Tornado IDS Marineflieger - AS.34 Kormoran Missile capabilities

[CAPELETTI 43]

I realized that the trajectory of the AS-34 Kormoran missile should be less generic, among some researched files, it was found that the AS-34 has predetermined methods of propagation to reach the target. The active radar homing head consisting of an antenna with a mechanical scanning device, a receiver and a signal processing unit. It doesn't start working until it reaches the target area, where the missile is guided with the help of an inertial guidance system. According to the flight program, at 12-15 km from the target, the missile gains altitude (from 10-15 to several hundred meters) to allow the homing head to detect and lock onto the target (according to foreign press reports , in field tests, the probability of blocking the target by the active head of missiles such as Harpoon, Exocet and Kormoran was about 99 percent).

The head of the West German Kormoran anti-ship missile also contains a search receiver, which is turned on in the terminal phase of the flight and searches for the radiation-emitting target. If a target fixation is made, the missile is guided by this receiver, while if no emission is detected, the active radar is triggered in the head.

 

The Kormoran air-to-surface anti-ship missile, a collaboration of MBB and Aerospatiale, has been ordered by the German Navy and possibly can also be used in the MRCA (multi-purpose combat system). -level system with three different guidance systems: anti-radiation, active radar and IR homing. The missile is launched when the flying aircraft is at a low level and there is compatibility equipment on board to relate the position of the aircraft at launch to that of the target in order to allow the onboard inertial navigation system to guide the missile towards to the target. target. the target at low altitude.

 

 

In figure 1

1- the transporter plane;

2- launch the missile and put the plane back on course; (Relate the aircraft's position at launch to that of the target to allow the onboard inertial navigation system to guide the missile towards the target).

3- a marching area; (predetermined rendezvous path, the radar altimeter provides the precise altitude data needed for the
extreme low level flight).

4- search and capture of targets; On Order (Search receiver; AS-34 against radiation emitter, otherwise active radar; AS-34 against target by Doppler phenomenon)

5- guided; Passive guidance system (Anti-Radiation Mode) or active (by doppler)

6- target;

7- Missile deflection due to an inertial guidance system error.

 

In figure 10
Given the location of the target, it follows a linear path towards the target through the inertial navigation system, reaching the distance fixed in the memory, the system turns on the Search Receiver (Functioning as an anti-radiation missile character ) and if not there is emission to detect, the active radar system is on and then the missile is guided by the doppler effect (which may corroborate with the idea of locking on targets on the ground, perhaps with poor accuracy ).

 

 

ADA373042.pdf ADA357156.pdf

Edited January 6, 2023 by CAPELETTI
typo

[CAPELETTI 43]

The automatic translator reverted the language in the edit
 

[Godvana 533]

25 minutes ago, CAPELETTI said:

Percebi que a trajetória do míssil AS-34 Kormoran deveria ser menos genérica, dentre alguns arquivos pesquisados, constatou-se que o AS-34 possui métodos pré-determinados de propagação para atingir o alvo. O cabeçote de homing do radar ativo que consiste em uma antena com um dispositivo de varredura mecânica, um receptor e uma unidade de processamento de sinal. Ele não começa a funcionar até atingir a área do alvo, onde o míssil é guiado com a ajuda de um sistema de orientação inercial. De acordo com o programa de voo, a 12-15 km do alvo, o míssil ganha altitude (de 10-15 a várias centenas de metros) para permitir que o homing head detecte e trave o alvo (de acordo com relatos da imprensa estrangeira, em testes de campo , a probabilidade de bloquear o alvo pela cabeça ativa de mísseis como Harpoon, Exocet e Kormoran era de cerca de 99 por cento).

A cabeça do míssil anti-navio Kormoran da Alemanha Ocidental também contém um receptor de busca, que é ligado na fase terminal do vôo e procura o alvo emissor de radiação. Se uma fixação de alvo for feita, o míssil é guiado por este receptor, enquanto se nenhuma emissão for detectada, o radar ativo é acionado na cabeça.

 

O míssil antinavio ar-superfície Kormoran, uma colaboração da MBB e da Aerospatiale, foi encomendado pela Marinha Alemã e possivelmente também pode ser usado no MRCA (sistema de combate multiuso). -sistema de nível com três sistemas de orientação diferentes: anti-radiação, radar ativo e homing IR. O míssil é lançado quando a aeronave voadora está em um nível baixo e há equipamentos de compatibilidade a bordo para relacionar a posição da aeronave no lançamento com a do alvo, a fim de permitir que o sistema de navegação inercial a bordo guie o míssil em direção ao alvo. alvo. o alvo em baixa altitude.

