighter MK 21

(Currently only owning a Mark XII torpedo and 8 RP-3 rockets)

 

Here's some payloads that were available on the MK 21 but are not in the game. Also some that are in the game but not available to the Mk.21 to carry.

 

• Ability to equip the MK 1 & 2 AP rockets (like hornet in game)

 

AP MK2 on a Beaufighter MK.21

(Note the longer AP warhead compared to the smaller MK1 AP)

 

https://31squadronassociation.com.au/archives/beaufighter/

 

• The ability to equip 8x HVAR missiles (I am sure you guys could dig a bit more of this one but it looks feasible)

 

https://www.armedconflicts.com/DAP-Beaufighter-Mk-21-t111613

 

 

• Ability to carry bomb configurations in the MK. 21 , x2 250 MC/500 MC LB. (which would be perfect for skip bombing)

 

250 LB bombs below a Beau Mk.21

 

U can even see what it looks like a bomb flying away in this picture of Beaufighters 21 on Anti-shipping duties

 

Spoiler

 

• New 2,000lb bomb for the Beaufighter MK.21

 

Here is the description manual of the DAP beaufighter in which details the capacity of using this bomb.

https://31squadronassociation.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Australian-Beaufighter-descriptive-Manual.pdf

 

Possibly this H.E  A.P 2000 lb bomb

https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/AP 1661B Vol 1, Bombs.pdf pag. 104

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Depicted here as an M.C, however there was none MC 2000 lb bomb. Just A.P and H.C

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210509 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205454953

 

This one is an HC. 2000lb Mk.I

 

 

The data regarding the 500 LB MC bomb here: https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM 9-1985-1, British Explosive Ordnance.pdf 

including all the Explosive filling data,weights and more; vital for WarThunder.

 

 

This is all done in the intention to increase the Beaufighters capacities against ground targets and step it up in the naval warfare as is also rapidly evolving in the War thunder. Sometimes rockets are needed, sometimes small or BIG bombs, sometimes torpedoes. That's why i'm suggesting these historical loadouts for the Beaufighters used by them during WW2. 

 

EDIT 28-4-2021

With the recently added IXWA strike update, All Beaufighters now received the Strike Aircraft designation. It only seems logical to add these improved historical payloads they carried for various strike purposes.

 

Any additions by you is much appreciated.

Do not forget to participate on the poll, your vote is needed to realize this suggestion.

 

More sources:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTBR_WWII.php

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Research/RAF-Historical-Society-Journals/Journal_45_Seminar_conventional_weapons.pdf pag.129

https://www.scribd.com/document/142020190/TM-9-1985-1-1952-British-Explosive-Ordnance

http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/britishexplosiveordnance1946.pdf British bombs, rockets and more more data.

https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM 9-1985-1, British Explosive Ordnance.pdf 

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/BOMBS.pdf US bombs data

https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/USNBD - US Rockets and Fuzes.pdf 

https://maritime.org/doc/#torp

https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/AP 2802 Vol 1, Aircraft Rocket Installations, Sighting, and Ammunition.pdf  Details about the Rocket installation on the Mk VIc, pag 51

Edited April 28, 2021 by J26Lennox26@psn
Note added

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Open for discussion 

[Milocat 4,855]

+1, I'm definitely up for some more loadouts for the Beaufighters!

[FAA825_Kent 81]

Definitely +1, but I doubt that it will come to realization. We were asking for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time for it without any reply.

[Kernow1346 1,848]

A yes from me, as this is very similar to a Suggestion I made recently (although I was told to move it to Bugs, where the report has languished since end of March, still not moderated nor open for discussion).

 

My points and comments would be:

 

I’m not sure the Mk.VI should get rockets, although you seem to have found evidence it did carry them.  While they did field-mod Mk.Ic and Mk.VIs of the Desert Air Force to carry various bomb loads, the Mk.VI was essentially free of external ordinance (save possibility of torpedo) for the majority of its service.  Give it rockets and it becomes the same as the Mk.X.

 

Mk.X, absolutely yes.  The AP rocket was the most effective anti-shipping rocket.  Initially the 60-lb warhead was tried, but the much better ballistics and range of the streamlined AP rocket meant it soon became the one used for sinking ships.  The Mk.X should also be able to carry the improved Mk.XV torpedo.

