Patria AMV with 105mm gun Prototype

[финский 1,710]

 

 

NOTE: This is a suggestion for the first production Patria AMV chassis, NOT the XP chassis that came in 2013-2014, the same turret/gun was tested on it too, however I am suggesting this for the AMV heavy weapons platform. (NOTE: HWP is much not different to normal Gen 1 Patria AMV, there is just a hole cut out for the turret placement + stronger structure)

 

Patria AMV HWP with CMI 105mm is a prototype tank destroyer made by the Finnish government defense company Patria. I am here to suggest that this vehicle be added to the Swedish tree.

 

Also Please do note that all my measurement pictures remain private, however at request I can share them. However all rights to those pictures are reserved unless otherwise agreed. The use of the pictures marked with "Shot on MI 9T AI Triple Camera" and the pictures made in ms paint depicting the armour structures can be used within fair use law of EU. No monetary gain using these pictures can happen unless otherwise agreed, exception is made for Gaijins use of them. Monetary gain from Patria AMV however is not up to me, all rights to it are with the Finnish Government and their company Patria.

 

The date of when this tank destroyer proposition began is unknown however the live fire testing started in June of 2007. The Finnish NEMO 120mm turreted mortar system was also tested on the same day.

Patria AMV was developed based on a study made by the Finnish Army Command in 1995 on various armored vehicle concepts, and this was found to be the best replacement for Panssari-SISU.

 

Reasoning behind adding to Swedish tree:

Sweden and Finland has a strong military relationship and history, however the main reason I am suggesting this for Swedish tree is mainly because, Sweden operates the Patria AMV.

 

This would be a good squadron vehicle in the Swedish tree, it is an prototype with a good gun, great mobility and great armour for its vehicle type. And it also has 16 smoke grenades for that nice smokescreen, from how they are placed I reckon the give you 300 degree protection, only leaving out small part open in back.

It would have an 105mm rifled gun, 16 shells, autoloader, STANAG 6 protection infront, STANAG 4 for turret, STANAG 3 at side, 100kmh speed, 3 crew and is amphibious. Commanders Night Vision also.

 

The structure of Patria AMV is made of ARMOX 500T steel source

 

Ammo selection would be all NATO 105mm´s but in Finland´s case, it likely was the DM-33. Tho imo, the 105mm Falarick ATGM, with 550mm pen past ERA at 5km max range.

 

2 Videos with the 105mm gun platform on it.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Details about the AMV

Spoiler

Mobility

Engine 543hp DI 12 Scania Diesel

Transmission 7 speed Automatic

Top Road Speed 100 km/h

Amphibious Speed 10 km/h

Suspension Type hydropneumatic, height adjustment optional

Road Range 600 – 800 km

Vertical Obstacle 0.7m

Water Capability Fording 2m / Amphibious 6 – 10 km/h

Trench Crossing 2.1m

Gradient 60%

Side Slope 30%

 

Dimensions
length: 8.25 m
width: 3.19 m
height: 3.38 m
track gauge: 2.45 m
wheelbase: 1.40 + 1.70 + 1.45 m
Fuel tank capacity: 230 + 240 l

Engine
Make / model / operating mode: Scania DI 12/4-T, turbocharged
displacement / propulsion: 11.7 l / diesel
max power / torque: 360 kW / 1974Nm
Transmission: ZF 7HP902 automatic transmission
Transfer case: Overview
Differential locks: Yes
Suspension type: Hydropneumatic, height-adjustable system
Tire size / type: 14.00-20 / 164 G, safety padding

 

Armour  (Pictures are made by me, using values I have measured in Parola Tank Museum in Finland)

ALSO, I forgot to add it to the armour drawings, but another important armour piece is the driver's 8mm shield from engine and from front. Its pretty much fully identical as on Centauro MGS.

 

Below you see those two of those 25mm thick ARMOX 500T slabs.

Measurement of side armour, bottom part not the angled one. 25mm thick.

Below is frontal armour pieces

View of the fuel tanks, they are both located under and behind the passenger seats

View inside

View of the bottom

 

Parola museum info graph

 

 

Turret/Gun Details

Spoiler

 

Intended ammunition M1060CV, M1061 HEAT, M1204 CANISTER, M416 SMOKE, M393 A3 HESH.

http://www.army-guide.com/images/ct-cv-wieruw7.jpg http://www.army-guide.com/images/ct-cv-wieruw5.jpg

NOTE: 12 shells are stored within the safe storage (i.e. blowout), and 4 shells are in ready racks, in the turret.