 

Na figura 1
 

1- o avião transportador; 

2- lançar o míssil e colocar o avião de volta no curso; (relacione a posição da aeronave no lançamento com a do alvo para permitir que o sistema de navegação inercial a bordo guie o míssil em direção ao alvo).

3- uma área de marcha; (caminho de encontro predeterminado, o altímetro do radar fornece os dados de altitude precisos necessários para o
vôo de baixo nível extremo).

4- busca e captura de alvos; On Order (Receptor de busca; AS-34 contra emissor de radiação, caso contrário, radar ativo; AS-34 contra alvo por fenômeno Doppler)

5- guiado; Sistema de orientação passiva (Modo Anti-Radiação) ou ativa (por doppler)

6- alvo;

7- Deflexão do míssil devido a um erro do sistema de orientação inercial.

 

Na figura 10
Dada a localização do alvo, segue um caminho linear em direção ao alvo por meio do sistema de navegação inercial, atingindo a distância fixada na memória, o sistema liga o Receptor de Busca (Funcionando como um caractere de míssil anti-radiação ) e se não houver emissão para detectar, o sistema de radar ativo está ligado e então o míssil é guiado pelo efeito doppler (o que pode corroborar com a ideia de travar em alvos no solo, talvez com pouca precisão ).

 

 

ADA373042.pdf ADA357156.pdf

 

I realised that the trajectory of the AS-34 Kormoran missile should be less generic, among some files researched, it was found that the AS-34 has predetermined methods of propagation to hit the target. The active radar homing head which consists of an antenna with a mechanical scanning device, a receiver and a signal processing unit. It does not start working until it reaches the target area, where the missile is guided with the help of an inertial guidance system. According to the flight programme, 12-15 km from the target, the missile gains altitude (from 10-15 to several hundred metres) to allow the homing head to detect and lock on to the target (according to foreign press reports, in field tests, the probability of locking on to the target by the active head of missiles like Harpoon, Exocet and Kormoran was about 99 percent).

 

The head of the West German Kormoran anti-ship missile also contains a homing receiver, which is switched on in the terminal phase of flight and searches for the radiation-emitting target. If a target lock is made, the missile is guided by this receiver, while if no emission is detected, the active radar is triggered in the head.

 

The Kormoran air-to-surface anti-ship missile, a collaboration between MBB and Aerospatiale, has been commissioned by the German Navy and could possibly also be used in the MRCA (multi-purpose combat system). -level system with three different guidance systems: anti-radiation, active radar and IR homing. The missile is launched when the flying aircraft is at a low level and there is on-board compatibility equipment to relate the position of the aircraft at launch to that of the target to enable the on-board inertial navigation system to guide the missile towards the target. the target at low altitude.

 

In figure 1:
 

1. the transporter aeroplane; 
2. launch the missile and put the aircraft back on course; (relate the position of the aircraft at launch to that of the target to allow the on-board inertial navigation system to guide the missile towards the target).
3. an area of march; (predetermined rendezvous path, the radar altimeter provides the accurate altitude data required for extreme low level flight).
4. search and target capture; On Order (Search receiver; AS-34 against radiation emitter, otherwise active radar; AS-34 against target by Doppler phenomenon).
5. guided; Passive (Anti-radiation mode) or active (by Doppler) guidance system
6. target;
7. missile deflection due to an inertial guidance system error.

 

In figure 10:

 

Given the location of the target, it follows a linear path towards the target by means of the inertial navigation system, reaching the distance fixed in the memory, the system turns on the Search Receiver (Functioning as an anti-radiation missile character) and if there is no emission to detect, the active radar system is on and then the missile is guided by the doppler effect (which may corroborate with the idea of locking on ground targets, perhaps with little precision).

 

Translated with DeepL

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

8 hours ago, CAPELETTI said:

The head of the West German Kormoran anti-ship missile also contains a search receiver, which is turned on in the terminal phase of the flight and searches for the radiation-emitting target. If a target fixation is made, the missile is guided by this receiver

So the Kormoran has a secondary anti radiation mode? Could it theoretically home in on SPAA radar like more purpose build ARM?

[CAPELETTI 43]

17 minutes ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

So the Kormoran has a secondary anti radiation mode? Could it theoretically home in on SPAA radar like more purpose build ARM?

This "Anti-Radiation" mode is from the Missile's own system, it first turns on a Passive receiver and if it does not find the emitter, the active radar in the head is turned on and guided by the echo of the moving target.
His chance to block on target was around 99%
 

[CAPELETTI 43]

To fire the Kormoran, the aircraft must be given a Position and Homing Indicator (PHI). Fire information is collected by the aircraft's radar, navigation system and sent to the Kormoram's computer. Without radar support, the PHI used a CCD (Computer Co-ordinated Data) and Vector Addition Unit (VAD) to pass the data to the missile.

