armament options Spitfire Armament Preset

[LeABH 45]

 

Introduction

 

C Type Wing
 

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Called “universal wing”, this wing was structurally modified to reduce labour and manufacturing time and allow mixed armament options; A  or B type armament or a new, yet heavier combination of four 20 mm Hispano cannon.

The undercarriage mountings were redesigned and the undercarriage doors were bowed in cross section allowing the legs to sit lower in the wells, eliminating the upper-wing blisters over the wheel wells and landing gear pivot points.

The revised, strengthened undercarriage legs were raked 2 inches (5.08 cm) further forward, making the Spitfire more stable on the ground and reducing the likelihood of the aircraft tipping onto its nose.

The Hispano Mk II cannon fitted in all cases were now belt-fed from box magazines (the Chattellerault system) allowing to double the ammunition supply to 120 rounds per gun. The fairings over the Hispano barrels were shorter and there was usually a short rubber stub covering the outer cannon port when not in use.

 

Comparison of armament layout Type A ( Middle ), Type B ( Top ) and C ( Bottom ) wings on the Spitfire Mk V


Spitfire Mk Vc with Type B armament setup at FHC
 

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The redesigned upper wing gun bay doors incorporated blisters to clear the cannon belt feed motors. Initially a single wide blister was incorporated that covered both motors. Initial production Spitfires Mk. Vc, such as those which were transported to Malta were factory-fitted with four cannon. In field conditions, it was often sufficient with two cannon armament and many of the four-cannon Spitfires were converted to fly with either outboard or inboard pair of Hispanos, or else converted to B-standard armament. Later on, production aircraft carried the two 20mm Hispanos and four Brownings. In such circumstances, the very large blister on top of the wing was not required and a new, more streamlined cannon breech cover was provided, with narrow blister fairing over the inboard cannon position and flat surface over the second, unused cannon bay.

The inner machine gun bays in C wing were moved outboard to between ribs 13 and 14. Also, the lower surface of the wing no longer had the gun-bay heating vents outboard of the gun bays and the retractable landing lights were no longer fitted.
 

The wing structure was stressed for provision of hardpoints outboard of the wheel wells capable of taking a 250 lb (113 kg) bomb under each wing.

Apart from early Spitfires Mk. IX converted from Mk. Vc airframes, the undercarriage indicator pins were not used on this or any of the later Spitfire marks.

 

Even though Spitfire Mk. Vc has 4 Hispano Mk. IIs as its armament in game

 

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Most Spitfire Mk. Vc fighters had the B version armament with the outer cannon positions being covered, but the C wing carried 120 rounds for each cannon versus only 60 for each cannon on the B wing. The universal wing also used a strengthened landing gear that had been moved two inched forward to correct the Spitfire's tendency to nose over on its propeller. In addition, the Spitfire Mk. Vb and Mk. Vc could carry two 250-pound bombs or one 500-pound bomb.

 

Not to mention both Spitfire Mk. IXc and Mk. XIVc has an option to carry different armament preset as showed on the structural drawing below


Structural Drawing of the Spitfire Mk. XIVc Wing

Although both Type B and Type C with Type B preset might look similar in terms of appearance, it look different structurally as seen with Type B wing structural drawing below


Structural Drawing of the Type B Wing


Structural Drawing of the Type C Cannon Bay


Spitfire Mk. Vc (C-wing) cannon bay
 

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The majority of Mk IXs of all types used the standard “c” wing, which could carry four 20mm cannon or two 20mm cannon and four .303in machine guns. From 1944 some were built with the “e” wing, which replaced the four .303in machine guns with two .50in heavy machine guns.

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The Mk XIV was the most important of the Griffon powered Spitfires, and the only one to see significant wartime service. It used the two-speed two-stage supercharged Griffon 61 or 65, giving 2,050 hp and a significantly improved performance at higher altitudes when compared to the earlier Griffon powered Mk XII. The Mk XIV was based on the Mk VIII fuselage, already strengthened to cope with the Merlin 61 engine. Early models used the “c” type universal wing (four 20mm cannon or two 20mm cannon and four .303in machine guns), while later production used the “e” wing (two .50in machine guns instead of the .303s).

As Quoted below, Some Spitfire with Type C are mounted  with Type E Armament Setting ( 2 x .50 cals M2 Browning + 2 x 20mm Hispano )
 

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An interesting curiosity is that several C-wing Spitfires LF Mk. IX of No. 485 (New Zealand) Squadron were converted to carry the Hispanos and .50 Brownings just before D-Day.

