AH-64E Apache in UK Service

[_Froge_ 30]

 

Overview

 

The first AH-64Es were delivered in November 2020, and as of January 2022 have entered service with the Army Air Corps, with an initial fleet of 14 vehicles (as at Jan 2022), with a total of 50 vehicles being delivered by 2024. These AH-64Es are being converted from AH Mk.1 aircraft, reducing the costs involved in the program. A lot of the upgrades won't have an impact in-game. 

 

Unlike the AH Mk.1, which swapped the US engines for Rolls-Royce RTM322s (among some other minor changes), the MoD have opted to leave the AH-64E unchanged from its original spec. This means the T700-GE-701D engines and improved transmission will be retained. The radar systems have been improved, being able to detect and classify up to 256 potential targets, displaying up to 128 of those to the crew, and prioritising the 16 most significant threats in a matter of seconds, at ranges up to 16km.

 

Despite an MoD-funded study contract into the performance and integration feasibility of a rotor-wing variant of Brimstone, the MoD opted to use Lockheed-Martin's AGM-179 Joint Air-to-Ground Missile as the primary weapon of the AH-64E, with the K1 and Romeo variants of the Hellfire also being used.

 

 

Specifications

 

Crew: 2 
Length: 17.57m 
Height: 4.9m 
Rotor Diameter: 14.63m 
Weight: 7746kg 

Maximum Operating Weight: 10432kg
Maximum Speed: up to 330kph 

Engine: 2 x T700-GE-701D  (max 2000 SHP each)

 

Weaponry

 

1 x 30mm cannon, 1200 rounds 

72 x Hydra rockets 

16 x AGM-179 JAGM

16 x AGM-114K1

16 x AGM-114R

 

16 x FAHW (developed, not used)

4 x ATASK (developed, not used)

 

Justifying Brimstone

 

 

The Air-to-Air variant of the Starstreak missile (ATASK) hasn't entered service and as such will never be used on the AH Mk.1, yet in-game the AH Mk.1 gets it as a modification. I'm not complaining, I realise it was the best option for an AAM on the helicopter, but I believe this has set a precedent for weaponry developed for a helicopter, but not used on it, to be equipped to said helicopter in game. As such, I believe both the ATASK and FAHW Brimstone missiles should be available on the UK's AH-64E.

 

The FAHW Brimstone variant is capable of Semi-Active Laser (SAL) guidance, mm wave radar guidance (mmW), or a combination of the two. I believe that the missile should be laser guided until its terminal stage, at which point it switches to mmW guidance. This would allow for fire-and-forget only at close range, which would reduce the travel time of SAMs to hit the helicopter and greatly increase risk (where the Tiger UHT can acquire a target, fire, then get behind cover at any range up to 7km). At longer ranges a laser lock would have to be maintained until that terminal stage, keeping the helicopter visible for longer and allowing the enemy team more time to notice the aircraft and get to cover or try to take it out. If the SAL+mmW guidance proves to give the helicopter an excessive efficiency, SAL-only guidance is an option.

 

 

Brimstone Specifications

 

Mass: 50kg

Length: 1.8m

Diameter: 180mm

Guidance: SAL+mmW Radar

Firing Range: 20km (should be reduced in-game for balance purposes)
Explosive Mass: 6.3kg (100g initial charge, 6.2kg main charge)
Warhead Type: HEAT (tandem)

Fuse: Impact, Delay, and Proximity

 

 

Other AH-64E Suggestions (They could have some details that I missed/omitted):

LONGCASTER, for the US tree

Miki_Hoshii, for the Chinese tree

 

Sources:

Spoiler

AH-64E Info/Specs: 
https://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/aircraft/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache#AH-64E
https://www.boeing.com/defense/ah-64-apache/#/technical
https://www.geaviation.com/sites/default/files/datasheet-T700-701D.pdf
AH-64E News: 
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2020/11/new-apache-helicopter/
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2022/01/new-apache-attack-helicopter-enters-service/
https://www.boeing.co.uk/news-media-room/news-releases/2022/january/boeing-expands-uk-military-support-with-apache-ah-64e.page?#:
JAGM Adoption (and Hellfire variants):
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-selects-jagm-for-apache
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-confirms-jagm-missile-for-ah-64e-apache-fleet/
Brimstone Specifications:
https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/brimstone/ (Future Attack Helicopter Weapon PDF)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile)
https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/brimstone/

Brimstone Live Fire Trial:
https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-demonstrates-brimstone-missile-live-firing-from-apache-helicopter/

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by SentinelXCIX
Added brimstone flight path image

[Headnaught 502]

Approved and open for discussion.

[Sophie rose 224]

+1 

I hope see that but at least 12.0 Br 

[TwitchyNGL 595]

I'm not sure if AH-64E is actually capable of using Starstreaks? 

[Milocat 4,848]

+1, would be a great addition to the British helicopter tree.

[_Froge_ 30]

54 minutes ago, TwitchyTrooper said:

I'm not sure if AH-64E is actually capable of using Starstreaks? 

 

The US scrapped plans to integrate ATASK, seen in this abstract, in 2004, and as far as I'm aware the AH Mk.1 has never used ATASK missiles either. However, the AH Mk.1 does get them in-game (as mentioned in the post, probably because it never used ATAS either?) despite this, so I feel the AH-64E would be justified in getting them as well. Brimstone (which I would personally prefer as the main/top weapon of the AH-64E) can track targets up to 70mph (~110kph) according to MBDA, which is inadequate for dealing with most aircraft in-game and kind of necessitates a dedicated AAM.

 

As a side note, Starstreak II was revealed in 2007, a few years after the US abandoned ATASK integration and 6 years after the AH Mk.1 entered service, which is why I felt that it would be feasible for the AH-64E to get it as an upgraded ATASK variant.

