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Panavia Tornado


Panavia Tornado in Italian Tech Tree  

206 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Italy be given the Panavia Tornado IDS (InterDictor/Strike) in War Thunder?

    • Yes.
      199
    • No.
      7
  2. 2. Should Italy be given the Panavia Tornado ADV (Air Defence Variant) in War Thunder?

    • Yes.
      199
    • No.
      7
  3. 3. Should Italy be given the Panavia Tornado ECR (Electronic Combat/Reconnaissance) in War Thunder?

    • Yes.
      91
    • Yes, but only if Suppression of Enemy Air Defense becomes possible in War Thunder.
      101
    • No.
      14


     Born out of a joint effort in the 1970's the Panavia Tornado is a set of three combat aircraft based upon a common design.  All are twin-engined, variable-swept wing aircraft with a two-person crew an internal gun and provisions for a wide array of exterior stores from avionics pods to air to air missiles.  The aircraft ended up serving (in various forms) with the Royal Air Force, the Royal Saudi Air Force, the German Air Force, and The Italian Air Force.  It saw combat in many wars and interventions in its lifetime and ultimately each nation that used it ended up using it in combat.   Given the Italian participation in development, use of all three major types of the aircraft, and combat usage of the aircraft, it would be a fine addition to the Italian Aviation Tech Tree.

 

Development

On 26 March 1969, four partner nations – United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands (the Netherlands pulled out of the agreement in 1970 citing the complexity of the aircraft as unacceptable), agreed to form a multinational company, Panavia Aircraft GmbH, to develop and manufacture the a "Multi-Role Combat Aircraft" MRCA.  The aircraft would be able to undertake missions in tactical strike, reconnaissance, air defence and maritime.  The goal was to provide an aircraft that could replace multiple aircraft (such as the F-104 and the Blackburn Buccaneer) in the respective nations aerial fleets.  There was, of course a great deal of political wrangling, but ultimately it was agreed that the United Kingdom and West Germany would each have a 42.5% stake of the workload and the remaining 15% would go to Italy.  The front fuselage and tail assembly was given to then BAC (now BAE Systems), the center fuselage to MBB (now part of Airbus), and the wings to Aeritalia (now Leonardo).  In a concurrent effort a separate multinational company, Turbo-Union was established in June of 1970 to design and produce the RB199 engines, with a similar split of 40% to Rolls-Royce, 40% to MTU, and 20% to FIAT.

 

Initially many designs were proposed in the project definition phase (singles seat, single engine, fixed wing, etc.)  However, in May 1970 final designs were proposed known as the Panavia 100 (a single-seat design favored by the Germans) and a twin-seat Panavia 200 (which the British preferred)  After more wrangling the Panavia 200 was chosen and in September of 1971 the three governments signed an "Intention to Proceed" with a focus exclusively on a low-level strike capability.

 

The prototype first flew on 14 August, 1974 and development continued smoothly and the first aircraft were delivered to the RAF and the German Air Force on 5 and 6 June 1979 respectively.  The first Italian Tornado was delivered on 25 September 1981.

 

The Aircraft:

 

The IDS (InterDictor Strike) variant was the first produced and originally, the only intended variant.

1763551389_ItalyPanavia_Tornado_IDS.jpg.

 

The Panavia Tornado IDS is a multirole, twin-engined aircraft designed to excel at low-level penetration of enemy defences.  A mission seen as of paramount importance during the height of the Cold War.  This drove the design to its variable wing geometry, (allowing for minimal drag during the final phases of a strike, when speed was essential for survival) yet the ability to take off from relatively short airfields and conserve fuel with the wings outstretched.  It was given advanced navigation and flight computers (including the then state of the art fly-by-wire technology) and a combined navigation/attack pulse doppler radar.

 

The aircraft is equipped with the 2× 27 mm (1.06 in) Mauser BK-27 revolver cannon with 180 rounds each internally mounted under the fuselage.  In support of its strike mission set the aircraft was updated over its life-cycle to maintain the ability to carry the majority of air-launched weapons in the NATO inventory.  Guided and dumb bombs, cruise-missiles and anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, and anti-runway munitions.  Furthermore it has onboard countermeasure systems from ECM pods to flares and chaff.  Finally, while it does not have the capability for BVR air to air missiles it can carry Aim-9 Sidewinders or Aim-132 ASRAAMs.

