"Standardized" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)

[ACR_1990_N64@psn 258]

Introducing the "Standardized" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)!

 

 

(Photographs in spoilers.)

 

Spoiler

 

Short history on the "Standardized" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r).

 

 

I'll give a brief historical background for the Medium Tank T-34, but beyond that. I won't go into too much detail on the history of the T-34 itself, not only has this been covered in many other T-34 related suggestions and some of them are already in the game, but if I actually did using all the books and sources I have on the vehicle? This suggestion would literally be a novel with the sheer amount of things to detail on the T-34's history and the sheer amount of models and prototypes that came of it. The main focus of this suggestion is primarily on the historical background of the German military's encounters with the tank series and how this particular Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) came into existence.

Medium Tank T-34 was the result of Fast Tank BT series and Medium Tank T28 series and many other Soviet vehicles being very outdated and especially vulnerable to infantry attacks involving Molotov cocktails and other infantry based anti-tank measures. As a result, the first prototype that would eventually lead to the T-34 came in the form of A-32 which was tested against the A-20 tank in trials that began in July, 18th, 1939, It would eventually be contracted to be given increased armor protection and also given the new name "A-34" in September, 28th, 1939. All trials involving the A-34 tank would eventually result in the tank being accepted into the Soviet armored force under its iconic name "T-34" in 1940. Sadly its chief designer, Mikhail Ilyich Koshkin, died as a result of its testing. 

 

Originally a lot of the issues with Medium Tank T-34 Mod.40 and eventually Medium Tank T-34 Mod.41 were to be ironed out with a prototype vehicle called Medium Tank T-34M, but Nazi Germany's Operation Barbarossa canned any plans to proceed with the concept and instead latter models of T-34 were given elements from the T-34M program. Eventually as the war progressed, the desire for a more powerful gun for the T-34 after encountering more powerful German armor during the Battle of Kursk, resulted in the mass production of Medium Tank T-34-85 in January 1944. By the end of the war, the T-34 (Especially if you count vehicles made from its hull.) was the most mass produced tank of the whole war, making it one of the most highest produced tanks in human history.

 

Even after World War 2 was over, the T-34-85 in particular continued to fight in various wars afterwards, most notably against the US Army's M4A3E8 Sherman and M26 Pershing tanks in the Korean War. As of the date of this suggestion thread, the T-34-85 is still being used for combat to this day.

 

With the short history of Medium Tank T-34 out of the way, lets talk about the Germany Military's experiences with encountering and using the Medium Tank T-34.

 

 

Even before the invasion of Poland, Nazi Germany was absolutely starving for tanks and fuel and despite their master race beliefs, it was actually pretty common to see Beutepanzers or "trophy tanks" in their ranks and there likely wasn't a single enemy nation that didn't have a tank of theirs serving in the German army at one point in the war. The German army made use of Polish, British Commonwealth, French, Soviet and American tanks, but the most numerous Beutepanzers came from the French and the Russians. Out of all the Beutepanzers, the T-34 likely holds the reward for being one of the most desired Beutepanzer the Germans would possess whenever possible. Which comes as no surprise as the T-34 left quite the impression on unfortunate German tankers and anti-tank crews who encountered them shortly after Operation Barbarossa began.

 

Despite the unreliability problems and lack of situational awareness plaguing early examples at the time, the T-34 was well armed with a 76mm gun, had superior mobility to the Panzer III and IVs due to the wider tacks and powerful engine and had strong armor protection for its time, it was able to engage German armor and anti-tank crews with little fear of being destroyed by most of their guns. Which were often 37 and 50mm anti-tank guns and 75mm howitzers, only specific caliber guns such as the 88mm could reliably knock them out at the time.

 

So it comes as no surprise that whenever possible. The German Army would capture knocked out or abandoned T-34s, fix them up and often even give them various field modifications such as radios, storage boxes and commander cupolas, paint them and mark them up with German symbols and camouflage, and than send them back to be used against their former owners. These modifications could be so extreme as to change them into entirely different designations, one famous example being a T-34 modified to the role of a flakpanzer by giving it a entirely different turret and rearming it with 20mm auto-cannons. The German Army would officially label these vehicles "Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)."

From what I have seen, it appears basically all mass production models of T-34 were used by the German Army as Beutepanzers and even vehicles based on them such as the SU series of Self Propelled Guns/Tank Destroyers were captured and used against their former operators. 

 

 

Pretty much all German modified Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)s were field modified, with the sole exception of one. This particular Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) in the photos isn't the result of a field modification, it's the result of a conversion by the Germany Government/Military itself!

 

In July, 30th, 1943, the "Oberkommando De Heeres" took note of the interest of German troops capturing and using Medium Tank T-34s and decided to initiate a program that would result in all captured Medium Tank T-34s being collected from their respective crews, heavily modified by the government to German military standards and than return them to the front lines for combat. The biggest reason for this program was not only the German tankers found them to be amazing vehicles, but the German military and government as well as they wanted to use them heavily as a supplement for Panzer forces in the Eastern Front. It would also give German tank mechanics more familiarity with the vehicles when they needed to be repaired or more were captured damaged....... Don't ask me what they planned to do to repair these vehicles considering that would require spare T-34 parts, you know how the German military/government was at the time. 