 

Mk.21, glad you found some evidence there. I wanted to include it, as I was sure the situation there was similar and, should the Suggestion get anywhere, it makes sense all Beaufighters get updated together, but I could find no admissible evidence.

 

Despite being the most effective anti-shipping weapon IRL, I’ve found the AP rockets do nothing to Destroyers in game. They might be able to kill merchant ships, but I’ve not been able to check that yet.  Cargo ships, flakships and other escorts were the targets IRL.  However, lack of accuracy in the DM (which may one day be corrected) should not be reason to block the Suggestion.  Anyone wondering how a solid rocket could damage a ship needs to know: a rocket which punches through the hull above the waterline is likely to pass right through the ship and exit below the waterline, and holes in ships are bad; fires can be started by the rocket motor as it passes through the ship or if it lodges within; an AP rocket could travel a fair distance through the water to strike and puncture the hull beneath the waterline, if it slightly undershot. Even cannon fire sank a lot of escort ships and smaller merchants, generally by starting fires which became uncontrollable.

 

The anti-shipping Mosquito squadrons also used the AP rockets - in fact, I struggled to find any photos of Mossies carrying the 60-lb version we have in game.

 

For interest here’s my Beaufighter loadout ‘Bug’ report.  Although this Suggestion covers most of it, the addition of Mk.XV torpedoes to the Beaufighter Mk.X is still outstanding:

 

Finally, also for interest, the Mosquito AP rocket ‘Bug’ report:

 

 

Perhaps a mod could comment on the best way forward for my suggestions, as they are similar to, and complement, the present Suggestion. It would seem more efficient to implement all together - Beaufighter X in particular is deserving of several new loadouts and fitting those into its research tree would best be planned in one go with the whole picture in view.

 

[Kernow1346 1,848]

Just heard my Beaufighter Mk.X bug/suggestion (AP rockets & Mk.XV torp) has been passed to devs and added to info on this “known issue”, so fingers crossed this ought to be considered too.

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

On 03/05/2020 at 05:29, Kernow1346 said:

Just heard my Beaufighter Mk.X bug/suggestion (AP rockets & Mk.XV torp) has been passed to devs and added to info on this “known issue”, so fingers crossed this ought to be considered too.

 

Hopefully! Suggestion Mods, do your magic please.

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

On 29/04/2020 at 05:13, Kernow1346 said:

I’ve found the AP rockets do nothing to Destroyers in game. They might be able to kill merchant ships, but I’ve not been able to check that yet.  Cargo ships, flakships and other escorts were the targets IRL.

 

What happens is that AP was used to cause sinking of the ship aimed below the waterline not to kill the crew members or a more devastating blow like the RP-3 Rockets, so in game they best for cargo ships as they will cause it to sink as it cannot repair. We just need the possibility to use them in a X situation.

 

But the AP rockets against Destroyers in game wont work much since they can repair all the penetration damage, if there's any. However as i stated in the suggestion we need the possibility of choosing amongst such variety of ordnance 

Edited May 18, 2020 by *J26Lennox26

[Head3masher 2,272]

Absolutely support these suggestions. The Beaufighter (and mosquito) need overhauling).

[Shrike142 1,683]

 

I think it is more important to make the TF Mk X 'Torbeau' into an actual Torbeau and not just a renamed Mk VIc.

Spoiler

An early TF Mk X ~1942

 

Final production TF Mk X ~1943-44

Spoiler

 

 

 

On top of the suggested rocket payloads, proper (historical) torpedoes would be nice. Currently the majority of our torpedo carriers use a version of the 18" Mk XII that was mostly phased out before the war even started.

Missing models are; 

18" Mk XII* (1939) - improved drop height/speed by using a MAT (monoplane air tail), improves entry angle allowing for greater drop speed and altitude

Spoiler

18" Mk XII** - increased travel distance (to 1.8km), drop speed from ~150kn to ~250-270kn through reinforcing the hull and air tanks (which would make it usable ingame). This one is basically a baby Mk XV

18" Mk XV (1943) - carried by the TF Mk X 'torbeau'

 

On 29/04/2020 at 11:13, Kernow1346 said:

 

 

I’m not sure the Mk.VI should get rockets, although you seem to have found evidence it did carry them.  While they did field-mod Mk.Ic and Mk.VIs of the Desert Air Force to carry various bomb loads, the Mk.VI was essentially free of external ordinance (save possibility of torpedo) for the majority of its service.  Give it rockets and it becomes the same as the Mk.X.