 

Tornado IDS stats:

 

Spoiler

 

  • General characteristics
  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 16.72 m (54 ft 10 in)
  • Wingspan: 13.91 m (45 ft 8 in) at 25° sweep
  • Lower wingspan: 8.60 m (28 ft 3 in) swept at 67° sweep
  • Height: 5.95 m (19 ft 6 in)
  • Wing area: 26.6 m2 (286 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 13,890 kg (30,622 lb)
  • Gross weight: 20,240 kg (44,622 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Turbo-Union RB199-34R Mk 103 afterburning 3-spool turbofan, 43.8 kN (9,800 lbf) thrust each dry, 76.8 kN (17,300 lbf) with afterburner
  • Performance
  • Maximum speed: 2,400 km/h (1,500 mph, 1,300 kn) at 9,000 m (30,000 ft) (with operable variable intake ramps, which have been inhibited on the majority of Tornado aircraft except ADV variants) 1,482 km/h (921 mph; 800 kn) IAS near sea level.
  • Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
  • Range: 1,390 km (860 mi, 750 nmi)
  • Ferry range: 3,890 km (2,420 mi, 2,100 nmi)
  • Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
  • Wing loading: 767 kg/m2 (157 lb/sq ft)
  • Thrust/Weight: 0.77
  • Armament
  • Guns: 2× 27 mm (1.06 in) Mauser BK-27 revolver cannon internally mounted under the fuselage with 180 rounds each.
  • Hardpoints: 3× heavy duty under-fuselage and 4× swivelling under-wing pylon stations with a capacity of 9,000 kg (19,800 lb) of payload, the two inner wing pylons have shoulder launch rails for 2× Short-Range AAM (SRAAM) each,with provisions to carry combinations of:
  • Missiles:
  • AIM-9 Sidewinder or AIM-132 ASRAAM air-to-air missiles for self-defence
  • 6× AGM-65 Maverickor
  • 12× Brimstone missileor
  • 2× Storm Shadow
  • 9× ALARM anti-radiation missile
  • Bombs:
  • 5× 500 lb Paveway IVor
  • 3× 1000 lb (UK Mk 20) Paveway II/Enhanced Paveway IIor
  • 2× 2000 lb Paveway III (GBU-24)/Enhanced Paveway III (EGBU-24)or
  • BL755 cluster bombsor
  • Up to 2× JP233 or MW-1 munitions dispensers (for runway cratering operations)
  • Up to 4× B61 or WE.177 tactical nuclear weapons
  • Other: Up to 4× drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/flight time
  • Avionics
  • RAPTOR aerial reconnaissance pod
  • Rafael LITENING targeting pod; or
  • TIALD laser designator pod
  • GEC Sky Shadow electronic countermeasure pod

 

 

 

The ADV (Air Defense Variant) was the second major version of the aircraft.

1864175817_ItalianPanaviaTornadoADV.thum

 

 

The Tornado ADV's differences compared to the IDS include a greater sweep angle on the wing gloves, and the deletion of their kruger flaps, deletion of the port cannon, a longer radome for a Foxhunter radar, slightly longer airbrakes and a fuselage stretch of 1.36 m to allow the carriage of four Skyflash missiles. The stretch was applied to the Tornado front fuselage being built by the UK, with a plug being added immediately behind the cockpit, which had the unexpected benefit of reducing drag and making space for an additional fuel tank (Tank '0') carrying 200 imperial gallons (909 L; 240 U.S. gal) of fuel.[12] The artificial feel  of the fly-by-wire flight controls was lighter on the ADV than on the IDS.  Various internal avionics, pilot displays, guidance systems and software also differed; including an automatic wing sweep selector not fitted to the strike aircraft which only had manual controls.

