Clearly this is a balanced game with no matchmaking issues whatsoever

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

Welcome to War Matchmaking thunder . Where the games are comepletely balanced 

 

 

[N4CR_ 537]

Oh yeah the old 'can't balance something as people join like free-to-play combined arms games from 2003' eh?

 

My favourite is when it puts 4-5 level 100s (2-4 in a squad) against a team of level 10-50s with some casual console players in a squad.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

3 minutes ago, N4CR_ said:

Oh yeah the old 'can't balance something as people join like free-to-play combined arms games from 2003' eh?

 

My favourite is when it puts 4-5 level 100s (2-4 in a squad) against a team of level 10-50s with some casual console players in a squad.

oh the unbalanced 4 player squad games . Nothing like loading up a 3.0 lineup and see a 4 player 4.0 tryhard squad on the other side . 

solo player levels don't mean as much when 8/10 games I play I am uptiered

[N4CR_ 537]

21 minutes ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

oh the unbalanced 4 player squad games . Nothing like loading up a 3.0 lineup and see a 4 player 4.0 tryhard squad on the other side . 

solo player levels don't mean as much when 8/10 games I play I am uptiered

Very good point re: solo levels not being as much of an issue usually, unless it puts them all on one team, which does happen. 

The seal clubbing can get pretty crazy especially on weekends around BattlePass challenges. That said, with the crapfest that is over BR5, I don't blame them wanting to have fun and not go bankrupt at lower ranks. 

[NicoBlacKnight 1]

After 23k games you still have problems with uptier !

Come on everyone gets uptier ...

you know that you also have the right to play with friend at low br, it's not against the rules so ...

About your arcade game screenshot tho i won't say anyhting i play moslty rb so ... good luck i guess ^^

[N4CR_ 537]

40 minutes ago, NicoBlacKnight said:

After 23k games you still have problems with uptier !

Come on everyone gets uptier ...

you know that you also have the right to play with friend at low br, it's not against the rules so ...

About your arcade game screenshot tho i won't say anyhting i play moslty rb so ... good luck i guess ^^

It's basically the same damn points table as RB, look at the numbers of players, it's nothing to do with uptier. 

 

There is no explainable or reasonable way the matchmaker can make the game even by adding +3 people to one team. Similar (actually, more complex combined arms) games from 20 years ago had already solved this stuff - Renegade-X for example. Even the fan made (for free) version today, 64 player battles on old Unreal 3 engine with infantry, aircraft and tanks and similar sized maps to many of WT.

It auto boots a random player to the other team before match starts, OR you can opt to vote via F6/F7 to change teams manually prior if you wish. Even adding late joiners, it has no excuse to make the teams that unbalanced. This reeks of poor/sloppy coding and lack of attention to this long-standing issue. It's been in the game for the entire ~11 months I've played now. 

As the matches in Ren-X go longer (intense 1-2 hour stalemates or back and forth front lines etc), balancing during the game can again be done via voluntary team vote, OR admin/script can force it (thinking long games - SIM/Assault/etc in WT). 

 

The current MM doesn't care for countries in most modes, so this isn't much of an issue anymore for WT (team swapping). 

Edited November 18, 2021 by N4CR_

[Gilibran 226]

On 18/11/2021 at 04:47, N4CR_ said:

It's basically the same damn points table as RB, look at the numbers of players, it's nothing to do with uptier. 

 

There is no explainable or reasonable way the matchmaker can make the game even by adding +3 people to one team. Similar (actually, more complex combined arms) games from 20 years ago had already solved this stuff - Renegade-X for example. Even the fan made (for free) version today, 64 player battles on old Unreal 3 engine with infantry, aircraft and tanks and similar sized maps to many of WT.

It auto boots a random player to the other team before match starts, OR you can opt to vote via F6/F7 to change teams manually prior if you wish. Even adding late joiners, it has no excuse to make the teams that unbalanced. This reeks of poor/sloppy coding and lack of attention to this long-standing issue. It's been in the game for the entire ~11 months I've played now. 

