Kingpin61 19 Report post Posted March 14, 2022 Hello, this is a simple, basic overview of my ideas for the eventual addition of the coastal branch of the Marine Nationale. Filling in the branches are everything from the first French torpedo boats to the sleek, powerful 1960s era Frigate Commandant Riviere, boasting 3 100mm/55 Modele 1953 rapid fire guns, which puts the Lubeck and Koln to shame. Quick summaries of each ship are below. The coastal tree has numerous nations, including former colonies with smaller coastal navies. Ships are from France, Djibouti, Yugoslavia, Cote D'Ivoire, and Gabon. Rank I VTB-1 (Reserve) - the first French MTB. a standard thornycroft 55ft type, with a single 8.8mm mg and 2 400mm torpedoes off the rear. VTB-8 (Reserve) - the first home built MTB. The same 400mm torpedoes, but with 2 7.5mm/80 MGs. P10 Moussa Ali (Djibouti) - A patrol boat built in the mid-80s. It packs a very powerful modern 20mm cannon as well as a 12.7mm. P778 - small boats built for overseas service, with a single browning. Sabre - ex-PC1248, another 173ft USN patrol boat. VP1 - Wooden gun boats with 2 Oerlikon and 2 twin 7.7mm/94 MGs. Zena (Djibouti) - A small patrol launch with a Browning MG as well as a 7.6mm. VTB-10 - Effectively identical to VTB-8. Rank II P-9785 - Small patrol boats with 4 pairs of 12.7mm/90s VC1 - Small patrol boats armed with Oerlikons. Amiral Mouchez - A very slow survey vessel armed with a pair of 100mm guns. (1945: + 4 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV, 2 x 1 - 13.2/76, 4 DCT, 2 DCR) VED101 - a Fairmile B transferred to France. Aconit (1945) - Legendary French Corvette. Sank 2 U-boats and assisted with several others, + rescued survivors of HMS Harvester. 1x1 4" BL Mk. IX, 2x1 57mm/40 Hotchkiss 6pdr, 2x1 20mm Oerlikon Mk. II Ударник [Udarnik] - A Yugoslav sub chaser armed with 2 Bofors and built in France. MTB-96 - The ship of Charles' de Gaulle's son, and an important part of the French 23rd flotilla. L-990 - it's a 76mm Sherman turret on a barge. *chef's kiss* Rank III Patience (Cote D'Ivoire) - A 110ft submarine chaser transferred to Cote D'Ivoire in 1961. Annamite (1948) - A 900t minesweeper armed with a twin 90mm, single Bofors, and 6 Oerlikon mounts. Marne - A WW1 era sloop with 4 100mm guns. Le Gladiateur - A unique, large "offensive minelayer" with two twin 90mm guns plus several light machine guns backing them up. Bier Hakeim - Formerly the German T11, France recieved this ship after the war. It has a single 105mm aft, as well as a triple torpedo tube and numerous smaller guns. CH11 (Poland) - A French minesweeper which served under the Polish flag from the armistice until the time it was given to the FNFL. La Surprise (1949) - A River class corvette armed with a pair of German 105mms. Rank IV L'Audacieux (Cameroon) - A slow gun boat which wields a pair of 40mm/70 Bofors General Boulingui (Gabon) - A fast missile boat with a 40mm/70 Bofors and 4 SSMs. Baccarat - A type 1937 torpedo boat taken over by France after the war. It boasts a second set of torpedo tubes, plus a single 105mm aft. General Oumar (Gabon) - A fast attack craft armed with an automatic Russian 57mm and a powerful modern French 20mm. Bouganville - A colonial aviso armed with 3 single 139mm guns. Bouclier - A bulky torpedo boat carrying 100mm guns. La Combattante - A prototype patrol ship which carries Bofors guns and SSMs Le Fier (sq) - A series of 1000t standard torpedo boats with dual purpose 100mm armament. While they were never completed, the German redesigns were sold to Spain and became the Audaz class. Rank V Francis Garnier - A former Italian colonial sloop, transferred to France postwar. L'Alsacien (1960) - Armed with a pair of powerful 57mm Bofors twin guns, these postwar escorts also carried 4 triple torpedo tubes for anti-surface and anti submarine torpedoes as well as a 305mm ASW rocket launcher. Le Corse - Part of the E50 program, these ships were purpose built convoy escorts featuring 3 twin 57mm funs as well as numerous torpedoes and anti-submarine weapons. Le Normand - A successor to the E50 program, the E52 series improved the arcs of fire for its weaponry and relocated the torpedo armament. Commandant Rivierre - A combination aviso and convoy escort, this series carried 3 automatic 100mm guns as well as brand new 30mm mount plus torpedo tubes and a 305mm ASW rocket launcher. 