 

 

For the Mk VI yes, but we are talking about Coastal Command's Mk VIc, a lot of which were modified for anti-ship operations.

 

9 hours ago, Head3masher said:

Absolutely support these suggestions. The Beaufighter (and mosquito) need overhauling).

Most British aircraft need a complete overhaul.....TLC is sorely lacking in this game

 

 

 

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

8 hours ago, Shrike142 said:

I think it is more important to make the TF Mk X 'Torbeau' into an actual Torbeau and not just a renamed Mk VIc

 

I am not sure whether the version in game could be considered an early,  but i think we would be talking about 2 different variants. Early Mk.X, Late Mk.X, I am not even sure if that was a thing (Aside from the photo evidences). But keeping in mind the fact that the last British designs on the Beau were Mk.X  and the Mk.21 being Australian variants. Then maybe we talking about another different variant with the radar included. That or they must rework the current MK.X in the game to its late version.

 

I made a suggestion about adding the MK.x  missing radars and along other beaus which did not pass since the configurations of the Mk.x was deemed as a new aircraft. So i had to make it as a bug report. But what it seems to me that rather adding all that to the already existing Mk.X they would just add the another LATE version, Hopefully including also such improved torpedoes and the radar. 

 

Here's what i got told back then, 

 

Quote

With that out of the way, now onto giving you some feedback on what happened to the suggestion you submitted recently. In general, your suggestion seems to concern an issue which is better handled by the bug reporting team. Essentially, you're implying that at least one Beaufighter version (Mk.X) is missing it's radar installation, which is deemed as an inaccuracy in the game and should be reported as a bug in the appropriate bug reporting area.

 

If you would have, say suggested a special modification of the Beaufighter which possessed a radar installation exclusively, then this would have been accepted as a suggestion as it concerns a completely new vehicle that's not in game yet. However, since you're referring to existing modifications, then it needs to be processed as a bug report.

 

and here's the bug report, 

 

 

8 hours ago, Shrike142 said:

n top of the suggested rocket payloads, proper (historical) torpedoes would be nice. Currently the majority of our torpedo carriers use a version of the 18" Mk XII that was mostly phased out before the war even started.

 

Now, i fully support this. I always thought the torpedoes were a bit lacking, and i'm glad with you commenting this. If u or anyone reading this could gather some information regarding the variants of torpedoes used on the beaufighters i would add it to the suggestion. With sources all that that , to validate our suggestions. Whoever also another fellow player concerned with this issue made it, a bug report @Kernow1346

 

So by all means, our end is the same. Improvements for the Beaus

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by *J26Lennox26

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

It'll definitely help to make the Beaufighters more useful.  They're generally outclassed in the air-to-air role by other heavy fighters round their BR other than in raw firepower, but even that's debatable (generally speaking I've found that you'll do more reliable damage with two MG 151s than with four Hispanos against the same target, except at very long ranges).  Giving them bombs and rockets at least lets them be a bit more useful in the ground attack role in the games where you're not able to pick off a distracted enemy down low or coax somebody into a head-on (the only ways to reliably score air-to-air kills in Beaufighters these days).

Edited July 23, 2020 by Z3r0_

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

There, i decided to add the improved torpedoes sources myself. If there is anything else feel free to let me know.

[kingoftigertank 73]

yes the beaufighter definitly lacks useful weapons across all variants. would also be nice too see the prototype variant that carried a 40mm bofor cannon down the centre line would be comparable too the me410u4s

[J26Lennox26@psn 189]

2 hours ago, kingoftigertank said:

yes the beaufighter definitly lacks useful weapons across all variants. would also be nice too see the prototype variant that carried a 40mm bofor cannon down the centre line would be comparable too the me410u4s

 

The R2055 Beaufighter Prototype

It actually carried 2x 40mm , and i think this would be a amazing platform for the S guns in War Thunder. Maybe as event vehicle? Or why not fully searchable in the main tree. Yes the germans got alot-alot.alot of Me's of different purposes, i don't see why we shouldn't have lots of Beaus.