As the matches in Ren-X go longer (intense 1-2 hour stalemates or back and forth front lines etc), balancing during the game can again be done via voluntary team vote, OR admin/script can force it (thinking long games - SIM/Assault/etc in WT). 

 

The current MM doesn't care for countries in most modes, so this isn't much of an issue anymore for WT (team swapping). 

I have to agree, making a balanced matchmaker is not top of the line programming any decent dev team should have a problem with. They have all the info they need from the available playerbase from the vehicles in their lineup to level and matches played to distribute them evenly over 2 teams, it's just a matter of making the right choices.

4 man squad then another 4 men squad or two 2 man squads on the other if available, if no other squad then atleast 4 players with equal level of those in the squad or downtier two players and fill out the rest.

If player has 1 tank team A if second player has 1 tank team B if third player has 1 tank Team A etc. etc.

 

At the moment the matchmaker cant even do that, look at line up and distribute players evenly over two teams. usually the ones with just 1 vehcile end up in one team. Which makes you question if they really dont know how to program a matchmaker and it's exactly programmed as intended meaning they do know howto, but just dont want to.

 

[ApodyktycznyCham 1,026]

On 18.11.2021 at 04:47, N4CR_ said:

Obecny MM nie dba o kraje w większości trybów, więc nie stanowi to już większego problemu dla WT (wymiana drużyn). 

 

And here you are wrong. They still officially deny that the "match" mechanics work, however it is calculated from "average relative position in the team".

Based on this, players have a personal assessment, it is also influenced by what you play, newly bought vehicles have a preferential MM. After a few weaker games, the game will finally give you such a weak opponent that you can kill something. It doesn't matter what planes or tanks you will meet in front of you. This is wrong reasoning. It all comes down to how strong your opponent's skill will be, because even a very weak machine in the hands of a very experienced player can be very dangerous.

[N4CR_ 537]

11 hours ago, Gilibran said:

I have to agree, making a balanced matchmaker is not top of the line programming any decent dev team should have a problem with. They have all the info they need from the available playerbase from the vehicles in their lineup to level and matches played to distribute them evenly over 2 teams, it's just a matter of making the right choices.

4 man squad then another 4 men squad or two 2 man squads on the other if available, if no other squad then atleast 4 players with equal level of those in the squad or downtier two players and fill out the rest.

If player has 1 tank team A if second player has 1 tank team B if third player has 1 tank Team A etc. etc.

 

At the moment the matchmaker cant even do that, look at line up and distribute players evenly over two teams. usually the ones with just 1 vehcile end up in one team. Which makes you question if they really dont know how to program a matchmaker and it's exactly programmed as intended meaning they do know howto, but just dont want to.

 

The only way it makes sense is if it wants to make teams at least always moderately unbalanced, so players are frustrated and think spending more $ will help.

Gasp, you get downteired for ages in a premium until you reach a specific score (the solution!). I'm still testing/finding out what metric(s) it is, but in a Hitlerbolt while playing conservatively as an air AB beginner (few kills and not heaps of deaths either), it's STILL being downteired to 3.3 in the BR by the 'to battle' button. Most people say it's 10-20 matches but I clearly have shown this is not the case, it is another stat (kills/efficiency/whatever) that determines it. I have nearly 50 battles and it's still pushing me to 3.3.

The only stat I can see that makes sense is that my kills per match is below 1. So maybe doing this is how you can use a premium to downtier your lineup indefinitely.. 

 

Where this is going is, if they have this fine-grained control over Premium downtiering, then MM surely can control a match where it adds 3 extra players. 

 

11 hours ago, ApodyktycznyCham said:

 

And here you are wrong. They still officially deny that the "match" mechanics work, however it is calculated from "average relative position in the team".