3 1 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josephs_Piano 7,044 Report post Posted March 14, 2022 looks good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon75 460 Report post Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) it's not a bad start but if you give me the permission, here is some points to have a better result closer to historical reallity and gameplay requirement : Spoiler as a critic I might start to say some choices are weird to me : the very modern and lightly armed P778 and P772 (Zena) are very slow and armed with one 12.7 or a combination of 12.7 and 7.5, this is far from any early ww2 gunboat present in other nations, same for VTB1 that has only 2 torps and a lonely 8mm (certainly 1914 Hotchkiss MG) leading to be the worse reserve boat ahead of the british that at least compensate by the number of their LMG. Those will make the rank 1 quite terrible and painfull to play like the early days of french ground tree, preventing people to play it, Naval being already not very popular, no need to suffer more. The numerous use of exported material when we could have the french counterpart is also quite surprising. It should be only used when France had not used a type or have any equivalent, like with the La Combattante II and III who are basically french made Albatros/Bussard (missing in your tree) who was a joint venture to equiped the german navy, half of the first batches were produce in France, but they split up completely Germany produce their modernised version themself, and france produce modernise version for export (i.e Greece navy). Also La Combatante you have listed should be top tier since it's an equivalent to the Italian Saetta at 4.7 (they were able to use SS.11 and SS.12), and doesn't have the good visual : [ edit : maybe in your tree it's the british torpedo boat used by free french, maybe a date in the name could help differentiate, like the two profile pics are 1965 and 1978 configuration of the same boat, or the roundel symbol maybe...] That's also a point quite important, you have to compare what each ship have, with what we got ingame already, to guess/estimate a braket of Br it will fit in the best. The things you have to take a look at are ofc firepower : caliber, rof, fcs, radar, fire angles (like if some superstructure are blocking the view etc), and number of them obviously; survivability : armor, crewmembers; then the mobility with the max speed. You have added P-9785 so I guess you found it on Navypedia (?) while being a good way to raise an idea of what could be added to France, there is still a lot missing on that website and some mistakes too. For example P-9785 isn't armed with 4 twin .50 but 2 quad .50, I'll make a suggestion about that one when I will have a bit more time. Speaking of Suggestion, go check the naval french suggestion topic you'll found a lot of stuff Edited March 15, 2022 by Abaddon75 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingpin61 19 Report post Posted March 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Abaddon75 said: it's not a bad start but if you give me the permission, here is some points to have a better result closer to historical reallity and gameplay requirement : Reveal hidden contents as a critic I might start to say some choices are weird to me : the very modern and lightly armed P778 and P772 (Zena) are very slow and armed with one 12.7 or a combination of 12.7 and 7.5, this is far from any early ww2 gunboat present in other nations, same for VTB1 that has only 2 torps and a lonely 8mm (certainly 1914 Hotchkiss MG) leading to be the worse reserve boat ahead of the british that at least compensate by the number of their LMG. Those will make the rank 1 quite terrible and painfull to play like the early days of french ground tree, preventing people to play it, Naval being already not very popular, no need to suffer more. The numerous use of exported material when we could have the french counterpart is also quite surprising. It should be only used when France had not used a