tank T-80BVM: Brought back to life

[MCmaddawg 341]

 

T80-BVM

 

The T-80BVM is an upgraded version of the T-80BV main battle tank. It was first publicly revealed in 2017. Currently Russia operates a total of 4 500 T-80 main battle tanks of all variants. Earlier it was planned that all Russian T-80 series tanks will be retired by 2015. However in 2017 Russian MoD signed a contract to refurbish and upgrade a total of 62 T-80BV tanks to the T-80BVM standard in order to keep them in operational service. In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. Upgrade of the T-80BV tanks to the T-80BVM standard continued in 2019 when another 31 tanks were delivered.

The upgraded T-80BVM has slightly improved armor protection. It is fitted with Relikt explosive reactive armor kit. The same armor is used by the latest Russian main battle tanks, such as T-90M and T-90MS.

Spoiler

 

 

The Relikt provides protection against tandem warheads and reduces penetration of APFSDS rounds by over 50%. The tank is fitted with rubber side skirts, with built-in armor plates. Rear parts of the hull and turret are covered by cage armor. The T-80BVM is reportedly fitted with a passive countermeasures system, which improved protection against some types of anti-tank guided missiles.

Spoiler

The T-80BVM retains a 125 mm smoothbore gun. However it uses a newly-built 2A46M-4 gun, which has longer range and is 15-20% more accurate than the 2A46M-1 gun of the T-80BV. Effective range of fire with APFSDS round is 2 000-3 000 m day and 2 000-2 600 m at night. Armor penetration is around 590-630 mm at 2 000 m range. The T-80BVM is compatible with newly developed Svinets-1 and Svinets-2 APFSDS rounds with tungsten and depleted uranium penetrators. The gun can also launch 9M119M Refleks (Western designation AT-11 Sniper-B) anti-tank guided missiles in the same manner as ordinary rounds. These missiles extend the effective range of the 125 mm gun.

Spoiler

The T-80BVM carries 45 rounds and missiles for the main gun. The gun is loaded automatically by the autoloader. If the autoloader fails, the gun can be loaded manually. Secondary armament consists of a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun and roof-mounted 12.7 mm machine gun. Fire control system has also been upgraded.

Spoiler

 

Inside layout and FCS.

 

Spoiler

 

Dubler sight schematic and mounted on the turret.

 

 

Summary: In Warthunder the T80-BVM could either be a sidegrade to the already existing T80U as a new vehicle or as a module for the already existing T80B, the latter would make more sense, as all T80-BVM's are updates of T80BV's and no T80-BVM's are built from scratch. Due to the fact, that the original T80BV turret is weaker in comparison to the T80U, I'd say a nice BR of 10.3 would fit this vehicle (or the updated T80BV) quite nicely.
 

Spoiler

Skip to 6 minute mark for information about T80-BVM.

 

 

 

Sources:

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201912121242-rybPa.html

http://www.russianarms.ru/forum/index.php/topic,14102.msg106543.html#msg106543

https://rostec.ru/news/rostekh-peredal-v-voyska-partiyu-arkticheskikh-tankov-t-80bvm/

https://rg.ru/2020/03/16/ispytaniia-obnovlennogo-t-80bvm-sniali-na-video.html

https://topwar.ru/138277-t-80bvm-staryy-tank-s-novymi-vozmozhnostyami.html

http://btvtinfo.blogspot.com/2017/09/blog-post_9.html

http://bastion-karpenko.ru/t-80bvmm/

 

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[WulfPack 1,693]

14 hours ago, MCmaddawg said:

Fire control system has also been upgraded.

I've never been able to figure out if it just has Sosna-U or if it has a nearly complete 'Kalina' FCS(Barring the independent commander's sight). I wonder if the transmission has also be modified in the same sense that T-90Ms and T-72B3 Obr 16 has.

Edited April 27, 2020 by WulfPack

[MCmaddawg 341]

From what I understood, the commander has his own panoramic sight with night vision. That has been around since the early T72's I believe, they just never had thermals. The gunner has thermal and night vision. The engine has been upgraded. Upgraded however is a very loose term, as the engine is now basically that of the T80U. Logic would dictate that the transmission would also be upgraded to be able to fit the new engine, however, I believe it's not exactly on par with the newer vehicles.

 

Many people in Russia are saying this upgrade is just a waste of money. One of the reasons being is that they're upgrading old T80's, with now obsolete armor, while there are aging T80U's more suitable for upgrades.