The Cockerill CV HP Gun

•    Calibre: NATO 105 mm
•    Barrel length: 5546/L51
•    Peak recoil force: < 150 kn
•    Rifled
•    Autofrettage technology
•    Design pressure 120% of classical 105 mm gun pressure
•    Single baffle e muzzle brake
•    Elevation -10° to +42°

 

CT-CV 105HP Turret Features

•    Two man turret with autoloader
•    digitized electronic architecture of latest generation
•    Electro-mechanical power control system
•    Stabilised for firing on the move and against moving targets
•    Advanced Fire Control System with Hunter/Killer capability
•    for single target and multiple target engagements
•    Unique high angles of elevation and depression -10° to +42°
•    Improved optics to optimize local situational awareness
•    Advanced C4I facilities
•    Coax machine gun 7.62 mm
•    Modular ballistic protection up to STANAG 4569 level 4 and even 5
•    Laser warning and complete protection against NBC contamination
•    Pintle-mounted 7.62 mm
•    Smoke grenade launchers

 

Acronyms:

AMV = Armoured Modular Vehicle

HWP = Heavy Weapons Platform 

 

Sources:

http://fighting-vehicles.com/patria-amv-ct-cv-105hp-turret/

https://maavoimat.fi/xa360

https://www.armyrecognition.com/belgium_belgian_light_heavy_weapons_uk/ct-cv_weapon_system_105_120_mm_turret_armoured_armored_cockerill_gun_vehicle_design_development_prod.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_4569#Kinetic_Energy_3

https://www.valka.cz/XA-360-t12996

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/patria-6x6.htm

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=3085&printmode=1

Parola tank museum

My measurements of Patria AMV Gen 1 in Parola Tank Museum

 

 

Editors notes/changes log

19.09.2020, 19:45: Started this log, before this log I changed up things. Added more armour values, etc. Earlier I had an incorrect armour values of the side armour, apparently the Poles added a 8mm plate to be before the 10mm outermost plate. So I had to remove that from the suggestion. ALSO I am going to Parola museum tomorrow (20.9.2020) to measure the armour thicknesses.

 

20.09.2020, 18:00: Went to Parola Museum, and damn I realized on thing. Tanks are MASSIVE, literally. I knew tanks were very big, but you cant get the actual scale of a tank without being there in person, next to one. 

Also I am rehauling the armour section with the new pics I took. 

20.09.2020, 20:12: Finished the overhaul.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by GuyCBRN
added the yellow ARMOX 500T Steel panel to first ms paint pic.

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

The Patria AMV with the Cockerill CT-CV 105 turret should go in the Benelux tech tree if ever implemented as it was a Finnish-Belgian joint project. I can understand some wanting to see it in the Swedish tech tree but I believe there are other notable Finnish vehicles worth giving to Sweden.

[финский 1,710]

7 hours ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

The Patria AMV with the Cockerill CT-CV 105 turret should go in the Benelux tech tree if ever implemented as it was a Finnish-Belgian joint project. I can understand some wanting to see it in the Swedish tech tree but I believe there are other notable Finnish vehicles worth giving to Sweden.

Belgium had nothing to do with this project. The private belgian company supplied Patria with the turret after the Finnish government bought it.

[Milocat 4,850]

+1 for Swedish (Scandinavian) tree.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

5 hours ago, ProPatriaFinland said:

Belgium had nothing to do with this project. The private belgian company supplied Patria with the turret after the Finnish government bought it.

And Sweden had absolutely nothing to do with this vehicle at all, how do you justify putting it in the Swedish tech tree (don't tell me just because it's Finnish)? Cockerill supplied the turret and was allowed to market the vehicle, I don't believe that's fair to the Belgians. The T-72 FINMOD would make a better Swedish addition than this in my opinion.

[финский 1,710]

11 minutes ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

And Sweden had absolutely nothing to do with this vehicle at all, how do you justify putting it in the Swedish tech tree (don't tell me just because it's Finnish)? Cockerill supplied the turret and was allowed to market the vehicle, I don't believe that's fair to the Belgians. The T-72 FINMOD would make a better Swedish addition than this in my opinion.

Well, Sweden for one actually operates the Patria AMV Gen 1 chassis.

But dont you think Gaijin would have added the Mörkö-Morane to either French or Russian tree instead of Swedish tree? Since it has Berezin-UB(incorrect armament) and is based on a French fighter.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

1 hour ago, ProPatriaFinland said:

Well, Sweden for one actually operates the Patria AMV Gen 1 chassis.

