M4 Tipo VC

[arpitmkn 2,743]

General Info:

After World War 2 Italy found itself with many versions of the Sherman tank, the S.M.E. tried to categorize every version of the tank that could be found on Italian soil, what we will look at today is the M4 Tipo VC.

This version is a mix of the M4A4 with Chrisler MultiBank engine and the turret housing the 76/55 gun.

This version would be similar to the M4A2 (76) W that can be found in the American Tech, except for a different engine, with performance similar to the M4 Tipo IC, a lengthened hull and a more resistant welded hull.

This version can be seen in different photos used during exercises during the 50’s.

This version has a striking similarity to the English Sherman Firefly, but the difference can be spotted as the M4A4 has a square protuberance on the side of the hull and no mud guard at the front, back and side of the track.

 

Stats:

weight: Circa 32 tons

Circa 400 hp

top speed: almost 40 km/h

 

Armament:

1 76/55 main gun

1 coaxial 7.62 L3A1 machine gun

1 12.7 M2 HB machine gun on top of the turret

 

Why this vehicle should be in War Thunder:

This vehicle should be in game seeing the need of the Italian Tech Tree to fill up the big gap that can be found between rank 3 and 4, the tech tree lacks vehicles at BR 5.0, 5.3 and 5.7, this vehicle would fit the BR 5.0/5.3, I think to avoid to angrying people that doesn't want to play American tanks, this Sherman could be folded with the M4 TipoIC.

This vehicle would be also part of a effort by my part to propose other vehicles to fill out these Brs.

 

Photos:

 

Sources:

Book “Gli Autoveicoli Da Combattimento Dell’Esercito Italiano” Volume 3° (1945/1955)

http://www.esercito.difesa.it/storia/pagine/carro-medio-m-4-sherman.aspx

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman#Esercito_Italiano

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/m4-sherman-medium-tank-variants-list.asp

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M4_Sherman.php

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by arpitmkn

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Open for discussion.

[arpitmkn 2,743]

42 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

Open for discussion.

Thanks a lot! 

[zman901 311]

I don't understand why you'd put this tank at 5.3 when it's pretty much the same as the British Sherman VC Firefly at 4.7

British nomenclature for the Shermans pretty much gives it away.

Sherman V for M4A4 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun and Chrysler A57 multibank engine in a longer rear hull with more widely spaced bogies

Letters after the mark number denoted modifications to the base model: "C" for the (British) QF 17 pounder (76.2 mm) gun

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1 
Although im not too fussed about copy paste, i wouldn't be suprised if others might have an issue with it.

[Milocat 4,849]

Sure, why not have another Italian Sherman?  +1.

[arpitmkn 2,743]

1 hour ago, zman901 said:

I don't understand why you'd put this tank at 5.3 when it's pretty much the same as the British Sherman VC Firefly at 4.7

British nomenclature for the Shermans pretty much gives it away.

Sherman V for M4A4 with 75 mm M3 L/40 gun and Chrysler A57 multibank engine in a longer rear hull with more widely spaced bogies

Letters after the mark number denoted modifications to the base model: "C" for the (British) QF 17 pounder (76.2 mm) gun

Because this one has a 76mm gun, a better chassis protection than the M4 Tipo IC and better Engine over the Tipo IC, this one is much more similar to a M4A2 (76) W that can be found in the US tech tree, that it is at 5.3

also that 5 doesn’t stand for the same in Sherman 5, the five there is in a designation used in the Italian army to categorize the Sherman found on the Italian soil.

as I said this is not a Firefly and this is not a Tipo IC

Edited April 27, 2020 by arpitmkn

[zman901 311]

1 hour ago, arpitmkn said:

Because this one has a 76mm gun

What?

2 hours ago, zman901 said:

Letters after the mark number denoted modifications to the base model: "C" for the (British) QF 17 pounder (76.2 mm) gun

and just to be clear this is the same armament as the Tipo IC and British Firefly

 

On 25/04/2020 at 00:22, arpitmkn said:

This version is a mix of the M4A4 with Chrisler MultiBank engine and the turret housing the 76/55 gun.