type or have any equivalent, like with the La Combattante II and III who are basically french made Albatros/Bussard (missing in your tree) who was a joint venture to equiped the german navy, half of the first batches were produce in France, but they split up completely Germany produce their modernised version themself, and france produce modernise version for export (i.e Greece navy). Also La Combatante you have listed should be top tier since it's an equivalent to the Italian Saetta at 4.7 (they were able to use SS.11 and SS.12), and doesn't have the good visual : [ edit : maybe in your tree it's the british torpedo boat used by free french, maybe a date in the name could help differentiate, like the two profile pics are 1965 and 1978 configuration of the same boat, or the roundel symbol maybe...] That's also a point quite important, you have to compare what each ship have, with what we got ingame already, to guess/estimate a braket of Br it will fit in the best. The things you have to take a look at are ofc firepower : caliber, rof, fcs, radar, fire angles (like if some superstructure are blocking the view etc), and number of them obviously; survivability : armor, crewmembers; then the mobility with the max speed. You have added P-9785 so I guess you found it on Navypedia (?) while being a good way to raise an idea of what could be added to France, there is still a lot missing on that website and some mistakes too. For example P-9785 isn't armed with 4 twin .50 but 2 quad .50, I'll make a suggestion about that one when I will have a bit more time. Speaking of Suggestion, go check the naval french suggestion topic you'll found a lot of stuff My personal issue with including Combattante as a Saetta equivalent is that as far as I know, Combattante carried the L/60 Bofors mounts instead of the L/70 on the Saetta. and yeah, looking back at this now I definitely would make some small edits, including moving the 20mm/90 armed boats up a fair bit due to the power of that gun. At the end of the day, this is more of a basic outline of what i'd like to see, as well as something to hopefully start a discussion on the eventual addition of the Marine Nationale. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon75 460 Report post Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Kingpin61 said: My personal issue with including Combattante as a Saetta equivalent is that as far as I know, Combattante carried the L/60 Bofors mounts instead of the L/70 on the Saetta. and yeah, looking back at this now I definitely would make some small edits, including moving the 20mm/90 armed boats up a fair bit due to the power of that gun. At the end of the day, this is more of a basic outline of what i'd like to see, as well as something to hopefully start a discussion on the eventual addition of the Marine Nationale. Ah yeah I always forgot they used L/70, that's why I also talk of braket, imo they are still better than straight PT boat using 2xL/60 and a **** tone of .50cal found at 3.0/3.3, so they could be between 3.7/4.3 The 20mm/90 would be good, but probably not as good as gatling 20mm, but I don't see any ships that only have that gun in your tree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Occita 2 Report post Posted March 16, 2022 On 15/03/2022 at 00:30, Kingpin61 said: Hello, this is a simple, basic overview of my ideas for the eventual addition of the coastal branch of the Marine Nationale. Filling in the branches are everything from the first French torpedo boats to the sleek, powerful 1960s era Frigate Commandant Riviere, boasting 3 100mm/55 Modele 1953 rapid fire guns, which puts the Lubeck and Koln to shame. Quick summaries of each ship are below. The coastal tree has numerous nations, including former colonies with smaller coastal navies. Ships are from France, Djibouti, Yugoslavia, Cote D'Ivoire, and Gabon. Rank I VTB-1 (Reserve) - the first French MTB. a standard thornycroft 55ft type, with a single 8.8mm mg and 2 400mm torpedoes off the rear. VTB-8 (Reserve) - the first home built MTB. The same 400mm torpedoes, but with 2 7.5mm/80 MGs. P10 Moussa Ali (Djibouti) - A patrol boat built in the mid-80s. It packs a very powerful modern 20mm cannon as well as