But dont you think Gaijin would have added the Mörkö-Morane to either French or Russian tree instead of Swedish tree? Since it has Berezin-UB(incorrect armament) and is based on a French fighter.

Those vehicles you mention below were actually operated by Finland in full capacity and weren't just prototypes. The Patria AMV with the Cockerill CT-CV turret was a joint development between Patria and Cockerill, it was not solely developed by Finland. Just because Sweden happened to use some Patrias of their own doesn't mean this particular version of the vehicle should go in the Swedish tech tree. 

[финский 1,710]

9 minutes ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

Those vehicles you mention below were actually operated by Finland in full capacity and weren't just prototypes. The Patria AMV with the Cockerill CT-CV turret was a joint development between Patria and Cockerill, it was not solely developed by Finland. Just because Sweden happened to use some Patrias of their own doesn't mean this particular version of the vehicle should go in the Swedish tech tree. 

Finnish tree would be the best, Sweden the second best. The vehicle still isnt a co development between Patria and Cokerill, just like the Pyörremyrsky wasnt a co development between Finland and Germany. Belgium never considered getting Patria AMV, and Cokerill is a private company. Not state owned like Patria.

Majority of Cokerill is owned by a company from Luxembourg.

Finnish government just bought the turret from Cokerill, nothing more, unless you can provide a reliable source saying otherwise. Just as how Patria AMV with BMP-3 turret isnt a joint venture by Finnish and Russian governments.

btw, the Mörkö-Morane ingame is just a prototype.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

17 minutes ago, ProPatriaFinland said:

Finnish tree would be the best, Sweden the second best. The vehicle still isnt a co development between Patria and Cokerill, just like the Pyörremyrsky wasnt a co development between Finland and Germany. Belgium never considered getting Patria AMV, and Cokerill is a private company. Not state owned like Patria.

Majority of Cokerill is owned by a company from Luxembourg.

Finnish government just bought the turret from Cokerill, nothing more, unless you can provide a reliable source saying otherwise. Just as how Patria AMV with BMP-3 turret isnt a joint venture by Finnish and Russian governments.

btw, the Mörkö-Morane ingame is just a prototype.

It doesn't have to be Belgian owned for it to qualify as Benelux, a Belgian company made the vehicle in development with Patria I'd call it a joint venture. Your response by saying that Cockerill is owned by a large share from Luxembourg, another Benelux country only reinforces my argument. You still haven't explained how Sweden fits into the picture, just because Sweden and Finland have a historical military relationship doesn't cut it. Sweden doesn't use or have any intention of operating the Patria with the Cockerill turret themselves so that rules out Sweden. It's very clear we disagree on the matter and I won't inquire further. 

[финский 1,710]

24 minutes ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

It doesn't have to be Belgian owned for it to qualify as Benelux, a Belgian company made the vehicle in development with Patria I'd call it a joint venture. Your response by saying that Cockerill is owned by a large share from Luxembourg, another Benelux country only reinforces my argument. You still haven't explained how Sweden fits into the picture, just because Sweden and Finland have a historical military relationship doesn't cut it. Sweden doesn't use or have any intention of operating the Patria with the Cockerill turret themselves so that rules out Sweden. It's very clear we disagree on the matter and I won't inquire further. 

Neither does any benelux country intend to even use the Patria AMV chassis. it does not belong there. 

Just because it uses a turret made by a private belgian company, does not mean its a co development, you have failed to prove otherwise.

Going by your logic, the Karel Doorman class frigate is a Netherlands, US, British and Italian co developed Frigate and should be in one of those 3 present ingame national trees. Or SO.8000 Narval is a co development between Germany and France or the BT-42, a co development between Finland, Germany, Russia and Britain, in middle of ww2.

Also, Patria AMV uses Swedish engines, so if anything it should be in Swedish tree, Its the only tree present ingame that has any connection to the vehicle.

 

+ to define "joint venture" which is equivalent to cooperative development, "an arrangement between two or more companies to work together on a particular project", you have yet to prove that there was any arrangement or compareable agreement between

Patria (Finnish Government) and Cokerill.

Edited September 16, 2020 by ProPatriaFinland

[eleks12 1,079]

+1

[___JL 157]

This should be in the Swedish tech tree

[SaabGripen 642]

There should be at least one high-rank wheeled vehicle. I want this.

[BadOpinionHaver 2,092]

+1, would be fun!