Based on this, players have a personal assessment, it is also influenced by what you play, newly bought vehicles have a preferential MM. After a few weaker games, the game will finally give you such a weak opponent that you can kill something. It doesn't matter what planes or tanks you will meet in front of you. This is wrong reasoning. It all comes down to how strong your opponent's skill will be, because even a very weak machine in the hands of a very experienced player can be very dangerous.

When you have matches where your team absolutely dominates, or the other way around, go and look at the player cards.

What I typically find is when it's a steamroll, the MM has put a majority of high level players on one team. Or most consoles on one team (we all know how that goes). 

So I don't feel that the skill is taken into account at all. Typically better players are higher level, you do get some at 20-70 that can be still very good, or on some maps or scenarios but not all, you simply need to play a long time for that experience. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by N4CR_

[anyuser 5,136]

They talk about more genereous MM for a new plane.

You talk about downtirering mechanic.

 

Reducing the BR of a plane is something that is only up to you.

Rule: 2nd highest BR of your deck is at last 1 BR stepp lower, 3rd and all following ones are 2 BR stepps lower = the BR of your whole lineup is reduced by one stepp (1st plane with the highest BR -1 BR stepp).

If your build your lineup right it will be always the case.

Be aware, if the BR range betwee 1st and 2nd and 3rd is to big, there won't be any downtier (stupid enough there will if just one plane is in your lineup though).

 

They talk about MM in general, where the MM takes 32 players and builds the team out of those players.

There are several rules

1. you can meet enemies from -1 BR to +1 BR compared to lineup BR.

2. the BRs spread of the match (max BR or downtired lineup BR of the players) is 1.0 BRs.

3. max 4 players of each team can be top tier (max BR of the match).

 

Some people feel, that the MM for new bought planes is more genereous with you being a top dog more often.

Can't say that I feel the same.

[ApodyktycznyCham 1,026]

But I have brought it up many times. In the old TSS system, when you signed up for a tournament, there was a number next to your nickname, such as 764.22. We have asked many times what is this counter, what is it for? The replies were that it was irrelevant. After some time we came to the conclusion that this number directly related to "average relative position in the team". Me and a few people who did not want to believe that it did not matter, we started looking.

 

The work is arduous but:
If you pull this number out of a player's profile, you have 32 in battle.
In total, the sum of each side (16 per side) will be quite similar. ALWAYS

Why, when you have 70 people in line, you wait for the matches for a few minutes? Why, when there were 150 of them, I still waited a few minutes?

For a simple reason. MM needs to balance the teams. There are cases where 2-3 people are missing, someone has lost the connection, etc., when MM has already calculated the sum of both sides, matched where the players are to be and the battle starts and you 2-3 lose the connection during this time, it is too late if there are no available ones in the pool people with parameters similar to those.

 

You don't have to take my word for it. Pick a few random games from the replays server, check this number for all 32 players and calculate the sum of both sides. In any case, you will come across the same. It will always come out that by a strange coincidence, the pool of points of both teams is similar

 

everyone can verify for themselves

[LeChance 926]

I think it is about time they did away with the "averaging" of BR's for the line up's in Air Arcade games. Top BR = line up BR, like everything else in the game. Stop manipulation of the current system and level things out a bit. I can understand why they may have used this when they came out and were in Open Beta, but shortly after going to the old "5 Tier" system coming off the very old 20 tier system, things changed.

