Giving 3,7 cm Flaks the H-Pzgr L´Spur

[Ghostmaxi 873]

I would like to suggest to give the 3,7 cm H-Pzgr L´Spur HVAP/APCR round to 3,7 cm Flak (36,37,43 and 44) guns such as found on the Sd.Kfz 6/2 (really not needed here at 1.7, its just an example) Ostwind, Ostwind II and Flakpanzer 341 and perhaps future vehicles like the s.W.S mit 3,7 cm Flak 43.

 

Such H-Pzgr or Pzgr 40 is allready found in the german tree on the 15, 20 and 30 mm Flak guns, but not yet on the 37mm Flaks. In the russian tree the ZSU 37 at Br 3.7 also got such an APCR round and other nations have strong guns in the first place such as the 40mm Bofors L/60 and L/70 in the american, british, french, swedish, japanese, chinese tree wether it beeing licence build or developed upon guns with penetration ranges of 72mm to 96mm at 10m with full bore ammo which is good at angles unlike APCR

 

Starting allready in mid war germany was in dire need for more AT guns, so all AA guns were dual purpose, to fight against planes and tanks. As such Ap ammo was given and the Bk 37 was only loaded up with H-Pzgr,

but ground crews also got their  hand on such ammo, recongnisable by the White Aluminium, Magnesium cap. It is allready found on planes with the Bk 37 such as the Ju 87 G-1 and G-2, the Hs 129 B-2 and Bf 110 G-2. As well as Flakpanzers were to follow tank collums and had to protect semselfs as well as fight back if no enemy plane was in sight.

 

The H-Pzgr L´Spur:

37mm 0,405 kg 1150-1170m/s and a penetration of 108mm at 10m

It could be added in a mixed belt of HVAP-T Aphe HVAP-T Aphe like on the 20mm guns or similar configurations.

 

A picture of a Replica:

Ap and Aphe rounds are colored black while HVAP rounds have a white Aluminium Head

In this picture is a 3,7 cm Flak 36 or 37 in an Dug in position Loaded with the visible white H-Pzgr ready to engage targets.

Overall used against enemy armor:

Dug in Half Track

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ghostmaxi

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[CubicSquare 156]

I'm in favor of giving HVAP-T to the Ostwind 2/ Coelion, but I simply can't justify giving it to the regular ostwind/ 6/2. When compared to the PUMA's gun, it shares similar levels of penetration up to 30 degrees and weighs 4x more, with a higher ROF. The ostwind isn't supposed to be able to be an IFV.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by CubicSquare

[Ghostmaxi 873]

13 minutes ago, CubicSquare said:

I'm in favor of giving HVAP-T to the Ostwind 2/ Coelion, but I simply can't justify giving it to the regular ostwind/ 6/2. When compared to the PUMA's gun, it shares similar levels of penetration up to 30 degrees and weighs 4x more, with a higher ROF. The ostwind isn't supposed to be able to be an IFV.

 

 

You cant compare an Apcr to an Apdsfs, the penetration has a really high dropoff at above 30°, the round is allready in game with the calculation, you can look at it, 40mm bofors L/70 such as in the french and swedish tree are better at angles iirc 

And certainly the round wont get a full belt as seen on other AAs so you can do the fire rate /2 or /3

And the Puma round is wrong there is a report about it.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Ghostmaxi

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 for sure, this would be a great new ammo option.  

[eggo_doggo 42]

YES, finally after the people saying: if there isn't any evidence of it it doesn't exist. and you are here to prove them wrong! the normal APHE is quite lackluster against medium tanks so i would really want this as the sdkfz 6/2 is my favorite SPAAG next to the kugelblitz!

 

btw the first picture of the flak 37 with the hvap loaded is a flak 37 because of the bigger and advanced flakvisier 37 and because of the non perforated muzzle break (although this was also sometimes fitted to flak 36)

Edited April 5, 2022 by eggo_doggo

[Ghostmaxi 873]

46 minutes ago, eggo_doggo said:

btw the first picture of the flak 37 with the hvap loaded is a flak 37 because of the bigger and advanced flakvisier 37 and because of the non perforated muzzle break (although this was also sometimes fitted to flak 36

Oh cool thx, i didnt know the difference between them.

But on the 6/2 (while it is also my favourite and missing 1 crew member and 15 hp as well as beeing too heavy (i think they took the weight of the 7/2)) it is most likely not coming considdering it is at br 1.7

Edited April 5, 2022 by Ghostmaxi

[eggo_doggo 42]

22 hours ago, Ghostmaxi said:

Oh cool thx, i didnt know the difference between them.

But on the 6/2 (while it is also my favourite and missing 1 crew member and 15 hp as well as beeing too heavy (i think they took the weight of the 7/2)) it is most likely not coming considdering it is at br 1.7

what crew member is it missing? i have an suggestion in mind that would give it an extra crew member with a stereoscopic rangefinder but next to that i don't know any other crew member that could be missing.
btw i have a lot of cool idea's for the sdkfz 6/2 (and a lot of bug reports too...) if you want to hear them just ask me!

