✡︎History, Design, and Performance of Israeli Air-to-Air Missiles

[Flame2512 3,384]

On 05/10/2022 at 01:54, DracoMindC said:

Rafael Python 3

• G overloads: 
  • Launch Limit: N/A
  • Target Maneuvering Limit: 9g
  • Missile Maneuvering Limit: 35g Lateral, 50g Dual Plane, and 17 degrees AoA

 

Isn't the PL-8 (that as far as I know is pretty much a Pyrhon 3)  40g in game. Has anyone bug reported that?

[MiG_23M 1,684]

8 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

Isn't the PL-8 (that as far as I know is pretty much a Pyrhon 3)  40g in game. Has anyone bug reported that?

New sources suggest it is 35G overload, not 40G.

[DracoMindC 317]

44 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

Isn't the PL-8 (that as far as I know is pretty much a Pyrhon 3)  40g in game. Has anyone bug reported that?

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1ydtcO6X9EEw already been reported

[DracoMindC 317]

An update on the Python 3/PL-8 G limit

 

It will remain 40g:

 

@yoyolast Do you know what these other sources are I'm assuming one of them was the advert you showed earlier

[ÖL 613]

5 hours ago, DracoMindC said:

An update on the Python 3/PL-8 G limit

 

It will remain 40g:

 

@yoyolast Do you know what these other sources are I'm assuming one of them was the advert you showed earlier

Funny because ive read the python 3 have 40g on the statscard but was 30g in the datamines..

[yoyolast 1,708]

6 hours ago, DracoMindC said:

An update on the Python 3/PL-8 G limit

 

It will remain 40g:

 

@yoyolast Do you know what these other sources are I'm assuming one of them was the advert you showed earlier

I'm not a technical moderator and in general if it's sources the devs have directly I don't think any forum staff would necessarily have them. The advert could indeed be one of those but seeing as there really are conflicting reports on it's G pull capability I would have to say that it's really up to the devs to decide at this point, as they have.

[DracoMindC 317]

A bunch of Israeli aircraft just received the Python 3 in the dev

[ÖL 613]

finally

[DracoMindC 317]

The Kurnass 2000 got them aswell but it has lost its AIM-7 sparrows and dropped to 11.3 BR

[IronHorseActual 5]

Wonder if there is a BVR option on the table (with implementation in the next six months) for Israel now that it doesn't have one for 11.3 to 12.0...

[DracoMindC 317]

It seems Python 3s got a flare resistance nerf in the form of a 3.6 degree FOV like the AIM-9L rather than the previous smaller 2.5 degree FOV, I've never seen a source mention 3.6 degrees as the FOV so im curious where its from

[MiG_23M 1,684]

11 hours ago, DracoMindC said:

It seems Python 3s got a flare resistance nerf in the form of a 3.6 degree FOV like the AIM-9L rather than the previous smaller 2.5 degree FOV, I've never seen a source mention 3.6 degrees as the FOV so im curious where its from

AIM-9L is in the process of being buffed as such that it will not be flared when target's afterburner plume is visible to the missile and the Python 3 / PL-8 should see similar buff.

It comes from a British manual claiming it is not usually decoyed when an afterburner plume is present.

 

The 3.6 degree field of view is a temporary nerf, but the AIM-9L already still has a 90% pK in rear aspect on afterburning targets in my testing.

[panzerv0r 7]

14 hours ago, DracoMindC said:

The Kurnass 2000 got them aswell but it has lost its AIM-7 sparrows and dropped to 11.3 BR

As much as I appreciate Pythons being added, the removal of AIM-7s from the Kurnass 2000 is an unjustified travesty. Will take it from the best Phantom to basically unplayable. Wtf.

[ÖL 613]

3 hours ago, MiG_23M said:

AIM-9L is in the process of being buffed as such that it will not be flared when target's afterburner plume is visible to the missile and the Python 3 / PL-8 should see similar buff.

It comes from a British manual claiming it is not usually decoyed when an afterburner plume is present.

 

The 3.6 degree field of view is a temporary nerf, but the AIM-9L already still has a 90% pK in rear aspect on afterburning targets in my testing.

What do you mean by the 3.6 fov is temporary? For the aim 9L or the python 3?

 

After playing with the python in a custom battle for 3 hours yesterday i gotta say the aim 9L will be more effective for the average engagement. Longer range, bigger gimbal limit and better flsre resistance.

[MiG_23M 1,684]

3 hours ago, ÖL said:

What do you mean by the 3.6 fov is temporary? For the aim 9L or the python 3?

 

After playing with the python in a custom battle for 3 hours yesterday i gotta say the aim 9L will be more effective for the average engagement. Longer range, bigger gimbal limit and better flsre resistance.

I did not say the 3.6 degree field of view is temporary.

 

The AIM-9L and Python 3 have the same flare resistance, the Python 3 has much much faster acceleration and gives less time to react, is a much more maneuverable missile and roughly equal range to the AIM-9L.

[tripod2008 593]

19 hours ago, IronHorseActual said:

Wonder if there is a BVR option on the table (with implementation in the next six months) for Israel now that it doesn't have one for 11.3 to 12.0...

Probably the F-15A, but with the F-14B being a thing who knows what the plan was supposed to be.