 

 

 

E Type Wing

This is a further modification of Type C / Universal wings that wasnt too different from the former Type C wing
 

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The “e” wing was a further development of the Universal. It could carry either four 20mm cannon or two 20mm cannon and two 0.5in Browning machine guns. This time the cannon took the outer position and the machine guns the inner. This was partly because it gave more room for machine gun ammunition and partly because the bombs were carried below the inner gun positions, and there had been some problems reported when both cannon and bombs were on the same part of the wing. The “e” wing appeared in the second half of 1944.

 

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The .303 machine guns mounted in the outer wings were no longer fitted, because rifle calibre bullets were ineffective against heavily armoured aircraft. (These outer guns had always been the less effective part of a Spitfire's armament: their distance from the centreline made them hard to harmonise and in turning engagements, wing flexing meant that the rounds were even more widely scattered).

 

This diagram shows the layout of cannon and .5″ M2 Browning installation in the Type E Wing
 

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The cannon in the E wing was slightly relocated, positioned further to the rear in its bay. Consequently, the protruding portion of the barrel was shorter and almost entirely enclosed by a new cigar-shaped fairing. Also, the overwing blister was more narrow and a little deeper than the corresponding feature of the C wing.

 

 

Performance

Performance Loss between Spitfire A and B setup

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4. ..... Centre of Gravity

.......4.1 The centre of gravity with the above loads measured parallel to the datum line and relative to the datum point (See Fig.1) are: Load 1. 4.4" aft and Load 2. 4.8" aft.

........4.2 The centre of gravity range due to dissipation of load is 4.0" aft to 4.8" aft, Load 2. being on the aft limit. The forward limit is obtained from Load 1. by the expenditure of Browning and Hispano gun ammunition and the consumption of fuel but leaving a supply sufficient for 1.2 hour's running of the engines at maximum power permissible at ground level.

........4.3 A further forward centre of gravity of 1.9" aft may be obtained when the aeroplane is in a light loaded condition of "TARE" weight plus a light pilot of 170 lb. and fuel reduced as in para. 4.2.

........4.4 The moment effect due to undercarriage retraction is 3150 in/lb. and moves the C.G. aft 0.4" at full load.

 

Im sorry that i couldnt find any source that include performance loss between setup, but i believe it should be similar as the F Mk IX to F Mk IXc, since there is no exact difference between gun apart from maybe different ammo count

Ingame F IX to F IXc performance loss (2 Hispano Mk. II + 4 .303 Browning to 4 Hispano Mk. II)
-7 km/h top speed ( stock : 609 to 602, full upgraded : 650 to 642)
-0,1s turn time (only when stock, its the exact same when full upgraded)
-0.5m/s of climbrate ( stock : 15.8 to 15.3, full upgraded : 19.5 to 18.9 )

Also adding the Type E variant, since some of the latest Spitfire with Type C Variant are refitted with E armament layout ( 2 x 20mm Hispano + 2 x .50 cals M2 Browning ) as listed above with the 485 (NZ) Squadron,The performance difference shouldnt be too different from ingame LF Mk IXc to LF IXe, which has the same performance without loss while having a "better" armament setting.

 

Please note that all of the performance data mentioned above are Air Realistic Battles performance of those aircraft, might be different on other modes

 

 

Why add More Spitfire Armament Preset?

With Bf 109s ( G and K Variant ) got their hand on more armament preset, like having able to swap their nose mounted cannon with different cannon, also i want to point out that they also got their hand on additional gunpod as their option on playing and able to change the plane as they like, i see no reason why the Spitfires Type C ( and Maybe Type E ) Variants cant have those feature too

 

 

More Additional Infos and Pictures

 

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Edited Modification Page of the Mk. XIVc

 

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Edited Spitfire Mk. XIVc using 4 Hispanos Setup

 

 

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Edited Spitfire F Mk. IXc using Type B / 4 Browning .303 and 2 Hispanos setup

 

 

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Edited Spitfire F Mk. XIVc using Type E / 2 M2 Browning .50 and 2 Hispanos setup

Note : those spesification and performance data are not true and mostly just cropped from another Spitfire spec in Mk.XIVc was Mk. XIVc with 500lb load out and Mk. IXc cropped from Spitfire F Mk. IX (Tech Tree) Spec Data

 

 