They have added a LOT more planes, tanks & naval since then, yet this antiquated averaging thing still persists. Same with the spawning system, outdated, barely functional when it was at it's best & has caused more issues and angst than even this MM'ing stuff(hard to believe, but...) Many, many things are very good here, they excel at a number of things and it is a good game . .. . nothing like it. But . . . . .
In their recent explanation of the severe server issues we had with the new BP & Update they made a statement using the term "good enough" . . . .  and I dunno what that is translated from or if that is the proper term for what they were trying to say . . .  it just seems that a good many things are just "good enough" and not pushed to a higher level of quality... Matchmaking and the spawning system have to be the top two in this regard. I am one of those that likes the "new shiny stuff" and am always on the lookout for a "deal" when it comes to premium vehicles and yeah, I'll play with them a bit when first acquired. I can't fault anyone else that does the same, the introduction of higher tier'd premiums ushered in the era of easy access to higher tiers almost immediate and regular overcrowding in those BR ranges with new stuff and all the side effects that came with it... even more mixed RB battles, waves of the same premiums in games . . . not that big of a deal really for the players, but for the MM'ing system . . . has to be taxing.
At any rate, there are a few things that need "attention" . . .  I'm not gonna start any "Fix the Game" stuff . . . . they fix stuff all the time and most players ignore it. But I could get behind a slight shift of focus on changing a few things from "good enough" to "Really Good" .  .. . .  MM'ing & spawning system on top of that list for me . .. .
But again . . . that's just me & my opinion . . . .

Good Luck

[_chaotic 140]

On 18/11/2021 at 01:28, FailBoatCaptain said:

Welcome to War Matchmaking thunder . Where the games are comepletely balanced 

 

 

I really can recommend you do try out Helicopter EC. Its really balanced and fun.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

8 hours ago, LeChance said:

I think it is about time they did away with the "averaging" of BR's for the line up's in Air Arcade games. Top BR = line up BR, like everything else in the game

This

[GenGrant 31]

As new play I honestly don’t understand the balance. I’ve been trying to lvl up but when I look at other on the opposite team their numbers are typically higher. I feel like most battles I don’t even have a chance. The matchmaking seems just as bad as the wargaming games. It’s quiet frustrating. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by GenGrant

[krise_madsen 441]

8 hours ago, GenGrant said:

As new play I honestly don’t understand the balance. I’ve been trying to lvl up but when I look at other on the opposite team their numbers are typically higher. I feel like most battles I don’t even have a chance. The matchmaking seems just as bad as the wargaming games. It’s quiet frustrating. 

 

Levels are not taken into account in the Matchmaker; the levels of other players in your battle is entirely random. Only Battle Rating is used to determine who you face in battle. So in Arcade, be sure that the aircraft in your lineup all have the same (or nearly the same) Battle Rating.

[GenGrant 31]

18 hours ago, krise_madsen said:

 

Levels are not taken into account in the Matchmaker; the levels of other players in your battle is entirely random. Only Battle Rating is used to determine who you face in battle. So in Arcade, be sure that the aircraft in your lineup all have the same (or nearly the same) Battle Rating.

So I mispoke with regards to Levels. I was referring to BR. 
 

 

So I’ve got experience with online war games. I’ve played WoT and WoWs exclusively. Those games have become toxic and quite unbalanced. So I fired up my old account here and figured it give this game a try again. 
 

First thoughts back? Games are just as lopsided here as they are with the Wargaming Games. While I have a small sample size, I’ve played today with about 5 wins and 20ish losses. How could this game bring in new players when they are subjected  to this kind of abuse? 
 

The battle rating seems to be a joke from what I’m seeing. Granted this is from someone that doesn’t have anything above a T2 but when I’m rolling in a biplane against a T2 Spitfire it seems a little off..kind of like my wings or tails. 
 

I want to like this game. I really do but I feel like while I do well for the most part, either the teams are unbalanced or my fellow teammates don’t understand how to win games. 
 

After today’s abysmal performance  preventing me from actually getting better parts for my aircraft, it begs the question of “What is the point?” If my lowly T1 planes get waxed at this level does it really get better in terms of balance at say T5?

 

Someone convince me that this 20+ losing streak is a fluke and things get better.

 

FYI I play PC exclusively. And for what it is worth..if any here are my stats: https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/GenGrant

 

[N4CR_ 537]

I've had 18 losses in a row multiple times during event grinds, when I'm stuck on US server with the same group of players getting upteired, or else I have 300ms ping instead of 200ms..

