22nd Canadian Armoured Regiment 20mm Stuart VI (Field Mod)

[Thatz 635]

This is a bit of an obscure field mod and the information on this I can only find 1-2 reports on this field mod.

The reports were written by Major A. G. Sangster. Sangster was the same person that wrote the report on the rocket staghound and the halftrack mounted with rockets.

The 20mm turretless Stuart VI came to reality because the 22nd Canadian Armoured Regiment thought it would be a solution to an issue that I cant even thing they had. But from what I can think is that the CO wanted a Stuart Recce but still having some sort of firepower so they created this.

Report:

Spoiler

Report 1:


Report 2:


Page 2 of Report 2:

The report mentions photographs but I was unable to find this and I have spent many evenings looking through the archives attempting to find it with no luck. There is a chance this photo is in the Canadian Archives someplace and if somebody finds it please let me know and feel free to post it here. But there's also a chance the photo was lost somehow and is gone forever.

Just to confirm this is not a Stuart VI recce since they cut most of the turret off in the field so as some recces had the whole top armour removed some had just the turret.

 

These reports were sent to the Canadian Headquarters in London England from the First Canadian AFV(T) Staff the report was titled Report No. 8 and was sent on May 15th 1945

Since It was just a Stuart VI with most of its turret cut off we can assume some of the specs of the vehicle since I was unable to find anymore information on this field mod. We can assume the specs of the chassis would be the same even if most of the turret weight would be removed.

Chassis specs (taken from:https://wiki.warthunder.com/Stuart_VI_(5th_CAD)_(USA)) :
Hull armour: 

• Front: 28mm
• Side 28mm
• Back 25mm

Seems like there would still be a bit of armour in the front but I'm not sure what armour thickness there would be so this is just my assumption 

Crew: Unknown but we can assume maybe 3-4  

Max speed: 58km/h

Armament:
20mm Hispano (unknown which model as we do not know what wrecked aircraft they took the gun from)

Ammo: Unknown

Ammo count: Unknown

If anybody can find anymore information on this field mod please feel free to share it.

Sources (all included also as photos in the suggestion):
All sources are from:
Title: Canadian Military Headquarters, London (CMHQ), Files Block No. 55 - 5777
Document source: Library and Archives Canada / Bibliothèque et Archives Canada

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_c5777/1906

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_c5777/1933

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_c5777/1934

Edited November 18, 2022 by Thatz

[kleinerPanzer 647]

Open for discussion 

[lLiberté 345]

  Very interesting find, this could be akin to early German 20mm Flakpanzers for British TT, +1.

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

If more information about this can be found, I support it totally. Feels just a bit incomplete as it is now, through no fault of your own.

[Thatz 635]

On 21/11/2022 at 02:37, JamesPond1200@psn said:

If more information about this can be found, I support it totally. Feels just a bit incomplete as it is now, through no fault of your own.

Yeah I've been digging through these archived microfilms here and there without any luck on finding more info

[Milocat 4,848]

+1, would be an awesome unique modification to add to the game!  

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

7 hours ago, Thatz said:

Yeah I've been digging through these archived microfilms here and there without any luck on finding more info

I wish you luck!

[hydroxideblue 88]

Your light tank will make a fine addition to my collection. Definitely would be a cool piece of kit at BR 1.3

Edited January 10, 2023 by hydroxideblue

[Thatz 635]

I think I found another reference to it:
From: Canadian Military Headquarters, London (CMHQ), Files Block No. 55 - 5780 image 164 https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oocihm.lac_reel_c5780/164
3rd paragraph, last sentence

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Thatz

[Kingtiez@live 606]

+1, Always a place for more Canadian vehicles 

[Thatz 635]

I will be trying to reach out to the Canadian Archives and Canadian Department of National Defense to see if maybe I can request information on this and a few other vehicles.

[G1label 143]

36 minutes ago, Thatz said:

I will be trying to reach out to the Canadian Archives and Canadian Department of National Defense to see if maybe I can request information on this and a few other vehicles.

I would love to hear more about some of there more obscure projects like this and the 17pdr sexton.

[Thatz 635]

17 hours ago, G1label said:

I would love to hear more about some of there more obscure projects like this and the 17pdr sexton.

Never heard of the 17pdr sexton until now, ill have to look more into it

[G1label 143]

1 hour ago, Thatz said:

Never heard of the 17pdr sexton until now, ill have to look more into it

Somebody made a suggestion on it a while ago:

Another strange projec I had heard about is a supposed grizzly based tank destroyer with a 3.7inch gun.

