Argument for 262HG Series Aircraft

[One_More_Desu 23]

I'll start with some amble about why I'm interested in this topic;
Began playing the game for the soul purpose of flying the Me-262 in a semi casual environment. The concept of the unprecedented making it's first appearance in combat was something that was inspiring to me - caution to the wind in favor of progress against dire straits I think is a fantasy many of us have indulged in the past. The Me-262 represented to me the pinnacle of mankind's ability to make something truly special in the midst of the tragedy of war.

Why this is relevant;

War Thunder has a unique capacity to allow aircraft that had no real bearing in history to shine in ways that were otherwise impossible. As a German player first (later American for obvious 4th gen reasons), I'll list a couple of these examples that have brought me a lot of joy;

 

• He-100D1
  The 100D1 is a low production armed racing plane that used it's wings to help cool it's fluids and attain much higher speeds that it's contemporaries, but as a result made it unfit for combat. It's sleek and fast, and was the first aircraft I made my own skin for. I was a sprinter in my youth, and going faster was what appealed to me as it was a feeling I could relate to enjoying. This was the first aircraft that inspired me to care about my performance in combat and yet probably never saw combat in real life.

 

• Smegol's Arado Bomb Kills
  If you haven't seen them - Smegol Time! Arado Montage is a heroic example of how WT can make a lot of fun out of what has -no base in reality- whatsoever. I wouldn't be caught dead in a bomber, but this was still extremely entertaining as it captures the concept of possibility that WT offers.

 

• 262C series RATO use
  It's no secret that using the rocket boosters during flight as opposed to only during take-off is an aspect unique to WT, as in reality the dire need to ascend to altitude would have always trumped the extra pace in terms of mission success. Another Smegol Time! video for an example because I had his channel up - See2B. The use of the boosters in flight propelled the Me-262C2b to becoming one of the more overtiered aircraft in the game, as it was a favourite of exceptional players to do very nasty things in early jets.

 

The crux of the post;

Me-262HGI/II - The advanced for the time, high speed interceptor variants of the 262 had been announced in the past, and following changes to the stance on pre-production aircraft been left to the wayside in favour of a more realistic game setting. And my question is why?

 

We all know that G loading on all craft in the game is roughly 50% greater than what the craft could sustain in real life (ignoring prolonged airframe stress) and the eras in which many of the planes were built have no bearing on their opponents. Straight away this indicates that mirroring reality is not the primary focus of the game, as fundamental laws of what would make the game realistic have been ignored in favour of ease of access and enjoyment.

 

There are already extreme examples in arguing the extension of this idea, although they have already been commented on by WT staff as being not conducive to the game environment they desire (for whatever reason I disagree with). These being the Gotha 229 and R2Y2 series. The 229 was clearly just too cool of an idea for them to leave out in the earlier increments of the game (why else), and the R2 series being a necessity for a balanced Japanese tech tree. To give players a balanced environment and a "flagship" aircraft present as being the prior motivators for letting complete technical documentation requirements slide just that little bit to give them something fun and enjoyable. These motivators have lately been replaced with modern aircraft despite the egregious change in playtime commitment they ask of you.

 

The point;

Fun. Feeling cool. The Fantasy 1946 battles of a continued war that never took place. "What If" thought experiments are things we have all enjoyed before in the past that could be brought to life in WT. Their SL/RP modifiers could be 0% and I would still take the time to fly out in a HGII just because of how it would make me feel. If there is enough data out there to implement vehicles that are still under defense department non disclosure then it proves to us that foolproof documentation isn't a requirement for introducing an aircraft to the game. Northrup Grumman were praised throughout their firm's lifespan for being able to predict how an aircraft will perform long before it ever hit wind tunnel tests; a reputation they built before the internet and powerful computing existed. 

 

I don't want to hear arguments as to why X aircraft shouldn't be in the game - we are all capable of persuasive language to some extent, but I want to talk about how flying these and experiencing new situations they could bring would make you FEEL.

 

How would flying the HG series make you feel?

