FMA Ia.58 "Pucara" In the German Tree (discussion)

[OsO73 491]

20 minutes ago, Ein79 said:

 

Yes, I expect it being lowered after introduction unless Gaijin will give it fantasy performance. It's an aircraft with 500 km/h top speed in level flight...BR 6.3 means there are late WWII top performing props, superprops and early jets around. With AirRB markers it will be just an easy target. 

 

Well...its not like the aircraft carries something that makes it 6.3 right? aren't we talking about an...Attacker?

 

Like it or not, its probably going to be a great attacker at the BR given right now..probably a great choice to play along with the M41 or JPZ-4/5...oor in Air RB if you want.

 

EDIT: Hell even in Naval it would be a decent choice!

Edited January 11, 2022 by OsO73

[Ein79 5,752]

7 minutes ago, OsO73 said:

Well...its not like the aircraft carries something that makes it 6.3 right? aren't we talking about an...Attacker?

 

Like it or not, its probably going to be a great attacker at the BR given right now..probably a great choice to play along with the M41 or JPZ-4/5...oor in Air RB if you want.

 

EDIT: Hell even in Naval it would be a decent choice!

I have nothing against Pucara in tank matches or in naval. 

 

[OsO73 491]

I thought i might share some interesting camos the Pucara could receive in game

Spoiler

 

Argentine

This is the original Factory camo the IA.58 wore. As you can see, its...unpainted. 

They would eventually receive their first camo in what is known as the "Malvinero" liveries used in the 1982 Malvinas/Falklands war. (this had at least 2 variations)

 

Another strange livery was the one used by the 2 Ex-Mauritanian examples wore (desertic), after the Mauritanian gov was thrown in a coup, the aircraft stayed in Argentina and were inducted into the FAA.

 

Uruguayan

Original Uruguayan Camo 

Late

 

Colombian

Sri Lankan

British (captured example under evaluation)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OsO73 491]

@Cedjoe i thought this might be the best place to put it...

The Pucara using French TER(s), note that its not using any MER in the centerline pylon. 

 

About what is carrying...6 PG bombs and 2 70mm grenade launchers.

Edited January 16, 2022 by OsO73

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

multiple websites notes this planes armament as HS.804, as opposed to the HS.404 that the dev version used. Does anyone know what exactly this HS.804 is?

[OsO73 491]

18 minutes ago, L963 said:

multiple websites notes this planes armament as HS.804, as opposed to the HS.404 that the dev version used. Does anyone know what exactly this HS.804 is?

As far as i remember, the manual stated they were 804, but give me some time to check and ill confirm it! 

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

well, my question is, what exactly IS the HS.804? Googling the name just relays me to the HS.820 and HS.404, both names kinda fit but they use different ammunition at different muzzle velocity and firerate

[OsO73 491]

13 hours ago, L963 said:

well, my question is, what exactly IS the HS.804? Googling the name just relays me to the HS.820 and HS.404, both names kinda fit but they use different ammunition at different muzzle velocity and firerate

Sorry for answering so late, but here is what the 2 pieces of info from FMA (Manual and technical description) state:

 

The technical description has this:

The other just asks to get the "Fire manual"

 

 

[OsO73 491]

https://cartuchosfm.es.tl/F-.-L-.-B-20x110mm-HS-Hispano-Suiza-.-.htm

 

The 804 according to this might use 20x110mm, and regarding some mentioning of it in janes and other books...it might just be a refinement of the 404 license made in argentina.

 

Jane's and other books also mention it to be a slight modernization of the 404. Certain Argentine sources put it as Mk.V 404s, i might need to check for a more in depth description of the guns.

 

 

 

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

ah ok, so no funky 1050 m/s with 1000 rpm at lowish BR

[OsO73 491]

1 hour ago, L963 said:

ah ok, so no funky 1050 m/s with 1000 rpm at lowish BR

Nope, in fact...the 804 might be already in game, in the form of the T31 cannons used in the A2D-1 or the AM-1. Since thats the post war HS-404/804 the US used.

Edited January 18, 2022 by OsO73

[LuftKaffee 188]

I wonder why they didnt implemented that plane yet

[el_Argentino 202]

Germany really needs this thing, as a CAS attacker.

[Lord_Prism 1,826]

16 hours ago, LuftKaffee said:

I wonder why they didnt implemented that plane yet

I have it on good authority it was completely scrapped after the flight model was leaked 

[el_Argentino 202]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

I have it on good authority it was completely scrapped after the flight model was leaked 

Do you mean that he will never come again?

It's ridiculous, there was no leak, the model was in the CDK. In addition, it was also on the list of economic changes planned for that time. List (excel) published by Gaijin.

 

It will be almost 2 years now... it is an iconic plane.

[Fizzy_Elf1 125]

On 26/05/2023 at 09:12, el_Argentino said:

Do you mean that he will never come again?

