Vultee V-11 & V-12 Series: Striking Back

[Zombificus 792]

The Vultee V-11 & V-12 were a series of ground attack aircraft built by the American Vultee Aircraft Corporation from 1935 for the export market. Although the USAAF rejected them, preferring twin-engined attackers, the planes saw relative success as exports. Their most notable operator was China, whose Vultee attackers were the only examples of the type to see significant combat, serving from 1937 to 1940 on the front lines of the war against Japan. In recognition of their historic service, I'm suggesting the ROCAF's full fleet of V-11G/GB, V-12C and V-12D attack aircraft as a strong family of aircraft that would help fill out the Chinese attacker line without resorting to more copy-pastes. 

 

 

History:

 

When single-engined airliners were banned on most US routes due to safety concerns, Vultee were left with a plane without a purpose. Their V-1A airliner was fast and modern, but would never be a sales success in the face of the new restrictions, so the company turned instead to military applications for the airframe. Fitting four .30 cal Browning machine guns in the wings and bomb racks beneath them, complete with a small internal bomb bay and one-to-two rear MGs, Vultee began to seek buyers for their new light attacker. The USAAF wasn't interested, having decided on a twin-engined configuration for its attackers, but did eventually purchase 7 planes to test the pros and cons of single-engined designs, which they designated YA-19 and later used as engine test-beds. Overseas, the V-11 saw more success: 26 were sold to Brazil, 30 to China, and 40 to Turkey. Although some sources state that China received the two-seat V-11G, others clarify that they in fact purchased just one as a pattern plane for domestic production of three-seat V-11GBs from parts bought from Vultee. The GB variant allowed for the V-11 to be more easily used in the light bomber role by adding a third man -- the bomb aimer -- who was given a bomb sight and a ventral machine gun for defence. Though the Chinese were eager for any modern aircraft in their fight against the Japanese, they were somewhat underwhelmed by their V-11s and initially focused their training and procurement on Soviet-built SB-2 and DB-3, but when Vultee developed the improved V-12, China was once again quick to place orders.

 

Vultee's unfortunately-timed V-1A single-seat airliner and the prototypes of its military descendants: the V-11GB & V-12D. Both attacker models saw use by the ROCAF until 1940.

 

The V-12 featured a more powerful engine and more streamlined construction than the V-11, noticeably improving its performance, and the Chinese ordered examples of both the V-12C and V-12D, once more following the pattern of importing a single example from Vultee along with parts for domestic production. The V-12C was modelled on the V-11GB three-seat configuration, but significantly streamlined the airframe and fitted a new 1000hp engine instead of the original 850hp one, which raised its top speed from 230mph to 243mph. Additionally, two of the wing-mounted .30 cal MGs were replaced by M2 Browning .50 cal HMGs instead, making the V-12C the best-armed of the models China received. The following V-12D focused more on performance enhancements, installing an even more powerful 1600hp engine while reducing armament to just two nose-mounted guns, one .30 cal and one .50 cal, resulting in a series-best top speed of 281 mph. 25 V-12Ds were constructed at the Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company in Loiwing, but before production of the improved V-12D could proceed, the factory was bombed. The parts were sent to Hindustan Aircraft Limited in Bangalore, instead, where an uncertain number were built before the factory turned its attention to other, more urgent work (at least 3 are known to have been made, but some sources claim as many as 33 V-12Ds completed). The ROCAF's V-12s saw more success than their V-11s had, but by 1940 their once-modern design was becoming rapidly obsolete in the face of new Japanese fighters and they were retired from frontline duties. One of the Vultees' final missions came on February 5th, 1939, when four light bombers of the ROCAF's 10th Squadron attacked a Japanese-held airfield at Yuncheng, but this would prove their last hurrah, rapidly increasing Japanese air superiority preventing further successes. 

 

Specifications (V-11G/GB):

 

 

Length: 11.53m

Wingspan: 15.24m

Height: 3.04m

Weight (Empty): 2927kg

Weight (Gross): 4726kg

Powerplant: 1x 850hp Wright SR-1820-F53 Cyclone radial engine

Max Speed: 200mph (320 kph) at sea level; 230mph (368 kph) at 3353m (11000ft)

Rate of Climb: 6 m/s

Service Ceiling: 6200m

Crew: 2 (Pilot, Observer/Gunner) for V-11G; 3 (Pilot, Observer/Gunner, Bombardier/Gunner) for V-11GB

Offensive Armament: 4x .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning M1919 MGs in the wing roots (RPG unknown)

Defensive Armament: 1x dorsal .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning machine gun (V-11G & GB); 1x ventral .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning machine gun (V-11GB only)

Payload: Max. 500kg (1100lb) total: bombs up to 500kg weight externally; optionally 6x 40kg (30lb) bombs in internal bomb cells in the wing roots

 

Specifications (V-12C):

 

 