 

If you have other AAM suggestions I'd be happy to hear them, and I'll try and keep an eye out in case the MoD decides to procure ATAS missiles (or even revive ATASK integration/development)
 

12 hours ago, __Olivia said:

+1 

I hope see that but at least 12.0 Br 

 

I see where you're coming from with 12.0, and if Brimstone were implemented as it performs irl it would definitely be justified. Being able to fire a salvo at 16 separate targets from up to 20km away with active radar guidance would be game-breaking, which is why I suggested toning down the capabilities of the missile if it's added. Then again, I wouldn't complain if BRs were expanded and we got a little more decompression...

Edited August 1, 2022 by SentinelXCIX

[TerikG2014 1,389]

On 01/08/2022 at 18:08, SentinelXCIX said:

The US scrapped plans to integrate ATASK, seen in this abstract, in 2004, and as far as I'm aware the AH Mk.1 has never used ATASK missiles either. However, the AH Mk.1 does get them in-game (as mentioned in the post, probably because it never used ATAS either?) despite this, so I feel the AH-64E would be justified in getting them as well. Brimstone (which I would personally prefer as the main/top weapon of the AH-64E) can track targets up to 70mph (~110kph) according to MBDA, which is inadequate for dealing with most aircraft in-game and kind of necessitates a dedicated AAM.

So witht the ATASK it was never used in service on the AH Mk1 but we do have proof of trials use of it on apaches.

[_Froge_ 30]

1 hour ago, TerikG2014 said:

So witht the ATASK it was never used in service on the AH Mk1 but we do have proof of trials use of it on apaches.

 

Well that makes things a little awkward, though I kind of like the idea of it being a sidegrade in that regard - trading ATASK for Brimstone. A lack of AAM would be punishing though...

[kingoftigertank 73]

would be nice too see brimstone, but might be a tad strong

[EL337GH0ST 195]

+1 if Brimstone was at least tested on this specific variant (AH-64E, NOT AH Mk1) and only if the US AH-64E gets Spike NLOS or some missile better than Brimstone (so they rightfully have a better Apache that is their own vehicle), -1 for Starstreak as it was never even tested nor planned to use it

[_Froge_ 30]

21 hours ago, EL337GH0ST said:

+1 if Brimstone was at least tested on this specific variant (AH-64E, NOT AH Mk1) and only if the US AH-64E gets Spike NLOS or some missile better than Brimstone (so they rightfully have a better Apache that is their own vehicle), -1 for Starstreak as it was never even tested nor planned to use it

 

Brimstone was tested on the AH-64E as part of an integration feasibility study (third image is of a Brimstone test fire, and the last link in my sources is about the test firing as well) as part of the Future Attack Helicopter Weapon program, to decide on the main weapon to be used on the AH-64E.

 

The MoD have announced that they plan to go for the JAGM over Brimstone, but I’m advocating for Brimstone as it’s UK-developed and will hopefully make the UK AH-64E a little more unique, as they won’t be making as many changes to the aircraft as they had with the AH Mk.1. And if, as yourself and others have pointed out, ATASK isn’t viable for the AH-64E then possibly trading AAMs for a more capable missile isn’t the worst idea.

 

The US version could get the AGM-179, but that entered service earlier this year so might be awkward to find specifications for, though it seems to have similar capabilities (including SAL+mmW guidance) as Brimstone, with both sharing the same mass and dimensions, though the JAGM seems to have a max range of 8km (as at 2014).

[EL337GH0ST 195]

1 hour ago, SentinelXCIX said:

The US version could get the AGM-179, but that entered service earlier this year so might be awkward to find specifications for, though it seems to have similar capabilities (including SAL+mmW guidance) as Brimstone, with both sharing the same mass and dimensions, though the JAGM seems to have a max range of 8km (as at 2014).

JAGM seems like a copy of the Hellfire, I don't even know why they're producing it instead of just more Hellfires...in-game I doubt it would be any different. US AH-64E should get Spike NLOS if the British one gets Brimstone, considering the most similar missile to the Brimstone (the AGM-169) wasn't accepted for service and wasn't tested on AH-64E.

[Epsilon160 270]

15 minutes ago, EL337GH0ST said:

JAGM seems like a copy of the Hellfire, I don't even know why they're producing it instead of just more Hellfires...in-game I doubt it would be any different. US AH-64E should get Spike NLOS if the British one gets Brimstone, considering the most similar missile to the Brimstone (the AGM-169) wasn't accepted for service and wasn't tested on AH-64E.

JAGM Increment 1 is simply a more comprehensive seeker, including SAL and MMW. JAGM Increment 2 is a dumbed down version of JCM, with a tri-mode seeker including IR for terminal guidance only, 12km range, improved warhead. JAGM Increment 3 is basically JCM but without fixed wing integration, full tri-mode seeker, 16km range, selectable fuze warhead.

 

Right now we have JAGM Increment 1, which is just meant to simplify things by replacing all HELLFIRE variants with a single missile by combining seeker functionality. It wouldn't be useful in-game because the devs are reluctant to add MMW guidance for balance reasons, and it has no other improvements over HELLFIRE Romeo. JCM would be much more useful just because it has the range and full tri-mode seeker functionality in its current form.

 

Spoiler

Edited August 9, 2022 by Epsilon160

[AVROVULCANXH558 349]

+1 for the British Heli tree with both JAGM and Brimstone (with SAL and MMW). Considering that some are reworked AH.1s, these should be given ATASK as well. 

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1 

[QuickerThanU 30]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/780384/February-desider-v2.pdf

+1

[CokeSpray 7,272]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.