It's ridiculous, there was no leak, the model was in the CDK. In addition, it was also on the list of economic changes planned for that time. List (excel) published by Gaijin.

 

It will be almost 2 years now... it is an iconic plane.

sorry to break your hope even more so. theres other planes nations been waiting on for upward of a DECADE now. 

 

likely its a mix of copy right laws and other issues that are preventing them from implementing the planes. or the company/person who they hired to create the plane/tank left and as such left what ever they were working on in legal limbo. point being if it doesnt come out within 6ish months of being leaked, its never gonna come out.

[Godvana 533]

On 26/05/2023 at 23:12, el_Argentino said:

Do you mean that he will never come again?

It's ridiculous, there was no leak, the model was in the CDK. In addition, it was also on the list of economic changes planned for that time. List (excel) published by Gaijin.

 

It will be almost 2 years now... it is an iconic plane.

 

It's probably just being redone, it was in an early white box stage as I recall, so it's not that surprising.

[LuftKaffee 188]

On 19/12/2021 at 05:21, HerrSektor said:

I agree, this should be in german tech tree

 

I think the possible reason is why they cancelled is that the plane shouldnt be in the german tree. The british forces captured 11x IA 58 in the Falklands War. 

 

[OsO73 491]

On 30/05/2023 at 14:14, LuftKaffee said:

 

I think the possible reason is why they cancelled is that the plane shouldnt be in the german tree. The british forces captured 11x IA 58 in the Falklands War. 

 

They captured them, but only one was flown by the RAF...and it was only for a very limited evaluation (no more than 20ish hours), no weapons were used and it was only to tests its flight performance. 

 

Wouldn't make much sense to give it to a nation that just flew it in clean configuration...besides, Germany could really use an attacker in 6.3.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

15 hours ago, OsO73 said:

Germany could really use an attacker in 6.3.

 

6.3? My friend, have a look at the specs on the Pucara. It's slow and can carry barely more ordnance than a Stuka. 6.3 would seem awfully high, especially when you look at the Wyvern at only 4.0...

[TerikG2014 1,389]

On 12/06/2023 at 13:49, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

6.3? My friend, have a look at the specs on the Pucara. It's slow and can carry barely more ordnance than a Stuka. 6.3 would seem awfully high, especially when you look at the Wyvern at only 4.0...

And there I think you hit the nail.onnthe head as to why it's not been added yet 

[el_Argentino 202]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:49, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

6.3? My friend, have a look at the specs on the Pucara. It's slow and can carry barely more ordnance than a Stuka. 6.3 would seem awfully high, especially when you look at the Wyvern at only 4.0...

 

It seems totally absurd to compare the Pucara with the Stuka... Neither in terms of flight performance, survivability or weaponry... they are not comparable at all.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

52 minutes ago, el_Argentino said:

     It seems totally absurd to compare the Pucara with the Stuka... Neither in terms of flight performance, survivability or weaponry... they are not comparable at all.

 

I made no comparison in regard to flight performance between the Pucara and the Stuka.

 

I did make a comparison, however, when it comes to ordnance. The Stuka can carry 1,500kg, the Pucara is limited to only about 1,600kg. Yes, of course, there is a variety of "stuff" that can be hung under the wings, but usually anything smaller than about a 250kg bomb isn't worth carrying in the average Ground RB match.

 

Other than that the Pucara has two 20mm hispanos and 4 sub-caliber machine guns.

 

When it comes to flight performance, the Pucara is limited to 500kmh at medium altitudes which is about what an early Bf 110 can do, for example.

 

I'm not arguing against the plane, not in the least bit, but it's not that impressive.

[OsO73 491]

On 12/06/2023 at 09:49, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

 

6.3? My friend, have a look at the specs on the Pucara. It's slow and can carry barely more ordnance than a Stuka. 6.3 would seem awfully high, especially when you look at the Wyvern at only 4.0...

6.3 was the BR given to it when it was seen in the dev server, its just an estimate, it could be different ofc.. 

2 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

I did make a comparison, however, when it comes to ordnance. The Stuka can carry 1,500kg, the Pucara is limited to only about 1,600kg. Yes, of course, there is a variety of "stuff" that can be hung under the wings, but usually anything smaller than about a 250kg bomb isn't worth carrying in the average Ground RB match.

You do have options for a quite variety of bombs, even larger than 250kg... + rockets (FFAR/ZUNI/T-10/etc), + torpedos + gunpods + guided missiles....i dont think the Stuka has access to something like that. I'm sure a mix of those (since it should get custom presets) its might be a bit more useful...

2 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

When it comes to flight performance, the Pucara is limited to 500kmh at medium altitudes which is about what an early Bf 110 can do, for example.

In what configuration?

2 hours ago, xF4LC0NxPUNCHx said:

I'm not arguing against the plane, not in the least bit, but it's not that impressive.

Its kinda what COIN was, i doesn't need to haul thousands of kg or be fast as a jet..

Edited June 13, 2023 by OsO73