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

if it's a module for the T-80B it mean it will be at 10.3/7 since gaijin doesn't want to bring a dynamic BR system , so i would much rather have it has a new tank + the fact that the T-80B already had an upgrade with the addition of kontakt1 , the T-80BV have a different armor than the T-80B too

[Milocat 4,849]

+1 as a new tank.

[eleks12 1,079]

+1 

It should be folded as an independent tank along side the regular T-80B and have a rank of 10.0 to 10.3. Since i believe the standard T-80B should be 9.7

[MCmaddawg 341]

 

Spoiler

Upclose view of Relikt "soft" armor packages attached to the sideskirts of T80BVM. These are different from the hard Relikt plates mounted on the turret and the front of the hull.

The main point of these soft packages is survival of contact with other hard surfaces, where as hard plates could possibly crack upon contact with a hard surface, the soft packages would not. Incase of the soft packages being deformed or damaged to the point where it would no longer offer adequate protection, these are easy to replace in field conditions, as they are strapped to the hull using leather (or other makeshift) straps. Hard Relikt plates must be bolted on and are time consuming to mount.

 

"Soft" and "hard" Relikt packages seem to not differ in terms of protection.

 

If implemented into the game as a module (where you could either pick the hard of soft packages on the sideskirts) these could potentially be replaced (if damaged or shot off) in a capture point by choosing to repair your vehicle.

SOURCE: https://regnum.ru/news/it/2580791.html

Edited May 2, 2020 by MCmaddawg

[WulfPack 1,693]

33 minutes ago, MCmaddawg said:

Soft" and "hard" Relikt packages seem to not differ in terms of protection

AFAIK, they are very different setups and that soft ERA is more akin to an easier to mount 4S24 

 

"Little is known about these "soft" ERA blocks except that 4S24 explosive elements are used and special plastic inserts are contained within. Apparently, the plastic inserts are filled with sand of some sort. This indicates that the ERA is much more complex than a simple collection of explosive elements like most ERA designs of this type."

"Both the ERA blocks on the hull and turret are most likely designed to defeat tandem HEAT warheads. ERA blocks using 4S24 explosive elements with the capability to defeat tandem warheads even on a perpendicular impact have already been demonstrated years ago."

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2017/12/t-72-part-2.html#4s24

Edited May 2, 2020 by WulfPack

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

46 minutes ago, WulfPack said:

AFAIK, they are very different setups and that soft ERA is more akin to an easier to mount 4S24 

 

"Little is known about these "soft" ERA blocks except that 4S24 explosive elements are used and special plastic inserts are contained within. Apparently, the plastic inserts are filled with sand of some sort. This indicates that the ERA is much more complex than a simple collection of explosive elements like most ERA designs of this type."

"Both the ERA blocks on the hull and turret are most likely designed to defeat tandem HEAT warheads. ERA blocks using 4S24 explosive elements with the capability to defeat tandem warheads even on a perpendicular impact have already been demonstrated years ago."

https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2017/12/t-72-part-2.html#4s24

Tankograd got that wrong. According to Nii Stali, 2S24 "light ERA" enhances protection against projectiles up to 30mm and provides protection against HEAT penetrating up to 500mm, there is no mention of them being effective vs tandem warheads.

[WulfPack 1,693]

3 hours ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

According to Nii Stali, 2S24 "light ERA" enhances protection against projectiles up to 30mm

Is that just for 4S24 or for both it and the soft ERA? Is 2S24 the soft ERA? 

TankoGrad's claim comes from Nii Stali

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by WulfPack

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

1 hour ago, WulfPack said:

Is that just for 4S24 or for both it and the soft ERA? Is 2S24 the soft ERA? 

TankoGrad's claim comes from Nii Stali

 

Light ERA uses 2S24 elements. But we can´t be sure that the current light ERA offered by Nii Stali (go check their russian website) is the only ERA to use 2S24. That video is from early 2000s when 2S24 was still in experimental stages. And also pay attention because at the end of the video it shows 3 distinct ERA models, 1 of which is unidentified and currently is not even mentioned in Nii Stali publications: The first ERA is recognizable as Relikt, the second one is the unidentified type, seems to be mounted on a T-55/62 (for that package it claims that it can defeat tandem HEAT and judging from the shape of the tiles my guess is that it features 2S24 but in a different configuration), and the last package shown is clearly the "light ERA" in a prototype form for light vehicles, with a distinct boxy shape. For this one it claims tandem HEAT protection against weapons not exceeding 750mm and AP protection up to 23mm. In the current commercially available form, light ERA is advertised to protect vs (non tandem) HEAT up to 500mm of pen but better KE protection up to 30mm. I don´t know why they "exchanged" CE for KE protection. I'm very interested in the "unidentified/heavy potential 2S24 ERA" that never made it out of experimentation.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Alan_Tovarishch