 

Tornado ADV stats:

 

Spoiler

 

  • General characteristics
  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 18.68 m (61 ft 3 in)
  • Wingspan: 13.91 m (45 ft 8 in) at 25° sweep 8.6 m (28 ft) at 67° sweep
  • Height: 5.95 m (19 ft 6 in)
  • Wing area: 26.6 m2 (286 sq ft)
  • Empty weight: 14,500 kg (31,967 lb)
  • Max takeoff weight: 27,986 kg (61,699 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Turbo-Union RB199-34R afterburning 3-spool turbofan, 40.5 kN (9,100 lbf) thrust each dry, 73.5 kN (16,500 lbf) with afterburner
  • Performance
  • Maximum speed: 2,400 km/h (1,500 mph, 1,300 kn) / M2.2 at 9,000 m (29,528 ft) 1,482 km/h (921 mph; 800 kn) near sea level
  • Combat range: 1,853 km (1,151 mi, 1,001 nmi) subsonic >556 km (345 mi) supersonic
  • Ferry range: 4,265 km (2,650 mi, 2,303 nmi) with four external tanks[72]
  • Endurance: 2 hr combat air patrol at 560–740 km (348–460 mi) from base
  • Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft) [73]
  • Armament
  • Guns
  • 1 × 27 mm (1.063 in) Mauser BK-27 revolver cannon with 180 rounds (internally mounted under starboard side of fuselage, versus 2× BK-27 mounted on Panavia Tornado IDS)
  • Hardpoints: 10 total (4× semi-recessed under-fuselage, 2× under-fuselage, 4× swivelling under-wing) holding up to 9000 kg (19,800 lb) of payload, the two inner wing pylons have shoulder launch rails for 2× Short-Range AAM (SRAAM) each
  • 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or AIM-132 ASRAAM
  • 4× British Aerospace Skyflash or AIM-120 AMRAAM (mounted on 4 semi-recessed under-fuselage hardpoints)
  • Others:
  • Up to 2× drop tanks for extended range/loitering time. Up to 4 drop tanks for ferry role (at the expense of 4 Skyflash/AMRAAM).
  • Avionics
  • GEC-Marconi/Ferranti AI.24 Foxhunter radar

 

 

 

The ECR (Electronic Combat/Reconnaissance) was the third and final major version of the aircraft.

1614748149_ItalyPanaviaTornadoECR.thumb.

 

The ECR is a Tornado variant devoted to Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) missions. It was first delivered on 21 May 1990. The ECR has sensors to detect radar usage and is equipped with anti-radiation missiles.  The Luftwaffe's 35 ECRs were delivered new, while Italy received 16 converted IDSs. Italian Tornado ECRs differ from the Luftwaffe aircraft as they lack built-in reconnaissance capability and use RecceLite reconnaissance pods, also only Luftwaffe ECRs are equipped with RB199 Mk.105 engine, which has a slightly higher thrust rating.

 

 

Italian Service:

     The Italian Air Force (Aeronautica Militare) received a total of 100 Tornado IDSs (known as the A-200 in Italian service).  Eventually 16 A-200s were subsequently converted to the ECR configuration (known as the EA-200).  As a stop-gap measure for 10 years the Aeronautica Militare additionally operated 24 Tornado ADVs in the air defence role, which were leased from the RAF to cover the service gap between the retirement of the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter and the introduction of the Eurofighter Typhoon.   In July 2002, Italy signed a contract with the Tornado Management Agency (NETMA) and Panavia for the upgrading of 18 A-200s, the first of which was received in 2003. The upgrade introduced improved navigation systems (integrated GPS and laser INS) and the ability to carry new weapons, including the Storm Shadow cruise missile, Joint Direct Attack Munition and Paveway III laser-guided bombs.  In 2010 a major upgrade and life extension programme was initiated, to provide new digital displays, Link 16 communications capability, night-vision goggles compatibility, and several other upgrades.  In the long term, it is planned to replace the Tornado IDS/ECR fleet in Italian service with the F-35 with the final Italian Tornado scheduled to be phased out in 2025.

 

Italian Combat Operations:

     Italian Tornados, along with RAF Tornados, took part in the Gulf War of 1991.  During the conflict, one aircraft was lost to Iraqi anti-aircraft fire, the pilots ejected safely and were captured by Iraqi forces.

     Italian Tornados were deployed in the NATO-organised Operation Allied Force over Kosovo in 1999, the A-200s served in the bombing role while the EA-200s patrolled the combat region, acting to suppress enemy anti-aircraft radars firing 115 AGM-88 HARM missiles.

     Italy, along with several other nations, supported military action in Afghanistan, dispatching four A-200 Tornados to the region.