In game Spitfires that should get this feature

Spitfire with Type C ( Universal ) wing that currently ingame :
- Spitfire Mk Vc/trop ( Rank III / Tech Tree )
- Spitfire Mk Vc ( Rank III / Tech Tree )
- Spitfire F Mk IXc ( Rank III / Premium )
- Spitfire Mk IXc ( USSR ) ( Rank IV / Premium )
- Spitfire LF Mk IXc ( USA ) ( Rank IV / Premium )
- John Plagis's Spitfire LF Mk IXc ( Rank IV / Premium )
- Spitfire F Mk XIVc ( Rank IV / Premium )

Spitfire with Type E wing that currently ingame :
- Spitfire F Mk XVI ( Rank IV / Tech Tree )
- Spitfire F Mk XIVe ( Rank IV / Tech Tree )
- Prendergast's Spitfire FR Mk XIVe ( Rank IV / Premium )
- Spitfire F Mk XVIIIe ( Rank IV / Tech Tree )

 

 

Source :

• http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html/2
• https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196284/supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc/
• http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkXIV.html
• http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkIX.html
• http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_wings.html
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_(late_Merlin-powered_variants)
• https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/heritage/vickers-supermarine-spitfire
• http://www.spitfireperformance.com/
• http://www.spitfireperformance.com/ab197.html
• Flying Heritage Collection Skyfair 2014
• Gaijin Entertainment

Edited August 21, 2021 by ABH15

[ItssLuBu 1,798]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[kingoftigertank 73]

does make sense although i do believe there's more types of wing variants that are used on the spitfire

[LeABH 45]

3 hours ago, kingoftigertank said:

does make sense although i do believe there's more types of wing variants that are used on the spitfire

Yep! there was more wing variants in spitfire, There was 5 to be exact

- Type A : the original wing design which brought 8 Browning .303

- Type B : Changing 4 of those browning with 2 Hispanos, so it brought 4 Browning .303 and 2 Hispanos

- Type C is listed above

- Type D : Photo Recon wing variant instead of gun it bring more fuel

- Type E : Further modification of the Type C variant which switch to 2 M2 Browning .50 cals instead of 4 Browning .303

 

Although there was a document / article that saying Type E wing can also bring 4 Hispano, but i couldnt find more sources that said (or atleast show any picture) there was any Type E spitfire using 4 Hispanos

 

Sources :

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_wings.html

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by ABH15

[Solarmod 1,203]

Good concept, but I'm not sure if every single Spitfire should have access to it, like the Italian one. +1 from me though.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Solarmod
Removed pointless statement

[LeABH 45]

1 hour ago, Solarmod said:

Good concept, but I'm not sure if every single Spitfire should have access to it, like the Italian one. +1 from me though.

Thanks for the support! Yep not every single spitfire are able to change armament setup, only Spitfire with Type C (Mk. Vc, Mk. IXc, etc.) and Type E (Mk. XIVe, Mk. XVIIe, etc.) wing that able to change their armament. Although i didnt find more source that include Type E armament change/setup in it, since almost all Type E variant spitfire use 2 x .50 cals and 2 x Hispano. About overseas spitfire, there are two country that has Type C Spitfire, US and USSR with their respective Spitfire LF Mk. IXc but i dont find enough sources / information are those Spitfire able to change their armament or not.

Edited July 20, 2021 by ABH15

[Solarmod 1,203]

4 hours ago, ABH15 said:

Thanks for the support! Yep not every single spitfire are able to change armament setup, only Spitfire with Type C (Mk. Vc, Mk. IXc, etc.) and Type E (Mk. XIVe, Mk. XVIIe, etc.) wing that able to change their armament. Although i didnt find more source that include Type E armament change/setup in it, since almost all Type E variant spitfire use 2 x .50 cals and 2 x Hispano. About overseas spitfire, there are two country that has Type C Spitfire, US and USSR with their respective Spitfire LF Mk. IXc but i dont find enough sources / information are those Spitfire able to change their armament or not.

Makes sense to me. Considering how many Spitfires the US and USSR got though, I wouldn't be surprised. That being said, the Spitfire that I found from an ace was only ever armed with one armament, would that mean they could've changed the wings out? Or was it a one and done deal?

[LeABH 45]

14 hours ago, Solarmod said:

Makes sense to me. Considering how many Spitfires the US and USSR got though, I wouldn't be surprised. That being said, the Spitfire that I found from an ace was only ever armed with one armament, would that mean they could've changed the wings out? Or was it a one and done deal?