 

That is, there is a way in which you can shoot the missile supposedly blindly, entering the coordinates in the missile calculator and the vector, through the Aircraft's radar, the AS-34 will go to the stipulated destination location. With the passive mode of the missile's radar (seen in some reports), it can be attracted by radiation emitters, and if there is no it triggers the active radar, the problem is that depending on the angle of attack of the missile it can go to infinity and beyond until you run out of fuel (Anti-ship Mode).
And depending on this AS.34 angle of attack, even if the active radar does not find an emitter or a target to lock onto, it will follow close to the location of the coordinates entered in the missile's calculator.
And due to the angle of attack, the missile is already losing altitude, remaining on the trajectory.
When activating the missile's radar, it will not find a target to lock on to, maintaining the trajectory.
Theoretically the Anti-Ship Missile can be used as a heavy ballistic rocket with approximately mach 0.9 on final input... XD.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by CAPELETTI

[CAPELETTI 43]

Even though the AS-34 was capable of hitting land targets, it was never intended as a cross-platform weapon, but only as an air-to-sea weapon.

 

 

[_Reardon_ 140]

2 hours ago, CAPELETTI said:

Even though the AS-34 was capable of hitting land targets, it was never intended as a cross-platform weapon, but only as an air-to-sea weapon.

 

 

i've read this around but what does it actually mean? what is a ground target? a tank? a building? how does it reach said target? 

[CAPELETTI 43]

2 minutes ago, _Reardon_ said:

i've read this around but what does it actually mean? what is a ground target? a tank? a building? how does it reach said target? 

The homing head on the West German Kormoran antiship missile also contains a
search receiver, which is switched on in the terminal phase of flight and
searches out the radiation-emitting target. If a target fix is made, the missile is guided by this receiver, while if no emission is detected, active radar
gear is switched on in the head.

[CAPELETTI 43]

I'm trying to look something up on the Thomson-CSF RE 576 active radar with two axis search that equips the nose of the AS.34 missile.
Heads that operate on the principle of parasite-based target detection electromagnetic radiation, I need to know if this is the case for AS.34.

 

I sent an email to the Thales group. I just doubt they answer anything

Edited January 7, 2023 by CAPELETTI

[CAPELETTI 43]

 

Reading some files, I found that the Tornado IDS can make use of the missile against ground targets

 

 

[CAPELETTI 43]

Found to be a good bet on the creation of AS.34 due to the Falklands war

After the drone revolution. What will be the 'non-obvious' revolution?
- Killer humanoid robots? 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by CAPELETTI

[Adamok2 755]

Great find @CAPELETTI Can i ask what is this document, or any link?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Adamok2

[CAPELETTI 43]

the previous post I got National Technical Reports Library and the others from the Defense Technical Information Center website.

 

Another day I look for the rest, these sites have almost nothing about kormoran, maybe something classified.
I'm not exactly sure what the name of the AS.34 Search Radar is and it's pretty hard to find anything technical about it.

[Adamok2 755]

 

Kormoran warhead:

 

c802 warhead:

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/modern-day-erebus-class-monitors-t22130-s60.html

 

https://view.inews.qq.com/k/20200512A0LLYL00?web_channel=wap&openApp=false&f=newdc

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[Ghost_Xiphidion 894]

We've definitely reached a point where there is enough documentation and evidence that should allow the weapon to be fired at ground targets like, at an absolute minimum, a dumb rocket.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Ghost_Xiphidion

[Adamok2 755]

Ladies as Gentleman, I found the VERY FIRST POSSIBLE SOURCE about kormoran WARHEAD - PATENT by itself.

Mass of P-charges described below should be included in "Explosive mass" in game - at the very least - that would be the easiest way imho.

 

English description: https://patents.google.com/patent/DE3701390A1/en

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[HeavyAir999 4]

I think we pretty much deserve to have a verdict right here. 

 

This is a TON of evidence for all the people that was saying opposite to the Air to ground capabilities of the AS.34 Kormoran and I don't know what else does Gaijing requires to give back the CAS option the Marineflieger was about to get.

 

So I hope they'll do something about it when they're back from NY vacation

[Adamok2 755]

2 minutes ago, HeavyAir999 said:

I think we pretty much deserve to have a verdict right here. 

 

This is a TON of evidence for all the people that was saying opposite to the Air to ground capabilities of the AS.34 Kormoran and I don't know what else does Gaijing requires to give back the CAS option the Marineflieger was about to get.

 

So I hope they'll do something about it when they're back from NY vacation

That's right.

 

Dear @Smin1080p could you do anything about that - there is no point to prolong this treat with that TONS of sources.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[Smin1080p 60,444]

Just now, Adamok2 said:

Dear @Smin1080p could you do anything about that?