[ÖL 613]

1 hour ago, MiG_23M said:

I did not say the 3.6 degree field of view is temporary.

 

The AIM-9L and Python 3 have the same flare resistance, the Python 3 has much much faster acceleration and gives less time to react, is a much more maneuverable missile and roughly equal range to the AIM-9L.

its right there in the quote, you said its a temporary nerf

[MiG_23M 1,684]

6 minutes ago, ÖL said:

its right there in the quote, you said its a temporary nerf

I don't think you understood what was said or can't directly correlate the fact that the AIM-9L should not be decoyed by flares when in the presence of an afterburner plume to the fact that they gave the Python 3 and AIM-9L very similar seekers.

[ÖL 613]

2 minutes ago, MiG_23M said:

I don't think you understood what was said or can't directly correlate the fact that the AIM-9L should not be decoyed by flares when in the presence of an afterburner plume to the fact that they gave the Python 3 and AIM-9L very similar seekers.

im not questioning if its supposed to be decoyed or not, im asking about the "temporary fov nerf". werent you the one reporting that the fov should be bigger than it was previously?

[MiG_23M 1,684]

54 minutes ago, ÖL said:

im not questioning if its supposed to be decoyed or not, im asking about the "temporary fov nerf". werent you the one reporting that the fov should be bigger than it was previously?

If you are going to put what I said in quotes, don't misquote me.

 

I said the increased field of view is a temporary nerf this should imply that the flare resistance is reduced currently but this is erroneous (not because the FOV is wrong, but because it's resistance to flares is worsened by this change). Documents came up after the fact that suggest it should not be decoyed by flares when tracking a reheat plume. If they are making the seekers identical this change should spread across to the Python 3 / PL-8 and thus the FOV reducing flare resistance is a "temporary nerf".

 

I am not sure how else to word this so if this doesn't clarify what you should have already been able to deduce from the prior statements then I will refrain from trying to elaborate further.

[ÖL 613]

6 minutes ago, MiG_23M said:

If you are going to put what I said in quotes, don't misquote me.

 

I said the increased field of view is a temporary nerf this should imply that the flare resistance is reduced currently but this is erroneous (not because the FOV is wrong, but because it's resistance to flares is worsened by this change). Documents came up after the fact that suggest it should not be decoyed by flares when tracking a reheat plume. If they are making the seekers identical this change should spread across to the Python 3 / PL-8 and thus the FOV reducing flare resistance is a "temporary nerf".

 

I am not sure how else to word this so if this doesn't clarify what you should have already been able to deduce from the prior statements then I will refrain from trying to elaborate further.

how is it a misquote if i quote what you said? damn youre so sensetive man. why would the python 3 and aim 9l seekers have anything to do with eachother anyways? theyre not identical on the server either. the aim 9L has a larger gimbal limit

[MiG_23M 1,684]

2 hours ago, ÖL said:

how is it a misquote if i quote what you said? damn youre so sensetive man. why would the python 3 and aim 9l seekers have anything to do with eachother anyways? theyre not identical on the server either. the aim 9L has a larger gimbal limit

English is clearly not your first language, I don't think you should stop following anything I say unless you can learn to speak it better. You didn't quote me, you rearranged the words and pulled only a specific sentence from a larger text simply because you did not understand what was being said in the first place.

 

The seeker is identical in field of view, rangebands, and the PL-8 / Python 3's track rate is only 2 deg/s lower (it's track rate was not changed). Therefore, due to the testable and discernible factors regarding the flare resistance... the Python 3 and AIM-9L are identical in performance. When Gaijin fixes the sensitivity to flares for such missiles they should not go for decoys when tracking an active reheat plume.

[ÖL 613]

47 minutes ago, MiG_23M said:

English is clearly not your first language, I don't think you should stop following anything I say unless you can learn to speak it better. You didn't quote me, you rearranged the words and pulled only a specific sentence from a larger text simply because you did not understand what was being said in the first place.

Tell me exactly where did i rearrange your words? And whats with your attitude? 

also i understand that the rangeband values and the fov are identical, im wondering why would they be that? on what do they base their conclusion that the python 3 seeker and the aim 9L seeker has the same abilities in that regard? its not the same seeker obviously since all other stats are different.

[ACOMETS 977]

5 minutes ago, ÖL said:

Tell me exactly where did i rearrange your words? And whats with your attitude? 

also i understand that the rangeband values and the fov are identical, im wondering why would they be that? on what do they base their conclusion that the python 3 seeker and the aim 9L seeker has the same abilities in that regard? its not the same seeker obviously since all other stats are different.

First : he is not a dev and does not have all the answers for you 

second : this still is dev server and work in progress so no conclusion , any problems and you report it and then tag a mod to review it as a priority if they see it as one 

and lastly , they developed the missile probably from western missiles such as magic and 9L , see how it matches against magic 2 also 

[ÖL 613]

1 minute ago, ACOMETS said:

First : he is not a dev and does not have all the answers for you 

second : this still is dev server and work in progress so no conclusion , any problems and you report it and then tag a mod to review it as a priority if they see it as one 

and lastly , they developed the missile probably from western missiles such as magic and 9L , see how it matches against magic 2 also 

i know he is not a mod, he is Dwight Shrute