f-104 Aeritalia F-104S ASA

[mc205v 786]

7 hours ago, Ziggy1989 said:

Cant the 104S equip the Aspide? 

F-104S can carry Sparrow AIM-7E, Aspide missile can be carried by upgraded F-104S in ASA.

[DMSPKSP 105]

This would be a brilliant addition. Supporting!

[Potatoman530 31]

Right now Italy does not have anything competitive at top tier. The F-104S did get a buff from the sparrow but, half the time they don't work and if the guy you fire at has a brain cell then he dodges it. And on top of that you only have two. Italy is the only tech tree in the game with IR missiles that pull less then 10gs. I say that all they need to change to add this plane is just have it only face planes that have flares. The Phantom right now is broken to say the least 8 missiles 4 of which are guaranteed kills if you have a brain and on top of that flares which make almost impossible to kill it with an IR missile. If they just gave Communist nations a mig-21 bis which could carry 6 missiles including the r60m and they let the advanced phantoms carry AIM-9Ls I would be fine with this plane being added. However even if this does not happen and we eventually see things like the F-14 and the F-15C as well as the Mig-23, The F-104ASA will be added because its a copy paste with stuff that will already be added. 

[DMSPKSP 105]

I agree with Potatoman. Italy is all but dead, with very few new aircraft since the tree was added apart from the Starfighter, which by far was the best addition yet. However, the plane's become less and less competitive for the average player (I say this because most people prioritize missiles over guns), and as other nations have Starfighters with more advanced missiles, I say this thing would be a simple, yet effective, addition for Italy. The ASA is needed in game.

[Nostadad 428]

Man rocket with flares... +1

 

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

All Gaijin needs to do is Copy past the 104S and add ASA behind the name. 

 

Give it the Aspide that has a greater reliability than the aim7 and a radar look down capability.

 

would like them to only allow 2 aim9L's, but ill be happy with just reliable radar guided. 

[Aerobane 4,140]

8 minutes ago, Ziggy1989 said:

would like them to only allow 2 aim9L's, but ill be happy with just reliable radar guided. 

Are you proposing they add the F104S ASA with Aim 9L? That would be incredibly powercreep even if they finally fix the F104S and implement realistic restrictions on when it can and cannot be equipped with an M61. Just 2 Aim 9Ls would be 2 guaranteed kills for anything but the most incompetent of pilots. Aim 9L would be simply insane to add to the current meta, especially on an aircraft that is already doing extremely well.

 

If you are proposing they add the F104S ASA without the Aim 9L, then that is absurd as the addition of Aim 9L is one of the most important THE most important change in the ASA upgrades, especially in the context of war thunder's close range meta.

 

Its just not the time. They haven't even fixed the multitude of problems with the F104S. What we currently have ingame is so far from the actual F104S that if they were to just fix the F104S it would be like adding a whole new plane. (well, more like splitting the current F104S into F104S AWX and fighter bomber variants). So neither the meta nor their modelling/bug fixing department are ready to implement the F104S ASA.

[mc205v 786]

9 hours ago, Aerobane said:

Are you proposing they add the F104S ASA with Aim 9L? That would be incredibly powercreep even if they finally fix the F104S and implement realistic restrictions on when it can and cannot be equipped with an M61. Just 2 Aim 9Ls would be 2 guaranteed kills for anything but the most incompetent of pilots. Aim 9L would be simply insane to add to the current meta, especially on an aircraft that is already doing extremely well.

 

If you are proposing they add the F104S ASA without the Aim 9L, then that is absurd as the addition of Aim 9L is one of the most important THE most important change in the ASA upgrades, especially in the context of war thunder's close range meta.

 

Its just not the time. They haven't even fixed the multitude of problems with the F104S. What we currently have ingame is so far from the actual F104S that if they were to just fix the F104S it would be like adding a whole new plane. (well, more like splitting the current F104S into F104S AWX and fighter bomber variants). So neither the meta nor their modelling/bug fixing department are ready to implement the F104S ASA.