You're basically describing the British Firefly here. Also M4A4 = elongated chassis + Chrysler MultiBank by default so it isn't some exotic Italian mix of the two

http://www.theshermantank.com/the-sherman-tank-variant-page-pages-for-each-type-of-sherman-tank/the-sherman-m4a4-medium-tank-proof-americans-can-make-even-crazy-motors-reliable/

 

1 hour ago, arpitmkn said:

Because this one has a 76mm gun, a better chassis protection than the M4 Tipo IC and better Engine over the Tipo IC, this one is much more similar to a M4A2 (76) W that can be found in the US tech tree,

So we already established that the gun is the same as the Firefly, the better engine is the same as the Firefly and you forgot to mention the increased weight of the elongated chassis which kinda negates the better engine, again same as the Firefly.

This leaves the better protection, which while you can say is better than the Tipo IC, is only marginally better than the Firefly in-game since it has the extra plates on the side of the hull and the plate that covers the turret weakspot. Now if you think that is enough to move it 2 BRs above the Firefly, that's your personal opinion but I think this is at most a 5.0 vehicle but preferably 4.7.

 

1 hour ago, arpitmkn said:

also that 5 doesn’t stand for the same in Sherman 5, the five there is in a designation used in the Italian army to categorize the Sherman found on the Italian soil.

it means the same thing, Sherman V = M4A4 + Chrysler MultiBank

Edited April 27, 2020 by zman901

[arpitmkn 2,743]

2 minutes ago, zman901 said:

What?

and just to be clear this is the same armament as the Tipo IC and British Firefly

 

You're basically describing the British Firefly here. Also M4A4 = elongated chassis + Chrysler MultiBank by default so it isn't some exotic Italian mix of the two

http://www.theshermantank.com/the-sherman-tank-variant-page-pages-for-each-type-of-sherman-tank/the-sherman-m4a4-medium-tank-proof-americans-can-make-even-crazy-motors-reliable/

 

So we already established that the gun is the same as the Firefly, the better engine is the same as the Firefly and you forgot to mention the increased weight of the elongated chassis which kinda negates the better engine, again same as the Firefly.

This leaves the better protection, which while you can say is better than the Tipo IC, is only marginally better than the Firefly in-game since it has the extra plates on the side of the hull and the plate that covers the turret weakspot. Now if you think that is enough to move it 2 BRs above the Firefly, that's your personal opinion but I think this is at most a 5.0 vehicle.

 

it means the same thing, Sherman V = M4A4 + Chrysler MultiBank

In my opinion it could be at 5.3 but 5.0 could be good.

for sure seeing the better protection compared the Tipo 1C it should do at least 0.3 higher

[zman901 311]

1 hour ago, arpitmkn said:

this one is much more similar to a M4A2 (76) W that can be found in the US tech tree, that it is at 5.3

If u want a 5.3 vehicle than just suggest the M4A2 (76) W

http://www.ferreamole.it/contributi/censimento/15_m4_76_bel.htm

[mc205v 786]

2 minutes ago, zman901 said:

If u want a 5.3 vehicle than just suggest the M4A2 (76) W

http://www.ferreamole.it/contributi/censimento/15_m4_76_bel.htm

Exact!

[arpitmkn 2,743]

13 minutes ago, zman901 said:

If u want a 5.3 vehicle than just suggest the M4A2 (76) W

http://www.ferreamole.it/contributi/censimento/15_m4_76_bel.htm

 

11 minutes ago, mc205v said:

Exact!