Length: 11.43m

Wingspan: 15.24m

Height: 3.93m

Weight (Empty): 2927kg

Weight (Gross): 4726kg

Powerplant: 1x 1000hp Wright R-1820-105B Cyclone radial engine

Max Speed: 217 mph (347.2 kph) at sea level; 243 mph (388.8 kph) at 3353m (11000ft)

Rate of Climb: 6.53 m/s

Service Ceiling: 6705m

Crew: 3 (Pilot, Observer/Gunner, Bombardier/Gunner)

Offensive Armament: 2x .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning M1919 MGs & 2x .50 cal (12.7mm) Browning M2 HMGs in the wing roots (RPG unknown)

Defensive Armament: 2x .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning machine guns (one dorsal gun for the Observer; one ventral gun for the Bombardier)

Payload: Max. 500kg (1100lb) total: bombs up to 500kg weight externally; optionally 6x 40kg (30lb) bombs in internal bomb cells in the wing roots

 

Specifications (V-12D):

 

 

Length: 11.66m

Wingspan: 15.24m

Height: 4.42m

Weight (Empty): 2927kg

Weight (Gross): 4726kg

Powerplant: 1x 1600hp Wright R-2600 Cyclone 14 radial engine

Max Speed: 256 mph (409 kph) at sea level; 281 mph (449.6 kph) at 3353m (11000ft)

Rate of Climb: 10.09 m/s

Service Ceiling: 7742m

Crew: 3 (Pilot, Observer/Gunner, Bombardier/Gunner)

Offensive Armament: 1x .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning M1919 MGs & 1x .50 cal (12.7mm) Browning M2 HMGs in the nose (RPG unknown)

Defensive Armament: 2x .30 cal (7.62mm) Browning machine guns (one dorsal gun for the Observer; one ventral gun for the Bombardier)

Payload: Max. 500kg (1100lb) total: bombs up to 500kg weight externally; up to 20x 40kg (30lb) bombs in an internal bay

 

Their Place In War Thunder:

 

Each one offering a different experience, the V-11/V-12 family would provide three competitive aircraft for their attack line, which currently has just one plane below Rank III: the Hs 123 A-1 biplane light bomber. Compared to planes already in the game, the V-11G/GB is most similar to the Vought V-156B in the British tree, both planes having an armament of four 7.62/7.7mm MGs, a top speed at altitude around the 360kph mark (the V-11 being slightly faster at 368 kph), a climb rate around 6 m/s, and a maximum payload of one 1000lb bomb. The V-11GB has an additional defensive gun, but being small-calibre it's unlikely to be a huge advantage, particularly as low-tier planes of this type aren't often attacked from below due to their tendency to ground-pound or dive towards their targets, which makes the two quite comparable. By comparison, it seems the V-11G/GB would be well suited  to a BR of 1.3, just like the V-156B and Hs 123. The V-12C is faster and better armed than the V-11GB, making it more comparable to a different member of the V-156/SB2U family: the American SB2U-3 Vindicator at BR 1.7. The SB2U-3's four .50 cal Brownings outdo the V-12's half-and-half combo of .30s and .50s, but while the SB2U's speed and climb rate remains static at the V-156/SB2U-2's 360 kph & 6.2 m/s, the streamlining and power increase of the V-12C boosts it to almost 389 kph and puts its rate of climb just above the SB2U's at 6.53 m/s. The SB2U-3 also keeps the earlier models' 1000lb max payload, keeping it on par with the V-12C and making its guns the only armament advantage it has over the Vultee plane. Its 12.7mm tail gun is definitely better than the 7.7mms of the V-12C, but on the other hand the two gunners of the Vultee may keep it in the fight for longer, since losing one doesn't prevent it from defending itself. On the whole, the V-12C seems on a par with the SB2U-3, losing out on armament but possessing a higher top speed, and should do well at the US plane's BR of 1.7. The final Vultee plane, V-12D, extends that tradeoff of armament for speed even further: its 449.6 kph top speed leaves the SB2Us in the dust, but with just one .50 cal and one .30 cal it would be unwise to engage any other planes head-on, much less one as formidably armed as the SB2U-3. This model, in contrast to the V-12C, would be best used as a fast bomber rather than a fighter, since its speed advantage over similar planes will quickly go to waste in a dogfight. Because it carries just half pf the V-12C's offensive armament, I'm unsure if it needs a higher BR or would be better off as an alternative to the earlier V-12 at the same BR. Whatever the eventual BRs and placements of these planes, their similarities to proven aircraft already in the game makes me confident that they would be good and useful aircraft. Providing an alternative to the Hs 123 in air battles while simultaneously being a better CAS option for combined battles, these Vultee attackers would fit well after the biplane in the attacker line, filling out China's rather bare-bones Rank I with a family of unique and historically important planes. As an added plus, owing to the differences between China's V-11s and the USAAF's YA-19s (not to mention the modifications they underwent in US testing) these planes would remain a unique part of the Chinese tree even if an American example was added. Historically significant and with a clear place in the game, I'm confident the V-11/V-12 series would be a worthy addition to War Thunder's Chinese air tree.