 

In the end, this didn't go anywhere, but fortunately the Germans rarely allowed a armor idea to fall short of the working prototype stage (In this case a single conversion.) and as a result, we have confirmed photographs of what the average "standardized" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) would have looked like if the program actually went anywhere, this would have been the version of Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) that pretty much all Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) would have been bare minimum if this program went anywhere. This special Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) was either converted in Daimler-Benz Werk in Berlin-Marienfield or Wumag in Görlitz. 

 

With that out of the way, lets get into the guts of the vehicle itself.

 

 

The "Standardized" (Though the main source of the vehicle itself nicknamed it "Wunderwaffe.") Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) appears to be basically the cast turret version of Medium Tank T-34 Mod. 41 (T-34 (1st Gv.T.Br.) already in game, but with various modifications by the German Military/Government to make it more standardized and suitable for German tanker use. Various modifications to the vehicle included a Notek blackout light, two extra lights on the frontal hull armor, a German jack and spade mount with the required German equipment, German storage boxes, a German antenna socket plus the required German equipment, German multicolor camouflage, German mudguards and Panzer III/IV Cupola and separate hatch for the loader. Due to the Cupola, it would also be capable of mounting a MG34 Machine Gun for anti-air purposes.

As you can see in the photographs, the quality and craftsmanship of the conversion is FAR too good to be the results of on the field modifications. Further proving its background is the result of a Goverment/Military program done by a factory or facility.

 

 

TLDR Specifications

 

 

Total Combat Weight: Likely still around 28.3 Tons.

 

Armament: 76mm F-34 Main Gun, (77 rounds of ammunition.), 2 7.62mm DT Machine Guns, (1890 rounds of ammunition.) 1 MG34 Machine Gun. (Unknown amount of ammunition.)

 

Turret Armor Profile: 45mm front, 45mm sides, 45mm rear.

 

Hull Armor Profile: 45mm front, 45mm sides, 40mm rear.

 

Engine And Transmission: 500 horsepower 1800rpm, 4 gears forward, 1 gear reverse.

 

Maximum Forward and Reverse Speeds: 48.2km/h (30mph) forwards, -6.4km/h (-4mph) backwards.

 

Crew Number: 1 Driver, 1 Hull Machine Gunner, 1 Loader, 1 Gunner/Tank Commander.

 

 

Why would we want this in War Thunder?

 

 

I think the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) is in dire need of being replaced in my opinion, a couple of major problems is the amount of changes made to this particular example aren't extensive enough in my opinion to easily immediately identify it as a German captured vehicle in simulator matches, which can result in friendly fire incidents. (Especially with its winter camo.) Another thing that always bugged me about it is it is a field modified vehicle which means it was likely completely unique in reality, but the method of acquiring it only requires a cheap golden eagle purchase. This usually results in several of them showing up on the German team in at least a few matches in a 3.7-4.7BR gaming session.

At least in this case, this version was intended to be the bare minimum standard expected from the German Government/Military on how multiple examples of Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) should look like. It should be up to players making creative uses of decorations and decals who should build a more "unique" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) from there like with the mass production or prototype vehicles already in game.

 

Originally I wanted this to be a replacement for the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r), but after putting some thought into it, maybe it was not a great idea to force such a option and opinion when all my other suggestions haven't, considering how the playerbase can be sometimes. There's been incidents where people have literally teamkilled people who were in the same vehicle as them in sim battles (I had seen a case where a player teamkilled another player and both of them were in Jagdpanzer IVs.) so maybe it wouldn't make that much of a difference if the "Standardized" Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) or the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) were in such positions anyway. I still stand by my statement that a field modified version of the Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) shouldn't be as easy to get as it is and this should replace it as the GE premium for that reason however, but that's my opinion.

 

I think it has a place in the game at least mainly because of its historical background as a captured vehicle converted by the German Military/Government as a "standardized" supplement vehicle to back up authentic German tanks in combat. Which sets it apart from all other Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) that could have been chosen for this suggestion.

 

 

Final Words.

 

 

Originally I had made a suggestion for a Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) with various field modifications from many different Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)s rolled into it and got rejected due to this fact. I had left it at that for over a year and even after finally asking a mod and confirming that was the reason the original suggestion got rejected, I wasn't planning to ever try to make a suggestion to replace the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) again.

 

However a recollection struck me soon after, I specifically remembered a few pages from the book "Panzerkampwagen T-34 747 (r): The Soviet T-34 Tank as Beutepanzer and Panzerattrappe in German Wehrmacht Service 1941-45" about this particular Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) and due to its unique background. Decided to try again with it instead. Not only is this Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) more special due to its historical background, but it also still accomplishes my original desire to bring a more obvious Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) to the table that is more easy to identify in simulator battles. 