May I know which ace it was? I can try to find some sources and info about it

[Solarmod 1,203]

2 hours ago, ABH15 said:

May I know which ace it was? I can try to find some sources and info about it

Virgil C. Fields, USAAF

[LeABH 45]

 

5 hours ago, Solarmod said:

Virgil C. Fields, USAAF

As I search some document, yes, Capt. Virgil C. Fields was using Spitfire with Type C wings it was Spitfire Mk. Vc Trop. to be exact. As showed below

 

Capt. Virgil C. Fields in his Spitfire

Capt. Virgil C. Fields Spitfire Crash Landing

 

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Most Spitfire Mk. Vc fighters had the B version armament with the outer cannon positions being covered, but the C wing carried 120 rounds for each cannon versus only 60 for each cannon on the B wing. The universal wing also used a strengthened landing gear that had been moved two inched forward to correct the Spitfire's tendency to nose over on its propeller. In addition, the Spitfire Mk. Vb and Mk. Vc could carry two 250-pound bombs or one 500-pound bomb.

 

 As Quoted and According to pictures above Capt. Virgil C. Fields recieved a Spitfire Mk. Vc with Type B setup ( 2 Hispano Mk. II + 4 Browning .303 ) but ditch the 4 Browning .303 in favor of lighter and more maneuverable Spitfire, in fact he's not the only one that do this, some other USAAF Spitfire had their Browning .303 removed (sometimes one on each wing, sometimes all of it) as quoted below.

 

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Some of the American pilots removed one machine gun from each wing to lessen weight and thereby improve maneuverability.

 

Sources :

• http://aircrewremembered.com/fields-virgil-cephus.html?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_6be35bdafcb6f8a539f79ce738686ba53e0f19f3-1626897222-0-gqNtZGzNAiKjcnBszQO6
• https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/spitfire/maj-virgil-c-fields-jr-commander-of-the-307th-fs-31st-fg-1944/
• https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196284/supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc/

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by ABH15

[LeABH 45]

Edited to include Type E wing variant

[Suizu_Aika 59]

yeah I think this is great idea add to Spitfire
+1 for me

[Solarmod 1,203]

On 21/07/2021 at 15:30, ABH15 said:

 As Quoted and According to pictures above Capt. Virgil C. Fields recieved a Spitfire Mk. Vc with Type B setup ( 2 Hispano Mk. II + 4 Browning .303 ) but ditch the 4 Browning .303 in favor of lighter and more maneuverable Spitfire, in fact he's not the only one that do this, some other USAAF Spitfire had their Browning .303 removed (sometimes one on each wing, sometimes all of it) as quoted below.

Thanks! I had made a suggestion for this spitfire, but could not determine whether or not he had ditched the Brownings, I will update my suggestion accordingly. 

[LeABH 45]

On 09/08/2021 at 04:27, Solarmod said:

Thanks! I had made a suggestion for this spitfire, but could not determine whether or not he had ditched the Brownings, I will update my suggestion accordingly. 

No Problem! Always happy to help, also if you need more information about the plane that Capt. Virgil C. Fields used, there is a surviving USAAF Spitfire Mk. Vc/trop that currently on display on National Museum of United States Airforce, near Dayton Ohio. Serial Number MA823 i include some picture (you might want to add this to your suggestion), the plane that on display is the exact same model of the one that Capt. Virgil used, it even have the same armament preset as shown on picture below




Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vc in the World War II Gallery at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

As you can see Capt. Virgil was not the only one to remove two or all browning from the plane this is apparent from the closed holes that usually appear if there is a browning .303 on the wings. This shows how much versatile and flexible the universal wing / Type C wings are, it can be set up between pilot and their difference in tactic. Also there is every setup combination possible on this wing from the lightest being this 2 Hispano 20mm cannon set up and up to the heaviest with 4 Hispano 20mm and 4 Browning .303

Sources : 

• https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196284/supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc/

Edited August 12, 2021 by ABH15

[Solarmod 1,203]

13 hours ago, ABH15 said:

No Problem! Always happy to help, also if you need more information about the plane that Capt. Virgil C. Fields used, there is a surviving USAAF Spitfire Mk. Vc/trop that currently on display on National Museum of United States Airforce, near Dayton Ohio. Serial Number MA823 i include some picture (you might want to add this to your suggestion), the plane that on display is the exact same model of the one that Capt. Virgil used, it even have the same armament preset as shown on picture below




Supermarine Spitfire Mk.Vc in the World War II Gallery at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

As you can see Capt. Virgil was not the only one to remove two or all browning from the plane this is apparent from the closed holes that usually appear if there is a browning .303 on the wings. This shows how much versatile and flexible the universal wing / Type C wings are, it can be set up between pilot and their difference in tactic. Apparently there is every combination of setup on this wing from the lightest being this 2 Hispano 20mm cannon set up and up to the heaviest with 4 Hispano 20mm and 4 Browning .303

Sources : 

• https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196284/supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc/

Many thanks!