Don't worry, the F-104S-ASA with AIM-9L will be added when other nations have the missile equivalent too.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

On 12/11/2020 at 20:03, Aerobane said:

Are you proposing they add the F104S ASA with Aim 9L? That would be incredibly powercreep even if they finally fix the F104S and implement realistic restrictions on when it can and cannot be equipped with an M61. Just 2 Aim 9Ls would be 2 guaranteed kills for anything but the most incompetent of pilots. Aim 9L would be simply insane to add to the current meta, especially on an aircraft that is already doing extremely well.

 

If you are proposing they add the F104S ASA without the Aim 9L, then that is absurd as the addition of Aim 9L is one of the most important THE most important change in the ASA upgrades, especially in the context of war thunder's close range meta.

 

Its just not the time. They haven't even fixed the multitude of problems with the F104S. What we currently have ingame is so far from the actual F104S that if they were to just fix the F104S it would be like adding a whole new plane. (well, more like splitting the current F104S into F104S AWX and fighter bomber variants). So neither the meta nor their modelling/bug fixing department are ready to implement the F104S ASA.

Reading comprehension is not you strong suit I see. 

 

I said I would LIKE to, but no. 

 

Give the Aspide to the ASA, make it more reliable than the Aim7E with the better more reliable radar. IT ACTUALLY DID HAVE.  The f-104S and ASA were built specifically as interceptors for radar guided munitions. that was its unique edge. 

 

Jesus, you people stay crying about the aim9L. I guarantee you were also one of the same people that whined about radar guided missiles coming in too. 

 

 

 

On 13/11/2020 at 05:54, mc205v said:

Don't worry, the F-104S-ASA with AIM-9L will be added when other nations have the missile equivalent too.

That still does not solve anything now. 

 

Italy has one supersonic fighter that has zero competitive capability at 10.3 and 10.7

 

 The F-104S currently is not even real. It is completely fictional. it cannot house the m61 and the aim7 in the same loadout. 

 

 

[Aerobane 4,140]

26 minutes ago, Ziggy1989 said:

Italy has one supersonic fighter that has zero competitive capability at 10.3 and 10.7

 

I couldn't disagree more.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

52 minutes ago, Aerobane said:

I couldn't disagree more.

That is an ok record for the 104S I guess. But does not change anything.  

 

Of course exceptions exist, that is why it is called an exception. It does not change the fact data clearly shows the fighter is uncompetitive at 10.7 that player decide to take F4s and SMTs over the 104S any day. 

 

the fact still remains for the majority for players that play top tier, play phantoms and SMTS. Of course the reason being that is is far more easy to get ace games in an aircraft that have twice the aim7s, 4 IR missiles, and flares.

 

Have you played the f4e much? I guarantee that you would pull 3 times the amount of kills to the deaths you currently have in the 104S. 

 

You have only have 407 battles in the 104S and only 384 kills, that is not impressive, that is actually terrible.

 

I have 695 battles in the f4e and have 831 kills playing ONLY AIR RB.

 

You will never pull this record in a 104S. That is not to say because you lack skill, it is because the 104S simply lacks the armaments and capability of other aircraft. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Ziggy1989

[mc205v 786]

 

58 minutes ago, Ziggy1989 said:

The F-104S currently is not even real. It is completely fictional. it cannot house the m61 and the aim7 in the same loadout.

The F-104S to carry the AIM-7 Sparrow missiles had to remove the M61 and instead mount the "CW Continuos Wave" for the illuminator of the Sparrow missile.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

1 minute ago, mc205v said:

 

The F-104S to carry the AIM-7 Sparrow missiles had to remove the M61 and instead mount the "CW Continuos Wave" for the illuminator of the Sparrow missile.

Exacly, very good.

 

That is why the 104S we have in game is fictional. FALSO.

 

Therefore Italy does not have a single legitimate supersonic fighter at top tier.

 

We need the ASA 

 

 

[PlanyKaanere 722]

1 hour ago, Ziggy1989 said:

 The F-104S currently is not even real. It is completely fictional. it cannot house the m61 and the aim7 in the same loadout. 