 

Of course as we have seen with many vehicles removed or moved from one tech tree to another. Gaijin very likely won't punish people who already bought the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) and they will be allowed to keep their ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) that they had already purchased, so if this ever becomes reality. Congratulations, plenty of you now can officially get your paws on TWO Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)s. xD

 

Originally I had made a suggestion for a Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) with various field modifications from many different Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)s rolled into it and got rejected due to this fact. I had left it at that for over a year and even after finally asking a mod and confirming that was the reason the original suggestion got rejected, that suggestion was originally for the intention of replacing the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r).

 

I made this suggestion for the same reason, but changed my mind of making it a hard choice for the voting base. People are still free to vote yes to the concept of it replacing the ingame Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r), but if they don't want agree, they can now vote on whether it should be in the game at all or not at all.

 

 

References

 

 

Source 1: "Panzerkampwagen T-34 747 (r): The Soviet T-34 Tank as Beutepanzer and Panzerattrappe in German Wehrmacht Service 1941-45" by Jochen Vollert

Source 2: "PANZER TRACTS No.19-2 Beute-Panzerkampfwagen British, American, Russian and Italian Tanks Captured From 1940 to 1945" by Thomas L. Jentz and Werner Regenberg

 

Source 3: http://beutepanzer.ru/index.htm

 

Source 4: "Designing The T-34: Genesis of the Revolutionary Soviet Tank" by Peter Samsonov

 

Source 5: "T-34 Tank Owners' Workshop Manual" by Mark Healy

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by ACR_1990_N64@psn

[kleinerPanzer 648]

Open for discussion. 

[de Radio Demon@live 266]

+1 yes for me but also a bit of no, I think it would be nice to be added since we haven't seen many lower tier premium vehicles for many nations for some time now, I think this would be a nice addition but for me I would prefer it be added as apart of a battle pass as the low tier premium vehicle or as apart of a event rather than replace the existing one, though if they were to replace the current one with this if they were to put the one we have currently in a event or battle pass I think I would be all for it, now due to their being people who own it already they would still be able to earn the vehicle as they could maybe exchange it for the new one instead because Gaijin will in any case will not fully remove the current one but would only make the vehicle a hidden one. I also do believe that maybe it could be added as a vehicle you would need to purchase before the one we have in-game since this one would be 3.7 rather than 4.0 since the current one has more armor than this one so yeah, but that's just my thoughts.

[ACR_1990_N64@psn 258]

3 hours ago, de Radio Demon@live said:

+1 yes for me but also a bit of no, I think it would be nice to be added since we haven't seen many lower tier premium vehicles for many nations for some time now, I think this would be a nice addition but for me I would prefer it be added as apart of a battle pass as the low tier premium vehicle or as apart of a event rather than replace the existing one, though if they were to replace the current one with this if they were to put the one we have currently in a event or battle pass I think I would be all for it, now due to their being people who own it already they would still be able to earn the vehicle as they could maybe exchange it for the new one instead because Gaijin will in any case will not fully remove the current one but would only make the vehicle a hidden one. I also do believe that maybe it could be added as a vehicle you would need to purchase before the one we have in-game since this one would be 3.7 rather than 4.0 since the current one has more armor than this one so yeah, but that's just my thoughts.

 

The problem with giving it the option to just be added to the game instead of being a replacement is if it went that way, people would likely literally flood the German suggestion forum with a almost endless amount of Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) posts, you only really need to give a general historical description of the tank itself and the historical background of the Germans using them and use the first three sources I used and bingo, new  Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r) thread. You could do it with literally any field modified example shown in historical photographs.

 

God help the Gaijin staff members who would be tasked with naming them all so you could differentiate them immediately. = P

 

I never wanted to be the match to set off that particular powder keg. So I decided best to post this particular example as a potential replacement option instead and I will likely keep my foot down on my decision to make it so. The two most likely things that will eventually overrule me if it comes down to it will either be the voting population of the forums or Gaijin itself. Cause I really don't like the idea of saturating the whole German tech tree or game events with a near endless number of different field modified Pz.Kpfw. T-34 747 (r)s and out of all of those potential options, I thought this one would be the best option to replace the ingame example with due to it being a conversion by the German Government/Military.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by ACR_1990_N64@psn

[DMYEugen 688]

+1 but not as a replacement.

[ACR_1990_N64@psn 258]

You know? I put some more thought into it and I'll admit I'm the fool for overthinking it. 

I guess if there was ever gonna be a flood of Panzerkampwagen T-34 747 (r) suggestions, it would have happened long before I ever made this suggestion so I'll change my mind on the matter and add a poll to add it as a separate vehicle, though I still believe it should replace the ingame T-34 747 (r) as a purchase option instead of them either showing up side by side as GE premiums or with the one intended to be a  "Standardized" version being the rare or event vehicle.

 

 

 

 

[Milocat 4,854]

I'll take it as a new vehicle but not if it replaces the existing one.