[Ub3rshadow 874]

Another curiosity I noticed looking at pilot's notes for the Mk IX is that the E wing could carry two 250lb bombs on the wings and a single 500lb bomb under the fuselage, which is reflected in the Griffon Spitfires but not any others. So, for example, the LF Mk IX should be able to carry up to 2 250lb bombs and 1 500lb bomb, though I'll need to double-check if there's weight limitations that prevent the two from being used together. I can't remember if RP rockets could also be mounted on the Mk IX, though. If incendiary bombs ever get added (which I doubt), the spitfire could carry various US incendiary bombs, too, ranging from I think 60lb bombs to 500lb bombs, which had gel filler. (Would be pretty cool if Gaijin gave all E wing spitfires the bomb that scatters 60 propaganda leaflets that it can carry in the pilot's notes, April fools maybe?)

Would be pretty cool to see the Spitfire LF Mk IX be useful in GRB for CAS, as an alternative to the Griffon if you want more manoeuvrability and climb.

[MotorCraftGT@live 6]

I would love to have a Rank III fighter with all 303.

[LeABH 45]

2 hours ago, Ub3rshadow said:

Another curiosity I noticed looking at pilot's notes for the Mk IX is that the E wing could carry two 250lb bombs on the wings and a single 500lb bomb under the fuselage, which is reflected in the Griffon Spitfires but not any others. So, for example, the LF Mk IX should be able to carry up to 2 250lb bombs and 1 500lb bomb, though I'll need to double-check if there's weight limitations that prevent the two from being used together. I can't remember if RP rockets could also be mounted on the Mk IX, though. If incendiary bombs ever get added (which I doubt), the spitfire could carry various US incendiary bombs, too, ranging from I think 60lb bombs to 500lb bombs, which had gel filler. (Would be pretty cool if Gaijin gave all E wing spitfires the bomb that scatters 60 propaganda leaflets that it can carry in the pilot's notes, April fools maybe?)

Would be pretty cool to see the Spitfire LF Mk IX be useful in GRB for CAS, as an alternative to the Griffon if you want more manoeuvrability and climb.

 

Yep, There is an option to bring two 250lb and a single 500lb and no i dont think its because weight limitation, i think it due to different styles, the mission, and maneuverability that they have i mean they could bring 4 Hispano + 4 Browning .303 if they want to, but it would take away their maneuverability of the aircraft and this setup / preset was rarely used. Also funny that you mention about the propaganda leaflet spitfire, Gaijin or War Thunder has been mentioning this in one of the shooting range episode.

Bruce saying Kawaii is blursed. Now that you mentioning the leaflet Spitfire, why not also add the Modification XXX to the Spitfire.
 

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In the lighter moments of World War II, the Spitfire was used in an unorthodox role: bringing beer kegs to the men in Normandy.

During the war, the Heneger and Constable brewery donated free beer to the troops. After D-Day, supplying the invasion troops in Normandy with vital supplies was already a challenge. Obviously, there was no room in the logistics chain for such luxuries as beer or other types of refreshments. Some men, often called “sourcers”, were able to get wine or other niceties “from the land” or rather from the locals. RAF Spitfire pilots came up with an even better idea.

The Spitfire Mk IX was an evolved version of the Spitfire, with pylons under the wings for bombs or tanks. It was discovered that the bomb pylons could also be modified to carry beer kegs. According to pictures that can be found, various sizes of kegs were used. Whether the kegs could be jettisoned in case of emergency is unknown. If the Spitfire flew high enough, the cold air at altitude would even refresh the beer, making it ready for consumption upon arrival.

A variation of this was a long range fuel tank modified to carry beer instead of fuel. The modification even received the official designation Mod. XXX. Propaganda services were quick to pick up on this, which probably explains the “official” designation.

 

Modification . XXX Spitfire

 

Modification. XXX being refilled

In that Shooting Range video, they also mentions the Messer-spit, which is a German Captured Spitfire Mk. Vb that have Daimler Benz DB605 and German guns on it, since that plane was already suggested before you can check it out yourself.

 

Sources :

• http://spitfiresite.com/2012/01/modification-xxx-beer-carrying-spitfires.html