     Italian Tornado A-200 and EA-200 aircraft participated in the enforcement of a UN no-fly zone during the 2011 military intervention in Libya where Italian Tornados launched 20 to 30 Storm Shadow cruise missiles

     

     Currently this recommendation is for the inclusion of both the IDS and the ADV variant for Italy.  Italy was an integral part of the design and production of the Panavia Tornado and used all three variants of the aircraft as well as extensively using the IDS and ECR versions in combat.  The only reason I am not recommending the ECR at this time is because there is no Suppression of Enemy Air Defense mechanics in the game.  If those are added I will firmly recommend the ECR for inclusion in the Italian Aviation Tech Tree.

 

 

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado_ADV

http://www.jetwashaviationphotos.com/italian-air-force-tornados.html

https://www.panavia.de/operations/squadrons/italy/

Edited by Conte_Baracca
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  • Suggestion Moderator

Just a small personal thing but calling the ADV the second major iteration of the tornado is a bit miss leading IIRC it had the least built of it and the ECR came first. The only reason for the ADV's construction was the RAF's desire for a new interceptor.

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3 hours ago, TerikG2014 said:

Just a small personal thing but calling the ADV the second major iteration of the tornado is a bit miss leading IIRC it had the least built of it and the ECR came first. The only reason for the ADV's construction was the RAF's desire for a new interceptor.

According tot he sources the ECR didn't come around until the 1990s...

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

Hell yeah +1! Actually I would love to see the ADV model in both British and Italian tech tree and the IDS model in British, Italian, and German tech tree! They have put F-14 Tomcat into consideration, so I would think this will also be possible to be added into consideration as well. If they would have a update called "Variable Sweep Wings" that involves all the variable sweep wing fighters and bombers... Gosh, think about that!:lol2:

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1 hour ago, KomiyaArisa said:

 If they would have a update called "Variable Sweep Wings" that involves all the variable sweep wing fighters and bombers... Gosh, think about that!:lol2:

no because some sweep wings are needed right now (Mig-23) and some can be added to bring diversity (Su-17 and F-111)

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16 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

no because some sweep wings are needed right now (Mig-23) and some can be added to bring diversity (Su-17 and F-111)

By mentioning Mig-23 do you mean that Russian tech tree needs better SARH missiles? Otherwise I cant figure out the reason why Mig-23 are so necessary to be added right now...:blink:

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  • 1 month later...

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/364875-possible-additions-to-the-italian-tech-tree/&do=findComment&comment=8759866

 

Btw on Aeronautica Militare site, on Stormo pages apart from A-200C and EA-200B, there are other Tornado designations (for ECR and IDS), I'll post them later, currently the site is under maintanance.

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17 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/364875-possible-additions-to-the-italian-tech-tree/&do=findComment&comment=8759866

 

Btw on Aeronautica Militare site, on Stormo pages apart from A-200C and EA-200B, there are other Tornado designations (for ECR and IDS), I'll post them later, currently the site is under maintanance.

So, on the 6th Stormo page, there are:

A-200A; A-200C; TA-200A; TA-200B; EA-200B; EA-200D

TA-200 are probably training versions.

A-200C is IDS.

EA-200B is ECR, EA-200D looks like another version of ECR, I wonder what the difference is.

A-200A, on Tornado page, is assigned to Tornado without clarification.

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/mezzi/mlinea/Pagine/TORNADOIDSITECR.aspx

 

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/organizzazione/REPARTI/divolo/Pagine/6Stormo.aspx

 

Edited by _Condottiero_
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16 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

So, on the 6th Stormo page, there are:

A-200A; A-200C; TA-200A; TA-200B; EA-200B; EA-200D

TA-200 are probably training versions.

A-200C is IDS.

EA-200B is ECR, EA-200D looks like another version of ECR, I wonder what the difference is.

A-200A, on Tornado page, is assigned to Tornado without clarification.

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/mezzi/mlinea/Pagine/TORNADOIDSITECR.aspx

 

http://www.aeronautica.difesa.it/organizzazione/REPARTI/divolo/Pagine/6Stormo.aspx

 

This is really cool. Would like to know the differences as well, my guess is avionics type stuff.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
37 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

its' a bit too strong for the current meta , the next small step italy could get is a F-104ASA with AIM-9L and whatever sparrow gaijin feel like

Aspides.

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  • Senior Forum Moderator

Fun fact: the ADV version had the refueling probe in the other side of the plane because... well it was designed by Brits! :D

tornado-f3-99070a.jpg

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