 

I hope you like these planes, and I look forwards to hearing from you in the comments!

 

More Pictures:

 

Spoiler

The prototype V-11GB in flight, with both defensive guns retracted.

 

A V-11GB with its dorsal gun out and the ventral MG out of sight in the lowered tunnel, not fully deployed.

 

One of the ROCAF's V-11s, with what looks like a Northrop Gamma 2E behind it.

 

A better-resolution crop of the above image, showing the V-11 in more detail.

 

An illustration of the above plane, showing the colours of its ROCAF livery.

 

An alternative take on the same plane, with its ventral gun retracted and a darker, duller colour. 

 

An illustration of several ROCAF bombers & attackers, including a V-11.

 

These photos are sometimes labelled as V-12Ds, but it seems they might actually be the prototype V-12C in the US.

 

The prototype V-12D with its larger engine.

 

A Chinese V-12D.

 

An illustration of a V-11GB, showing all its armament, with an account of the mission against Yuncheng.

 

A schematic comparing the V-12C and V-12D.

 

A schematic for the V-11GB, showing bomb and gun positions.

 

Another schematic for the V-11, showing its landing gear in more detail.

 

A Turkish V-11GB; with 10 more than China, Turkey was the V-11's main operator, but their planes never saw combat.

 

A ROCAF paint guide for a model V-11.

 

One of the USAAF's modified engine test planes.

 

Sources:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vultee_V-11

http://www.americancombatplanes.com/v11_1.html

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems///aircraft/a-19.htm

http://ram-home.com/ram-old/vultee-v-11.html

https://www.historynet.com/mystery-ship-january-2016-vultee-v-11.htm

http://www.aerofiles.com/_vult.html

http://all-aero.com/index.php/56-planes-v-w/16891-vultee-v-12

Edited June 4, 2020 by Zombificus

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[cricket27 164]

+1  I have always considered these necessary for the Chinese tech tree.

[Milocat 4,854]

+1, these would be great additions to the tree.

[leroyonly 4,310]

Alright, everyone keep it on track with a discussion about these aircraft.

 

@Borotovas It's fine to disagree with a suggestion, however DO NOT turn that into a pure self promoting post for your own suggestions that are completely unrelated to what is being suggested and as such try to derail the entire thread. 

[Solarmod 1,203]

+1, would rather see more unique early tier Chinese aircraft.

[Stridswombat 1,089]

I'm still hoping we can get some J 11's for the Swedish tree since they essentially funded their construction in the first place.

[Borotovas 4,500]

I voted no because this is another copy+paste plane.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Borotovas

[Zombificus 792]

2 hours ago, Stridswombat said:

I'm still hoping we can get some J 11's for the Swedish tree since they essentially funded their construction in the first place.

More planes for Sweden is always a good thing. Although they’ve got a really strong set of planes right now there aren’t that many of them. That said, did you mean the J 10 (Vultee P-66)? The J 11 was Sweden’s imported CR.42, which is already in the game.

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

2 hours ago, Borotovas said:

I voted no because this is another copy+paste plane.

 

Um...no it's not, because these planes aren't in the game on any tech tree.  The USAAF didn't want them, and the primary user of both aircraft was the ROCAF.

[Solarmod 1,203]

4 hours ago, Borotovas said:

I voted no because this is another copy+paste plane.

No offense but.. Do you read the post before voting no sometimes?

[Stridswombat 1,089]

7 hours ago, Zombificus said:

More planes for Sweden is always a good thing. Although they’ve got a really strong set of planes right now there aren’t that many of them. That said, did you mean the J 10 (Vultee P-66)? The J 11 was Sweden’s imported CR.42, which is already in the game.

I did indeed mean J 10, thank you.

[Yukino_Yukinoshi 46]

Indeed, Chinese pilots flew these slow Vultees into the bloody battle of 1937. These planes should only be added to the Chinese TT.

+1

[Wolf_89 2,525]

I'l take all of them. And 2 of them are on the Chinese release tree.

V 11G and V 12D

Spoiler

 

[Borotovas 4,500]

On 05/09/2020 at 05:56, Wolf_89 said:

I'l take all of them. And 2 of them are on the Chinese release tree.

V 11G and V 12D

  Hide contents

 

 

This was the last officially confirmed Chinese plane on the TT guide.

[Bobspineable 28]

On 06/06/2020 at 18:08, Borotovas said:

I voted no because this is another copy+paste plane.

But this ain't a copy paste plane, it would be a uniue vehicle since we don't have the aircraft currently.

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Pictures of ROCAF V-11's and V-12's

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leroyonly 4,310]

As previously the V-11 and now the V-12 have been implemented with update 2.11 Ground Breaking,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.