Why do you want to fly them?

What would you give up in order to have them in game?

Would you pay to have the HGI/II as a premium?

 

The final argument I'll make is that Gaijin are in control of the game. With that control they have the capacity to introduce these craft in a way that doesn't impact the realism other players might value while also benefiting from the playerbase interested in 'what if' scenarios. No I won't go and play a competitor game just because it has a craft that I want - I enjoy WT, I just want to go faster in my 262.

 

[Uncle J Wick@live 407]

21 hours ago, One_More_Desu said:

The final argument I'll make is that Gaijin are in control of the game.

 

First of all: Nice post!

 

From a business perspective i see little to zero chances to implement "paper planes" like the R2Y2 in the past - and they have often repeated that they won't go the way of an "alternate" history like Il2 1946.

 

They earn money with top tier jets. And the perfect mix of entertainment and frustration. 

 

And even if they would implement the HG variants - their BR setting policy has nothing to do with realism at all.

 

I am quite sure that a lot of people (me included) would pay a significant amount to implement more realism in Air RB (getting rid of too high g-forces and mouse aim, implementing actual historical fights <262 vs p-51D> and historical BR setting plus realistic damage model of ai tanks and pillboxes to name a few - and of course a skill based MM...), and maybe "alternate" history set-ups, but unfortunately these people would still be too few compared to the 70 mln registered users. So without a positive business case for gaijin, it is hopeless...

 

Nvm - good luck with your proposal and have a good one!

 

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,603]

On 12/02/2023 at 06:47, One_More_Desu said:

• He-100D1
  The 100D1 is a low production armed racing plane that used it's wings to help cool it's fluids and attain much higher speeds that it's contemporaries, but as a result made it unfit for combat. It's sleek and fast, and was the first aircraft I made my own skin for. I was a sprinter in my youth, and going faster was what appealed to me as it was a feeling I could relate to enjoying. This was the first aircraft that inspired me to care about my performance in combat and yet probably never saw combat in real life.

 

The He 100 was designed to be fighter from the onset, not racing.

 

I'd fly a 262HG, though it'd be put at a BR high enough where it would be a pain to play.

 

I'll just continue to fly the 262/Jabo

[Chomusuke1 1,219]

On 12/02/2023 at 06:47, One_More_Desu said:

100D1 is a low production armed racing plane that used it's wings to help cool it's fluids and attain much higher speed

 

The D series were not racing planes. Additionally, a conventional radiator replaced the cooling system:

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Chomusuke1

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

34 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Additionally, a conventional radiator replaced the cooling system:

 

The version with conventional radiator were never finished and scrapped at ~10% completion.

All finished He 100 were equipped with surface cooling. The radiator you see there is a retractable one for starts and landings when the air speed isnt sufficient for surface cooling alone

On 12/02/2023 at 12:47, One_More_Desu said:

The 100D1 is a low production armed racing plane

The He 100 was actually purpose built as a figher aircraft, with high speed was one design requirement

Even more, it got armed with preproduction MG 151/15 which speaks for its intent to see combat (I still wait to see that in WT, the 3 x MG 17 stayed on blueprints)

Edited February 16, 2023 by BagelIsMyWaifu

[Lord_Prism 1,826]

38 minutes ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

The version with conventional radiator were never finished and scrapped at ~10% completion.

All finished He 100 were equipped with surface cooling. The radiator you see there is a retractable one for starts and landings when the air speed isnt sufficient for surface cooling alone

The He 100 was actually purpose built as a figher aircraft, with high speed was one design requirement

Even more, it got armed with preproduction MG 151/15 which speaks for its intent to see combat (I still wait to see that in WT, the 3 x MG 17 stayed on blueprints)

A single MG 151/15 or multiple?

[Chomusuke1 1,219]

1 hour ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

The version with conventional radiator were never finished and scrapped at ~10% completion.

All finished He 100 were equipped with surface cooling.

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

49 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

A single MG 151/15 or multiple?