 

So yes, it can happen. Play another mode or BR and do something else (or different server) is my advice. Or play another game.

When it's not fun, what is the point? Stats?

[krise_madsen 441]

6 hours ago, GenGrant said:

So I mispoke with regards to Levels. I was referring to BR. 
 

 

 

So I’ve got experience with online war games. I’ve played WoT and WoWs exclusively. Those games have become toxic and quite unbalanced. So I fired up my old account here and figured it give this game a try again. 
 

First thoughts back? Games are just as lopsided here as they are with the Wargaming Games. While I have a small sample size, I’ve played today with about 5 wins and 20ish losses. How could this game bring in new players when they are subjected  to this kind of abuse? 
 

The battle rating seems to be a joke from what I’m seeing. Granted this is from someone that doesn’t have anything above a T2 but when I’m rolling in a biplane against a T2 Spitfire it seems a little off..kind of like my wings or tails. 
 

I want to like this game. I really do but I feel like while I do well for the most part, either the teams are unbalanced or my fellow teammates don’t understand how to win games. 
 

After today’s abysmal performance  preventing me from actually getting better parts for my aircraft, it begs the question of “What is the point?” If my lowly T1 planes get waxed at this level does it really get better in terms of balance at say T5?

 

Someone convince me that this 20+ losing streak is a fluke and things get better.

 

FYI I play PC exclusively. And for what it is worth..if any here are my stats: https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/GenGrant

 

 

Winning or losing a battle is not something you can do that much about; you can try your best and hope your team mates does the same, but it's always a roll of the dice.

 

A better measure of your success is how you rank on your own team. And yes, that will get better with time as you gain more experience. I'm not a very good pilot, but I do have a good deal of experience, so all-in-all I do alright.

 

You are right that this game don't go easy on newbies. I'm an old xxxx now, and I don't have the skill-learning abilities (or the time) of younger players; I get wrecked in just about any game I play. But that meant I started playing this game fully expecting to get pommeled, and I did. So I didn't start playing with a "what do I have to do not to get wrecked?"-attitude, but rather "got powned again? Well, that's to be expected"-attitude. And that made all the difference in me enjoying the game.

 

The balance is indeed a little bit tilted when you start playing: If you Total Battle Rating is something like 1.3 or 1.7 you will more often than not find yourself facing opponents in the 2.3-2.7 range: You can face BR's up to 1.0 higher or lower, but since you're at the low end, you mostly face higher BR's. It gets better when your BR goes up: You still face higher BR's, but at least it's a little more even when you're at the top or the bottom of the BR range for any given battle.

 

But of course, the purpose of playing the game is to have fun and enjoy yourself, and that's entirely up to you: Either you enjoy it or you don't.

 

[Virginal_Flowers 19]

I had something similar 6 times yesterday where flying in air rb. I was playing 8.7 and my team had nothing over 9.3, and a couple of times nothing over 9.0, yet the enemy consisted of at least 3 9.7's and sometimes even 4 or 5.

Totally unbalanced

[fastnic 103]

Average BR based on the 3 highest planes you bring to batlles is not so bad IMHO. It's arcade, and you can still kill uptiered enemies without to much problems.

The biggest unbalance from my point of view comes from crew skills. Facing newcomers while you get in a battle with a full desk with all extra slots and aced crews is not taken into account by matchmaker. This is how statpadders are achieving 100% winrate.

 

[_grampaw_itchee_ 102]

18 hours ago, fastnic said:

 This is how statpadders are achieving 100% winrate.

 

 Anyone approaching a 100% winrate is not abusing new players or match making. 99% of AAB wins are due to ground pounding and there are several squadrons with many members who excel at just that.  Stat padders don't care about win rates. 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

Much different topics in this short thread.