 

Having a single unhistorical loadout doesn't make a plane completely fictional.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

9 minutes ago, PlanyKaanere said:

 

Having a single unhistorical loadout doesn't make a plane completely fictional.

Yes it does. It is no different if you gave it the aim9X.  

 

The plane never carried it, nor did it ever carry the cannon and the aim7 at the same time, IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. Thus making the plane we have in game FICTIONAL. 

 

Now that I think of it, I do not believe there is any evidence that the 104S carried 6 aim9bs ever. 

 

You are also missing the point of topic. Italy needs a competent top tier fighter. The 104S having a fake loadout is a reason among many. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Ziggy1989

[mc205v 786]

1 hour ago, Ziggy1989 said:

Now that I think of it, I do not believe there is any evidence that the 104S carried 6 aim9bs ever. 

The F-104S could carry 6 AIM-9Bs if desired

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

Honestly I don't understand why they can't add placeholder missiles as they do with top tier shells. Just add ASA with AIM-9J and when the time of AIM-9L comes just replace them.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

1 hour ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Honestly I don't understand why they can't add placeholder missiles as they do with top tier shells. Just add ASA with AIM-9J and when the time of AIM-9L comes just replace them.

I agree, but they do not even have to do that. Bring the ASA in with its superior radar for its special radar guided missile the Aspide, just two of the.  The missile the plane was designed specifically for. 

 

Give it a better track rate than the aim7e and call it a day until the aim9L comes out for everyone. Really simple. 

 

Or just give everyone flares, the 21bis can carry them, the ASA, mirage, the 104G's, etc.

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

12 hours ago, Aerobane said:

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Please teach me your ways.

 

11 hours ago, Ziggy1989 said:

Yes it does. It is no different if you gave it the aim9X.  

 

The plane never carried it, nor did it ever carry the cannon and the aim7 at the same time, IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. Thus making the plane we have in game FICTIONAL. 

 

Now that I think of it, I do not believe there is any evidence that the 104S carried 6 aim9bs ever. 

 

You are also missing the point of topic. Italy needs a competent top tier fighter. The 104S having a fake loadout is a reason among many. 

 

 

 

I think I recall reading on the manual that it could carry as many AAms as there were pylons, it was just not advisable due to possible incidents with debris when firing one.

[mc205v 786]

15 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Just add ASA with AIM-9J and when the time of AIM-9L comes just replace them

The F-104S / ASA manual refers only to the Sidewinder AIM-9B and 9L (in addition to Sparrow or Aspide), the 9Js are not mentioned.

Edited November 16, 2020 by mc205v

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

8 hours ago, mc205v said:

The F-104S / ASA manual refers only to the Sidewinder AIM-9B and 9L (in addition to Sparrow or Aspide), the 9Js are not mentioned.

Yes, but what stops us of having J as a placeholder, as we have DM33 for STRV122 for example. Iirc we've already had such situations with some planes as well.

[mc205v 786]

33 minutes ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Yes, but what stops us of having J as a placeholder, as we have DM33 for STRV122 for example. Iirc we've already had such situations with some planes as well.

I understand what you mean, how many players will complain about it?

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

23 minutes ago, mc205v said:

I understand what you mean, how many players will complain about it?

Whatever really, it won't make this plane insanely op, just on par with other tops. And as for those who will complain about lack of Limas it will be said about balance reasons and future replacement.

[Ziggy1989 1,648]

Even if the Limas were added, if it just got two, it would be fine. The L does not even turn that hard. The two best nations both have flares.

 

Some dude here said it would be so OP that it would be 2 kills every time. 

 

 LOL and having (4) Aim9J,(4) Aim7E, M61 cannon and flares is not???? Or (6) R60 and flares?? 

[Potatoman530 31]

The f-15C and the mig-23 are not far off like a patch or two. the F-15C could be able to carry AIM-9Ls and maybe a more modern version of the sparrow and the mig-23 could get R-60Ms and the r-27  The F-104ASA could maybe fall into that category or below with the mig-21 bis with R-60Ms or perhaps the phantoms with AIM-9Ls