I Wanted a vehicle that wasn’t already in other tech trees, the M4A4 isn’t in the American tech tree and this is a different vehicle from the Firefly (as you can see from picture side to side of the M4 TipoVC and the English firefly)

Edited April 27, 2020 by arpitmkn

[mc205v 786]

12 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

 

I Wanted a vehicle that wasn’t already in other tech trees, the M4A4 isn’t in the American tech tree and this is a different vehicle from the Firefly (as you can see from picture side to side of the M4 TipoVC and the English firefly)

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Sherman_Firefly.php

[arpitmkn 2,743]

13 minutes ago, mc205v said:

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Sherman_Firefly.php

As you can see there is no side protuberanze at the side of the chassis and mud guard all around of the track in game.

the M4 Tipo VC instead has such protuberance on the side, extra protection on the turret and no mudguard all around, as I said if you think it should be at 5.0 instead I’m okay with it.

as you can see also on this picture, English firefly, no protuberance on the side 

Edited April 27, 2020 by arpitmkn

[mc205v 786]

3 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

As you can see there is no side protuberanze at the side of the chassis and mud guard all around of the track in game.

the M4 Tipo VC instead has such protuberance on the side, extra protection on the turret and no mudguard all around 

But all this does not justify a BR higher than 4.7

[arpitmkn 2,743]

Just now, mc205v said:

But all this does not justify a BR higher than 4.7

I had much better protection for the hull and turret than the Tipo IC, a better engine and the same gun. 
the Tipo IC is at 4.7.

the vehicle has the same engine and gun as the firefly but the extra plate on the side of the hull and extra protection on the turret.

the firefly is at 4.7.

in my opinion is 5.3 worthy, but I heard your opinion and I have modified the main post to say it might go at 5.0 too as Zman said

[zman901 311]

12 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

As you can see there is no side protuberanze at the side of the chassis and mud guard all around of the track in game.

the M4 Tipo VC instead has such protuberance on the side, extra protection on the turret and no mudguard all around, as I said if you think it should be at 5.0 instead I’m okay with it.

as you can see also on this picture, English firefly, no protuberance on the side 

No offense bud but it's hard to take you seriously if you cherry pick the picture you want from @mc205v 's link when there are other pictures in the same link that show a Firefly with the additional armor

 

The Firefly we have in-game doesn't have them so we can say it's a "unique" vehicle but it's almost the same

Edited April 27, 2020 by zman901

[arpitmkn 2,743]

14 minutes ago, zman901 said:

No offense bud but it's hard to take you seriously if you cherry pick the picture you want from @mc205v 's link when there are other pictures in the same link that show a Firefly with the additional armor

 

The Firefly we have in-game doesn't have them so we can say it's a "unique" vehicle but it's almost the same

I took that one because it’s the only one where they specifically say “English Firefly” if you see the second has the protuberance but it says “Dutch Firefly”

Edited April 27, 2020 by arpitmkn

[spacesoldier117 876]

Italy really needs some tanks in the middle of the tech tree. +1

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

+1 but probably as a premium or event vehicle. For the regular tree I prefer 76 mm Shermans.

[BlueBeta 7,558]

The tank, as told by other users, it's a british firefly on M4A4 hull.

So to do the model they should take the hull,removing the MG, from the Chinese M4A4 putting on it the firefly turret/cannon.

The only way to rise it from 4.7 to 5.0 (and no more than this) is giving the APDS 76mm shells that were used by the italian army in the '50s (they are the apds used in game in tanks like the Comet)

 

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

I really think this tank is a SLAM DUNK.  It can be cheaply done by Gaijin, and it is currently UNIQUE.

[ALIEN109 1,321]

At first I thought it was the one coming to 1.99 but 1.99 only add a true Firefly

Edited May 16, 2020 by ALIEN109

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

4 hours ago, ALIEN109 said:

At first I thought it was the one coming to 1.99 but 1.99 only add a true Firefly

That's because it WAS a true Firefly. M4A4 = (UK) Sherman Mk V. = (IT) Sherman Tipo V. Some had that one extra armor plate on the side, some didn't. Here's a Canadian Sherman V (with the 75mm turret) that did.

 

[ALIEN109 1,321]

We got this Sherman VC in 1.98.0.40

(note : the decals are already present on the model)

I am confused now

It is not the same as in OP right ?

Edited May 21, 2020 by ALIEN109