[WulfPack 1,693]

4 hours ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

Light ERA uses 2S24 elements. But we can´t be sure that the current light ERA offered by Nii Stali (go check their russian website) is the only ERA to use 2S24. That video is from early 2000s when 2S24 was still in experimental stages. And also pay attention because at the end of the video it shows 3 distinct ERA models, 1 of which is unidentified and currently is not even mentioned in Nii Stali publications: The first ERA is recognizable as Relikt, the second one is the unidentified type, seems to be mounted on a T-55/62 (for that package it claims that it can defeat tandem HEAT and judging from the shape of the tiles my guess is that it features 2S24 but in a different configuration), and the last package shown is clearly the "light ERA" in a prototype form for light vehicles, with a distinct boxy shape. For this one it claims tandem HEAT protection against weapons not exceeding 750mm and AP protection up to 23mm. In the current commercially available form, light ERA is advertised to protect vs (non tandem) HEAT up to 500mm of pen but better KE protection up to 30mm. I don´t know why they "exchanged" CE for KE protection. I'm very interested in the "unidentified/heavy potential 2S24 ERA" that never made it out of experimentation.

All I can do is guess but the way I see it is one of the following things:

What is used on IFVs and what is used on tanks use two different setups with tanks using the "heavy" one with 700+ and tandem warhead. Maybe this was a decision made later on because that video does imply IFV use.

Nii Stali site is using outdated information and reflects only the earlier "light" one.

The heavy one didn't pass testing or it was deemed too expensive.

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

3 hours ago, WulfPack said:

Nii Stali site is using outdated information and reflects only the earlier "light" one.

The heavy one didn't pass testing or it was deemed too expensive.

Could be, who knows. But currently this is the way they market their product, perhaps there are secret or classified qualities about this armor package but we can't twist their public statements even more when one is 20 years older than the other. I mean, these are all after all commercial oriented sources. For example, i remember that in the ATK brochure on the M829A4 it was stated that said round had comparable weight, dimensions and velocity to M829A3 but just a couple of weeks ago an Army source was published stating precise data, and clarifying that M829A4 is both a heavier round and is also fired at a higher muzzle velocity. So we always need a source, preferably newer and with better quality of information to debunk another one.

 

I really would like to know more about the "heavy 2S24 ERA" featured for T-54/62, perhaps they were trying to sell that to countries who didn´t need something as strong as Relikt but in the end decided against it so that their own products wouldn´t compete against each other? 

[GoddePro 1,147]

the 5 people who said this should be a modification for T-80BV are out of their damn minds.

that would be a jump of 10.0 to 11.0-11.3 in br.

 

But yeah, I would like to see this in-game, even though it would be more competitive and make more sense to go in the direction of T-84M BM-Oplot since T-80BVM isn't going to be enough by the time it enters the game

[MCmaddawg 341]

The jump in BR wouldn't be that high. The T80BVM would be comparable to the already existing T80U. Keep in mind that they are upgrading old T80BV's, that have worse armor than the T80U and the only extra protection they get are the Relikt plates. Which ever way gaijin decides to do it, I just want to see this tank ingame.

 

The Oplot however is a Ukrainian modernization. So I'm not sure that would make it to the regular tree without upsetting some Ukrainians. They could add it as a premium tank however.

Edited May 3, 2020 by MCmaddawg

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

31 minutes ago, MCmaddawg said:

The Oplot however is a Ukrainian modernization. So I'm not sure that would make it to the regular tree without upsetting some Ukrainians. They could add it as a premium tank however.

they put south african tank in the main UK TT and they already confirmed in one of the last Q&A that putting vehicules from another nation in a main one is a possibility for those minor nation to be in the game , so why not ukrainians tanks in the soviet TT ? it's just a game after all , we don't need to talk about politic

[WulfPack 1,693]

5 hours ago, GoddePro said:

the 5 people who said this should be a modification for T-80BV are out of their damn minds.

that would be a jump of 10.0 to 11.0-11.3 in br.