 

We can pass properly submitted reports with evidence showing something missing, if that's the case, onto the developers yes. 

[Adamok2 755]

5 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

We can pass properly submitted reports with evidence showing something missing, if that's the case, onto the developers yes. 

So i will do a bug report soon. Thanks

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[Adamok2 755]

On 05/01/2023 at 22:12, Smin1080p said:

 

These are separate matters / issues relating to performance and should be reported independently. The report was for the addition of the Komoran 2.

@Smin1080p about report of kormoran 2,  @CAPELETTI  uploaded a PDF about kormoran 2.

 

On 06/01/2023 at 17:31, CAPELETTI said:

ADA373042.pdf

 

 

in this file we can read:

 

Patent which i found and which describes the P charges composition:
"Dabei ist in dem in Fig. 2 dargestellten Brandsatz 4 eine Kombination aus Zirkoniumkörpern angeordnet, welche zylindrische Form und unterschiedliche Durchmesser haben. Im erfindungsgemäßen Fall besteht der Brandschutz 4 aus 40 zylindrischen Zirkoniumkörpern 5 von 9 mm Durchmesser und einer Gesamtmasse von 5 g und 28 zylindrischen Zirkoniumkörpern 6 mit 13 mm Durchmesser und einer Masse von 132 g. Das Verhältnis sowie Geometrie und Masse sind einsatzspezifisch variierbar. Die Zirkoniumzylinder sind in ca. 300 g Kunstharzmasse eingegossen, welche nach Aushärten in die P-Ladungsmulden 3 des Gefechtskopfes eingeklebt sind. Der Gefechtskopf hat in dem hier gezeigten Falle 16 P-Ladungen, in deren Mulden die in Kunstharzmasse eingegossene Zirkoniumzylinder eingebracht werden."

 

 

 

So we can tell how much HE should Kormoran 2 have. Mass of this imho P charges should be added to explosive mass - that's the simplest way (bc it would be hard to make that those warheads works in game 1:1 as irl) in both missiles Kormoran 1 and 2.

 

Could you add this to the Bug report of @Godvana :

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[Smin1080p 60,444]

15 minutes ago, Adamok2 said:

@Smin1080p about report of kormoran 2,  @CAPELETTI  uploaded a PDF about kormoran 2.

 

 

in this file we can read:

 

Patent which i found and which describes the P charges composition:
"Dabei ist in dem in Fig. 2 dargestellten Brandsatz 4 eine Kombination aus Zirkoniumkörpern angeordnet, welche zylindrische Form und unterschiedliche Durchmesser haben. Im erfindungsgemäßen Fall besteht der Brandschutz 4 aus 40 zylindrischen Zirkoniumkörpern 5 von 9 mm Durchmesser und einer Gesamtmasse von 5 g und 28 zylindrischen Zirkoniumkörpern 6 mit 13 mm Durchmesser und einer Masse von 132 g. Das Verhältnis sowie Geometrie und Masse sind einsatzspezifisch variierbar. Die Zirkoniumzylinder sind in ca. 300 g Kunstharzmasse eingegossen, welche nach Aushärten in die P-Ladungsmulden 3 des Gefechtskopfes eingeklebt sind. Der Gefechtskopf hat in dem hier gezeigten Falle 16 P-Ladungen, in deren Mulden die in Kunstharzmasse eingegossene Zirkoniumzylinder eingebracht werden."

 

 

 

So we can tell how much HE should Kormoran 2 have. Mass of this imho P charges should be added to explosive mass - that's the simplest way (bc it would be hard to make that those warheads works in game 1:1 as irl) in both missiles Kormoran 1 and 2.

 

Could you add this to the Bug report of @Godvana :

 

 

The report by Godvana was a suggestion to add the Kormoran 2. Not a bug report on the performance.

 

Any issues or performance related matters of the existing Kormoran 1 should be reported seperatly as it's 1 issue per topic.

[Adamok2 755]

5 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

The report by Godvana was a suggestion to add the Kormoran 2. Not a bug report on the performance.

 

Any issues or performance related matters of the existing Kormoran 1 should be reported seperatly as it's 1 issue per topic.

But sources about explosive mass in warhead are an additional info to suggestion to add the Kormoran 2 so I asked to add those sources in the suggestion. That's my point - the more info the better.

 

I'm gonna make a bug report about kormoran's 1 warhead later.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Adamok2

[Hardmoor 2,196]

1 hour ago, Adamok2 said:

So we can tell how much HE should Kormoran 2 have. Mass of this imho P charges should be added to explosive mass - that's the simplest way (bc it would be hard to make that those warheads works in game 1:1 as irl) in both missiles Kormoran 1 and 2.

If the TOW2B can have 2 EFP charges, then I don't see why this one can't have 16