[Thatz 635]

Found some new Information taken from 22nd Armoured Regiment war Diaries (not in any order):
 

 

 

RG24-C-3, Volume number: 14261, Microfilm reel number: T-12727--T-12728, File number: 953
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=5110100
RG24-C-3, Volume number: 14262, Microfilm reel number: T-12729, File number: 953
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=1068549

Edited March 1, 2023 by Thatz

[CaID 8,992]

11 minutes ago, Thatz said:

...

what would be a gem to find would be a graphic representation of the tank. a photo or a drawing or a schematic would be great

Edited March 1, 2023 by CaID

[Thatz 635]

29 minutes ago, CaID said:

what would be a gem to find would be a graphic representation of the tank. a photo or a drawing or a schematic would be great

There are photos somewhere and I hope their weren't destroyed, but I need to wait a few weeks to have my inquiry with the Canadian Library and Archives to be looked at.

[CaID 8,992]

Just now, Thatz said:

There are photos somewhere and I hope their weren't destroyed, but I need to wait a few weeks to have my inquiry with the Canadian Library and Archives to be looked at.

no archive photo are ever destroy in the Canadian archive. at least not purposely.

 

basically it was a Stuart VI recce with a 20mm instant of the machine-gun? like one of those?

[Thatz 635]

2 minutes ago, CaID said:

basically it was a Stuart VI recce with a 20mm instant of the machine-gun? like one of those?

Somewhat from what I can understand from the report is that not the whole turret was removed and some of it left there to be armour, you can get a bit of a description from Major A. G. Sangster's reports in my initial post.
 

 

5 minutes ago, CaID said:

no archive photo are ever destroy in the Canadian archive. at least not purposely.

 

True its just hard as heck to locate and get information as a lot of the military archives I find are stored in Ottawa and I'm not from Ottawa so I'm unable to go in-person.

[CaID 8,992]

7 minutes ago, Thatz said:

Somewhat from what I can understand from the report is that not the whole turret was removed and some of it left there to be armour, you can get a bit of a description from Major A. G. Sangster's reports in my initial post.
 

 

True its just hard as heck to locate and get information as a lot of the military archives I find are stored in Ottawa and I'm not from Ottawa so I'm unable to go in-person.

you asked Harold J Skaarup?

 

he was the officer in charge of the Canadian military monument back when i started my military service. i meet him in CFB gagetown back in 2010. he is also the author of the book "Iron-side" and military historian. he is now retired but he probably can tell you where to look.

 

at some instant, if he allow it, i would even dare a phone call. i saw he live in Fredericton now. but i didn't have his contact. i believe his Email address can be found around

Edited March 2, 2023 by CaID

[Thatz 635]

13 minutes ago, CaID said:

you asked Harold J Skaarup?

 

he was the officer in charge of the Canadian military monument back when i started my military service. i meet him in CFB gagetown back in 2010. he is also the author of the book "Iron-side" and military historian. he is now retired but he probably can tell you where to look.

 

at some instant, if he allow it, i would even dare a phone call. i saw he live in Fredericton now. but i didn't have his contact. i believe his Email address can be found around

I see his email address on his website, I'll try to reach out and hopefully I can find some information or photos.

[CaID 8,992]

Just now, Thatz said:

I see his email address on his website, I'll try to reach out and hopefully I can find some information or photos.

i am sure that he can either indicate you where you will find what you need or if we are lucky, he will already know quit a bit. that guy is the one that inspired me to do research. i even try to work with him before he got retired but i didn't had the proper rank for the opening. i could had learn so much from him.

[Thatz 635]

Found out it was also brought along to Operation Blockbuster:

Seems like this was the last time I can find the tank was mentioned in the war diaries
22nd Armoured Regiment (Canadian Grenadier Guards)
Date:1945/02-1945/04

Reference:RG24-C-3, Volume number: 14262, Microfilm reel number: T-12729, File number: 953

Item 4 page 7
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=fonandcol&IdNumber=1068549&q=22nd Canadian Armoured Regiment

[Thatz 635]

On 01/03/2023 at 18:07, CaID said:

no archive photo are ever destroy in the Canadian archive. at least not purposely.

This might be the case where the photos are misplaced or missing. I'm still in contact with him and a few other people in a group email so hopefully we can find something. One of them stated "In my experience, if they are not with the report, you are in trouble." So I'll keep my hopes up and keep looking around.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Thatz

[Thatz 635]

Update: The search for photos is delayed a bit as the box that I think contains the reports that I hope has the photos is currently in a off-site vault that will remain closed until late August as they are moving archival material to a new storage facility