a 12.7mm. P778 - small boats built for overseas service, with a single browning. Sabre - ex-PC1248, another 173ft USN patrol boat. VP1 - Wooden gun boats with 2 Oerlikon and 2 twin 7.7mm/94 MGs. Zena (Djibouti) - A small patrol launch with a Browning MG as well as a 7.6mm. VTB-10 - Effectively identical to VTB-8. Rank II P-9785 - Small patrol boats with 4 pairs of 12.7mm/90s VC1 - Small patrol boats armed with Oerlikons. Amiral Mouchez - A very slow survey vessel armed with a pair of 100mm guns. (1945: + 4 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV, 2 x 1 - 13.2/76, 4 DCT, 2 DCR) VED101 - a Fairmile B transferred to France. Aconit (1945) - Legendary French Corvette. Sank 2 U-boats and assisted with several others, + rescued survivors of HMS Harvester. 1x1 4" BL Mk. IX, 2x1 57mm/40 Hotchkiss 6pdr, 2x1 20mm Oerlikon Mk. II Ударник [Udarnik] - A Yugoslav sub chaser armed with 2 Bofors and built in France. MTB-96 - The ship of Charles' de Gaulle's son, and an important part of the French 23rd flotilla. L-990 - it's a 76mm Sherman turret on a barge. *chef's kiss* Rank III Patience (Cote D'Ivoire) - A 110ft submarine chaser transferred to Cote D'Ivoire in 1961. Annamite (1948) - A 900t minesweeper armed with a twin 90mm, single Bofors, and 6 Oerlikon mounts. Marne - A WW1 era sloop with 4 100mm guns. Le Gladiateur - A unique, large "offensive minelayer" with two twin 90mm guns plus several light machine guns backing them up. Bier Hakeim - Formerly the German T11, France recieved this ship after the war. It has a single 105mm aft, as well as a triple torpedo tube and numerous smaller guns. CH11 (Poland) - A French minesweeper which served under the Polish flag from the armistice until the time it was given to the FNFL. La Surprise (1949) - A River class corvette armed with a pair of German 105mms. Rank IV L'Audacieux (Cameroon) - A slow gun boat which wields a pair of 40mm/70 Bofors General Boulingui (Gabon) - A fast missile boat with a 40mm/70 Bofors and 4 SSMs. Baccarat - A type 1937 torpedo boat taken over by France after the war. It boasts a second set of torpedo tubes, plus a single 105mm aft. General Oumar (Gabon) - A fast attack craft armed with an automatic Russian 57mm and a powerful modern French 20mm. Bouganville - A colonial aviso armed with 3 single 139mm guns. Bouclier - A bulky torpedo boat carrying 100mm guns. La Combattante - A prototype patrol ship which carries Bofors guns and SSMs Le Fier (sq) - A series of 1000t standard torpedo boats with dual purpose 100mm armament. While they were never completed, the German redesigns were sold to Spain and became the Audaz class. Rank V Francis Garnier - A former Italian colonial sloop, transferred to France postwar. L'Alsacien (1960) - Armed with a pair of powerful 57mm Bofors twin guns, these postwar escorts also carried 4 triple torpedo tubes for anti-surface and anti submarine torpedoes as well as a 305mm ASW rocket launcher. Le Corse - Part of the E50 program, these ships were purpose built convoy escorts featuring 3 twin 57mm funs as well as numerous torpedoes and anti-submarine weapons. Le Normand - A successor to the E50 program, the E52 series improved the arcs of fire for its weaponry and relocated the torpedo armament. Commandant Rivierre - A combination aviso and convoy escort, this series carried 3 automatic 100mm guns as well as brand new 30mm mount plus torpedo tubes and a 305mm ASW rocket launcher. Hello i am french. I have seen some errors in the names of the ships which do not correspond to French or are incorrect names or even English versions of the original name. here are my French corrections. Bier Hakim => Bir Hakeim Bir Hakeim — Wikipédia (wikipedia.org) Poland => Pologne ( Poland its in english not french ) , polish => polonais Bouganville => Bougainville ( french amiral ) Bougainville (aviso) — Wikipédia (wikipedia.org) commandant Rivierre => Commandant Rivière Commandant Rivière-class frigate - Wikipedia just little french correction , but good work. i hope one day i see my country navy in game. thank ( merci ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian70 1,643 Report post Posted June 18, 2022 I agree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