First of all, there are problems of observation. The initial picture could be a screen of a very careful MM, where 1-death leavers (red has three already) are factored in. We don't know exactly what the MM considered. Even a well constructed match could go clearly to one side quickly. I am not saying this is the case here, I am just pointing out that even with good MM, you get odd matches. I do often have matches in which I am on the smaller team, yet we win. So to me, one such pic is not very conclusive as a proof to lack of planning. It certainly isn't a proof for planing either. It just proves nothing.

 

In air arcade, there is a problem with the MM, that far outweights any other I have seen so far! That revolves around an exploitable rule: The MM never puts players with the same clantag into opposite teams. And this ruins high tier games. Because some clans do exploit this massively. Usually, the MM balances squads, if possible. So these clans don't form squads, they just fly single. As there are often only few people queueing at high tiers, all clan members still land on the same side. And all the casuals land in the other team. There is no squad, so there is no countersquad. As teams are often only 6-10 people, this leads to absolutely unbalanced matches.

 

The initial screen is a classic first world problem in comparison to this MM exploit. I would favor a rules change that your clan tag is removed while you play unsquaded OR that the MM may auto squad players with the same clan tag and balance those squads.

 

Crew skill need not be considered by the MM at all imho. If you know what you are doing, a green crew will be fine. Here is my first match with stock israeli crews at rank 6 air AB:

Spoiler

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Dodo_Dud

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

7 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

Much different topics in this short thread.

First of all, there are problems of observation. The initial picture could be a screen of a very careful MM, where 1-death leavers (red has three already) are factored in. We don't know exactly what the MM considered. Even a well constructed match could go clearly to one side quickly. I am not saying this is the case here, I am just pointing out that even with good MM, you get odd matches. I do often have matches in which I am on the smaller team, yet we win. So to me, one such pic is not very conclusive as a proof to lack of planning. It certainly isn't a proof for planing either. It just proves nothing.

 

In air arcade, there is a problem with the MM, that far outweights any other I have seen so far! That revolves around an exploitable rule: The MM never puts players with the same clantag into opposite teams. And this ruins high tier games. Because some clans do exploit this massively. Usually, the MM balances squads, if possible. So these clans don't form squads, they just fly single. As there are often only few people queueing at high tiers, all clan members still land on the same side. And all the casuals land in the other team. There is no squad, so there is no countersquad. As teams are often only 6-10 people, this leads to absolutely unbalanced matches.

 

The initial screen is a classic first world problem in comparison to this MM exploit. I would favor a rules change that your clan tag is removed while you play unsquaded OR that the MM may auto squad players with the same clan tag and balance those squads.

 

Crew skill need not be considered by the MM at all imho. If you know what you are doing, a green crew will be fine. Here is my first match with stock israeli crews at rank 6 air AB:

Reveal hidden contents

 

1. If you play one plane and die you stay in the team lists . One death leavers have no bearing on the initial team makeups . In fact if anything I would say this encourages that behavior, You spawn in see that your team is down three players at the start why bother? which makes it even harder for the remaining players on the team .

 

2. I have seen where players from a single squad were on both sides . It dosen't happen often ( like maybe a handful of times )  but I have seen it.  The problem is the casuals all end up on one team and some of us get a constant uptier matchmaking spread against a top tier 4 player tryhard squad who rofflestomps the game.  me in a 3.0 finds it really hard to compete with a 4 player 4.0 squad 

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

46 minutes ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

1. If you play one plane and die you stay in the team lists . One death leavers have no bearing on the initial team makeups . In fact if anything I would say this encourages that behavior, You spawn in see that your team is down three players at the start why bother? which makes it even harder for the remaining players on the team .

But if you look at the initial screen, the larger team had three 1-death quitters. I can't tell from the screen if they were forseeable.

 

46 minutes ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

2. I have seen where players from a single squad were on both sides.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

46 minutes ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

The problem is the casuals all end up on one team and some of us get a constant uptier matchmaking spread against a top tier 4 player tryhard squad who rofflestomps the game.

I don't have much issues with formed 4-squads. The match maker usually balances them out ok. Many are harmless anyway.