 

Someone should make a suggestion if it has not been done yet.

[kingoftigertank 73]

20 hours ago, *J26Lennox26 said:

 

The R2055 Beaufighter Prototype

It actually carried 2x 40mm , and i think this would be a amazing platform for the S guns in War Thunder. Maybe as event vehicle? Or why not fully searchable in the main tree. Yes the germans got alot-alot.alot of Me's of different purposes, i don't see why we shouldn't have lots of Beaus.

 

Someone should make a suggestion if it has not been done yet.

problem is there's not a lot of info about it too make a full suggestion for it otherwise i would. would be better as a tier3 low premium.

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

On 27/07/2020 at 19:55, *J26Lennox26 said:

 

The R2055 Beaufighter Prototype

It actually carried 2x 40mm , and i think this would be a amazing platform for the S guns in War Thunder. Maybe as event vehicle? Or why not fully searchable in the main tree. Yes the germans got alot-alot.alot of Me's of different purposes, i don't see why we shouldn't have lots of Beaus.

 

Someone should make a suggestion if it has not been done yet.

 

Perfect premium/event/squadron vehicle material right there.

[FAA825_Kent 81]

In my opinion all Beaufighters need upguned, if they will not go lower in BR. For VICs RP3, bombs for Tebeau and both rockets/torpedo combo and HVAR for Mk21. What now expect 12,7 browning and engine settings has now Mk 21 to offer?

[kkang2828 1,446]

Gaijin please add this...

[aceofspades2707 38]

I support this and the radar modifications 100%. I love the Beaus yet they get outclassed by the newer additions of the Bf 110 series carrying a much wider range of armament and also radar! I realize that the Beau was implemented when the game didn’t have radar, but now that the P-61, the F6F-5N and the Bf 110 G-4 have radar, it’s only reasonable that the Beau receive an update (in the form of the Mk. VIF) and a new cockpit as well.
 

Mods, please pass these to the devs asap.

Edited September 19, 2020 by aceofspades2707

[aceofspades2707 38]

On 20/07/2020 at 13:52, J26Lennox26@psn said:

 

I am not sure whether the version in game could be considered an early,  but i think we would be talking about 2 different variants. Early Mk.X, Late Mk.X, I am not even sure if that was a thing (Aside from the photo evidences). But keeping in mind the fact that the last British designs on the Beau were Mk.X  and the Mk.21 being Australian variants. Then maybe we talking about another different variant with the radar included. That or they must rework the current MK.X in the game to its late version.

 

I made a suggestion about adding the MK.x  missing radars and along other beaus which did not pass since the configurations of the Mk.x was deemed as a new aircraft. So i had to make it as a bug report. But what it seems to me that rather adding all that to the already existing Mk.X they would just add the another LATE version, Hopefully including also such improved torpedoes and the radar. 

 

Here's what i got told back then, 

 

 

and here's the bug report, 

 

 

 

Now, i fully support this. I always thought the torpedoes were a bit lacking, and i'm glad with you commenting this. If u or anyone reading this could gather some information regarding the variants of torpedoes used on the beaufighters i would add it to the suggestion. With sources all that that , to validate our suggestions. Whoever also another fellow player concerned with this issue made it, a bug report @Kernow1346

 

So by all means, our end is the same. Improvements for the Beaus

 

 

I totally agree with this, makes the Beau a lot more competitive and enjoyable to fly. As it is now, it’s already one of my favorites as a bomber hunter and mid to low alt support fighter, and having radar just makes it more valid in today’s game meta along with the Hungarian 110 and the Black Widow.

Edited September 19, 2020 by aceofspades2707

[Border_Farce 89]

A very good thread, the Beufighter certainly needs bringing in line with other twin engined aircraft in the game. +1 from me.

[Insanerobert 307]

I always thought that Beaufighters are better suited as ground strikers, yet this role is very limited due to the current lack of 2nd ordinance on most of them.

[doflite 100]

at least its a start getting correct loadouts on the brigand, the beaufighters and firebrand need there's now

[AVROVULCANXH558 349]

+1 from me, the Beaufigher could do with more armaments