Sounds like a fun stock grind

[eleks12 1,079]

5 hours ago, GoddePro said:

the 5 people who said this should be a modification for T-80BV are out of their damn minds.

that would be a jump of 10.0 to 11.0-11.3 in br.

 

Even though i agree that the T-80BVM should be a seperate tank and i think it should be folded under the T-80B/BV I don't think it's that much an increase in BR.

 

Since it's upgrades are rather limited. If the T-80UK ever comes to game i think both will preform more or less identical. since the T-80BVM has better ERA but worse base armor and the T-80UK has better hull armor but only Kontakt-5. And Gaijin could choose not to give it the better APFSDS for balance reasons.

 

Compared to other modern Russian tank upgrades like the T-90M/MS the T-80BVM is actully sort of a bad tank comparred to it's real life time period.

 

47 minutes ago, MCmaddawg said:

The Oplot however is a Ukrainian modernization. So I'm not sure that would make it to the regular tree without upsetting some Ukrainians. They could add it as a premium tank however.

 

Personally i would add Post Soviet Ukranian tanks to the USSR tree. But due to the current Geopolitical climate. I would sugguest the devs to put those tanks on hold and only add them in the far end of the development of War Thunder

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

2 minutes ago, eleks12 said:

Personally i would add Post Soviet Ukranian tanks to the USSR tree. But due to the current Geopolitical climate. I would sugguest the devs to put those tanks on hold and only add them in the far end of the development of War Thunder

they don't care about the politics , they add the chinese TT with both china and taiwan in the same TT , it's just a game geopolitic should not be a thing here

[MCmaddawg 341]

Don't get me wrong, I think politics should never influence a video game and I would honestly love to see the Oplot in the soviet tech tree. Having said that, with the way politics influence everything today, you may never know what cry baby will pop around the corner to complain about something. If Gaijin does add the Oplot to the soviet tech tree, I will be a happy tanker.

[GoddePro 1,147]

On 03/05/2020 at 21:44, eleks12 said:

 

Even though i agree that the T-80BVM should be a seperate tank and i think it should be folded under the T-80B/BV I don't think it's that much an increase in BR.

 

Since it's upgrades are rather limited. If the T-80UK ever comes to game i think both will preform more or less identical. since the T-80BVM has better ERA but worse base armor and the T-80UK has better hull armor but only Kontakt-5. And Gaijin could choose not to give it the better APFSDS for balance reasons.

T-80BVM has at least 700mm of protection with Relikt, since Relikt degrades APFSDS rounds by around 40-50% and affects all rounds up to M829A3 (the A4 is apparently designed to defeat Relikt and Duplet) in this fashion, so for better rounds, armour protection will actually increase up to 800mm. To be sure it will be far better protected than T-80U, superior even to the 2A5/6 and M1A2 SEP. 

Don't forget it gets Catherine XP CITV third gen and 2nd gen thermals for the gunner, making its thermal imaging superior to every tank in-game at the moment except for Strv 90120. 

It also has 2A46M-4 main gun, with improved accuracy and performance over current 2A46M-1 in-game and fire Svinets-1 and 2 (which we don't really need to worry about too much, since gaijin witholds ammo all the time). 

It also has the improved engine from T-80U, which means that it might be a little lighter than T-80U, and so therefore have a better hp/ton ratio. 

 

It is too modern for this point in the game. It is literally a 2018 upgrade. If we ever get FCS this will instantly jump to around 11.7 or something insane. As it stands, it could go to 10.7, but even that is a stretch. I would keep it at 11.0 minimum

[ColdMatches 943]

2 hours ago, GoddePro said:

Don't forget it gets Catherine XP CITV third gen

T-80BVM does not have CITV (to my knowledge.)

Edited May 7, 2020 by ColdMatches

[GoddePro 1,147]

12 minutes ago, ColdMatches said:

T-80BVM does not have CITV.

from what I know it does. 

Doesn't it use Sonsa-U commander station?

[ColdMatches 943]

17 minutes ago, GoddePro said:

from what I know it does. 

Doesn't it use Sonsa-U commander station?

Well its more of a speculation, not guaranteed. Also the T-80BVM may or may not have the improved 2E42-4 stabilizer(aka the one with 40deg/sec traverse) or modified transmission.

If it gets all of these things that'd be great, and would definitely deserve a higher BR. If not, its not far off from the T-80U in game besides better armor.

Edited May 7, 2020 by ColdMatches