[Ghostmaxi 873]

43 minutes ago, eggo_doggo said:

what crew member is it missing? i have an suggestion in mind that would give it an extra crew member with a stereoscopic rangefinder but next to that i don't know any other crew member that could be missing.
btw i have a lot of cool idea's for the sdkfz 6/2 (and a lot of bug reports too...) if you want to hear them just ask me!

Shure tell me

And well at the beginning 7 crew:

1.Driver 2.Gunner 3.Commander 4. Loader 5.Loader 2(i guess?) 6. Rangefinder person 1. 7. Rangefinder person 2.

Abd later down to 5.

Driver gunner commander loader rangefinder.

I am not so shure but books and docs say 5-7 and pics also do.

[eggo_doggo 42]

10 minutes ago, Ghostmaxi said:

Shure tell me

And well at the beginning 7 crew:

1.Driver 2.Gunner 3.Commander 4. Loader 5.Loader 2(i guess?) 6. Rangefinder person 1. 7. Rangefinder person 2.

Abd later down to 5.

Driver gunner commander loader rangefinder.

I am not so shure but books and docs say 5-7 and pics also do.

ah ok so maybe a second loader is missing,

but what i currently have in mind for the things i want to suggest (after i get those damn bug reports sorted) mostly to do with the sdkfz 6/2 and open vehicles:

visible Crew rework (reload animation, trigger animation, gore, higher quality textures)
visible shell rework (different models for different shells, shows the types of shells you have loaded, accurate markings, accurate shell casings, more breech animations)
sdkfz 6/2 Sd.Ah.52 / Sd.Ah.57 munition trailer modification
SPAAG sight system rework (ability to switch between sights example: 3x8 ground target sight + flakvisier 36, working flakvisier/schwebedornvisier/schwebekreisvisier, historical flakvisier reticle, reticle visible from 3rd person view)
Stielgranate 41 for 3,7 cm Flak 36
removed plane selection system in ground RB but now only for radarless SPAAG
sdkfz 6/2 extra crew member with an Entfernungsmesser 1M R36 stereoscopic rangefinder (can work together with flakvisier + plane selection system to give range to target)
sdkfz 6/2 make loader sit horizontally, replace the ammo boxes at his feet with ammo clips and add a moving ammo to first stowage mechanic
add small dust trail behind tanks and wheeled vehicles
sdkfz 6/2 add kar 98k to the front wheel fenders
sdkfz 6/2 model rework

and next to that are some bugs with the sdkfz 6/2 regarding ammo count, the total lack of animation of the breech and that it is missing some stuff on the vehicle itself.

[EddieVanHalo@live 880]

On 04/04/2022 at 05:20, CubicSquare said:

I'm in favor of giving HVAP-T to the Ostwind 2/ Coelion, but I simply can't justify giving it to the regular ostwind/ 6/2. When compared to the PUMA's gun, it shares similar levels of penetration up to 30 degrees and weighs 4x more, with a higher ROF. The ostwind isn't supposed to be able to be an IFV.

 

 

Like the OP said many vehicles were needed to be dual purpose. also allied SPAA was used as AFV simply because the Germans had so few Aircraft to shoot at  

Edited April 6, 2022 by EddieVanHalo@live

[Lord_Prism 1,827]

Well currently the Chinese 37mm has HVAP, so I see no reason later 37mm SPAA shouldn't get it for balance reasons (Ostwind I-II, Coelian, perhaps the Sd.Kzf if the need is there for it)

[Ghostmaxi 873]

20 hours ago, Lord_Prism said:

Well currently the Chinese 37mm has HVAP, so I see no reason later 37mm SPAA shouldn't get it for balance reasons (Ostwind I-II, Coelian, perhaps the Sd.Kzf if the need is there for it)

The russian also has.

[Lord_Prism 1,827]

2 hours ago, Ghostmaxi said:

The russian also has.

But not the German? Funny

[memer4life9000@psn 36]

Yes please! I’ve been asking for something like this for a while. The Ostwind II and Flakpanzer 341 lack the penetration that other SPAAGs like the M42 Duster and AMX-13 DCA 40 have, and I think an APCR round could really help them better defend themselves, since frankly, 50mm of pen can be kinda hit-or-miss at times.

 

That said, I think Gaijin might have to do what they did with the OTOMATIC, and consider limiting the amount of APCR players can carry, since a constant barrage of ~100mm pen APCR from two separate barrels at 5.0-6.3 would be kinda scary. But who knows? Maybe it won’t end up too OP. We’d have to wait and see.

[伊地知虹夏正在点国策 1,289]

+1

[Flak_Dancer 9,733]

Yes, gib!!! 

[Spr4yz 59]

Great find. It would definitely make the Ostwind a better vehicle at its BR, because I can't hit squat with the gun against air targets. ^^