Single 151/15 firing through the propeller hub and the two MG 17 in the wing roots. MG 17 and MG 131 in the motor hub were abandoned because of lacking target effect

5 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

"The remaining 6 aircraft are to be equipped with a block cooler [the radiator]. These 6 machines are 10% finished, so further construction is not worth it. We recommend, the RLM will agree, that we dont contine building the aircraft. What has been build will be broken up and deducted."

Both from the official documentation by Heinkel on the He 100

[Chomusuke1 1,219]

2 hours ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

The remaining 6 aircraft are to be equipped with a block cooler [the radiator]

The remaining 6 what exactly? Versuchs (prototype) airframes, A to C series, D-0 series or the D-1?

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Chomusuke1

[Lord_Prism 1,826]

8 hours ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

Single 151/15 firing through the propeller hub and the two MG 17 in the wing roots. MG 17 and MG 131 in the motor hub were abandoned because of lacking target effect

Not bad, the 15mm is pretty punchy at times 

[Chris4win 366]

To get back to the topic:

 

I think the HG1 should be a modification for the me262A1a. It would be reason to play it instead of the jabo. 

 

I don´t know if HG2 meets Gaijins requirements.

But HG1 as modification would be cool to have and would give the me262 a small performance boost

Edited February 16, 2023 by Chris4win

[Ace_of_LuftWaffe 30]

Hello!
I would just like to ask if anybody knows what happened to the Me 262 HG serie. i know the Me 262 HGI is likely to come and the Me 262 HGII was passed for consideration but i just wanna know if it was approved by the devs which i highly doubt. It would be quite cool to see those birds in war thunder which were built and flown for the most part!

[Ace_of_LuftWaffe 30]

I would love to get 1946 machines into the game. However, the Me 262 HGI and Me 262 HGII are not paper aircrafts, both were built, with the HGI varient even taking flight a few times. The Me 262 HGII was built and a test flight was planned, it was damaged in a ground accident and couldn't be repaired before the end of the war.Therefore they fit within gaijin's current requirement for aircraft to come to the game. Gaijin could bring those aircraft to the game without agreeing to the 1946 thing.

[Fizzy_Elf1 125]

On 07/03/2023 at 17:03, Ace_of_LuftWaffe said:

Hello!
I would just like to ask if anybody knows what happened to the Me 262 HG serie. i know the Me 262 HGI is likely to come and the Me 262 HGII was passed for consideration but i just wanna know if it was approved by the devs which i highly doubt. It would be quite cool to see those birds in war thunder which were built and flown for the most part!

way, way back when gaijin truly cared about and not using a program that scraped data from vehicles and balanced using that, there was plans to add the me252hgs because germany really needed better post war jets. because at that time even the german sabers werent added yet. 

 

however with the introduction of the sabers and other planes the need for these jets more or less dried up, then gaijin had put a hard no on any project plane/paper plane and it truly died then.

 

however in the current state germany def needs better 7.7 planes. because the overtiered mess we got now aint fun.

[Uncle J Wick@live 407]

 

 

On 07/03/2023 at 23:03, Ace_of_LuftWaffe said:

I would just like to ask if anybody knows what happened to the Me 262 HG serie.

 

You might missed this thread:

 

 

 

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

On 16/02/2023 at 18:07, Chris4win said:

I don´t know if HG2 meets Gaijins requirements.

Why not?

We know how it looked, we know that it was finished or almost finished and it certainly was armed as well because the prototypes were converted from existing planes.

[Chris4win 366]

1 hour ago, NoodleCup31 said:

Why not?

We know how it looked, we know that it was finished or almost finished and it certainly was armed as well because the prototypes were converted from existing planes.

Don´t get me wrong, I would like to see it aswell with other planes like the vtol starfighter, but gaijin is gaijin. 

[Ace_of_LuftWaffe 30]

Honestly i would just like gaijin to tell us if they really plan to include it into the game, if it's in development or anything. Just waiting informations for your favorite aircraft for ages could drive anyone crazy lol