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Krupp-Daimler KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 mit 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 The grandfather of the Flakbus


Do you want the KD-I mit 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want it?

    • Yes, i do.
    • No, i dont.

I would like to suggest the KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 mit 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 pretty mucht the grandfather of the Flakbus.


The history behind it is a long path, starting in WW1 in 1918 going till somewhere befor or even in WW2.

In 1918 on basis of the KD-1 Artilleriezugmaschine (Artillery tractor) (from 1917 to 1918 were 1.159 produced) was the KD-I Geschützkraftwagen 19 build by equipping it with the 7,7 cm Flak L/27 (Used at that time the same ammo as the 7,7 cm FK 96 L/27 with about 465m/s) which was made in the beginning to mobilize the 7,7 cm Flak L/27 for anti aircraft and anti balloon usage, beeing able to escape enemy artillery fire, while also beeing effectively used as an mobile anti tank platform beeing able to quickly react to enemy attacks of Tanks. The Vehicle was regarded highly by the Reichswehr for its high usability as AA and AT vehicle, beeing even kept after the War.

Then in 1930 to 1932 the major switch from 7,7 cm (so enemy captured equipment such as french 75 and russian 76,2 mm guns could and were drilled out to accept german ammo, which even a wide range of different guns were mounted on these vehicles from L/27 to L/35.) to the "new" uniform 75mm guns, as such the whole 7,7 cm Flak L/27 was taken off its Sockellafette and the 7,5 cm FK 16 n.A. L/36 was put in its place, beeing an even more powerfull armarment which was even used till the end of  the war (also because of lack of alternatives). Overall 120 7,7 cm guns were accepted to be changed to 7,5 cm guns of which 80 were reserved for the KD-I even tho only 28 were officially allowed for germany.


Overall there were quite a lot of different guns and mountings used on them such as as above mentioned drilled out french and russian guns, but also going further than simple Sockellafetten going as far as mounting shields and even big turret arrays, but none of them where kept, only the by me suggested one with the 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 came to WW2. Further mentioning of them where in D 600 from 09.11.1935 and H.V.Bl. 1931 Nr 27 from 14.09.1931 where it was written that after using up all wheeles (still wooden wheels) new steel full rubber wheels are to be used.


Why i would like to see this vehicle? Old stuff can take a grip in game, but is still underrepresented and this is one of the vehicles which are actually quite good and will be quite usable (notice characteristics of the truck and gun below) Bringing an quite good Gun on a mobile chassis with similar playstyle ot the italian 100mm gun, but with greater effeciveness, otherwise the gun (essencially a 7,5 cm FK 16 n.A. L/36) would also have no place in game as it was not mounted on other vehicles to my knowlege (except in modified form on a DB Großtraktor) while it is also historically relevant in beeing the starting point of the stronger AT weapons for the german army, beeing set the golden standart in AT armarment, beeing the Basis for the 7,5 cm K. L/41 for the Pz.Sfl. II which later further develops into the KwK 40 and beeing one of the stronger AT guns used in the french attack.

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The Gun: 7,5 cm Flak 16 n.A. L/36 (a 7,5 cm FK n.A. L/36 in a Flak Sockellafette)

7,5 cm about 12-15 rpm -5 ° to +75° and 360° traverse

60 rounds of ammo across different containers around the flatbed and in the vehicle sides.


There are 4 different rounds (more or less)

K.Gr. Rot Pz Apcbc 6,78 kg 650 m/s 80g Fp.02 und Np.10 (102,4g aquivalent) 110mm/10m penetration.

(Its the same round as allready in game on the L/24 guns, but at wopping 650m/s, stronger than the russian F-34 and american M3 cannon)


K.Gr. Rot. SapHef 6,62 kg 655m/s 520g Amatol (520g aquivalent) (with A.Z.23 (0,15)(Ms.) (delay for semi AP) I dont know how to calculate Saphe rounds, historical penetration was (for all he rounds with the right fuze and setting) 20mm/30° at 600m


K.Gr. Rot. Hef 5,83 kg 662 m/s 520g Amatol (520g aquivalent) (with A.Z.23 v (0,15)

K.Gr. Rot (Bo.Pr) Hef 5,83 kg 520g Amatol (520g aquivalent) (with A.Z.23 v (o,15) (Bo.Pr is for Bohrgeschoß Preßstrahlform, the round has thicker base walls and was intended as a cheaper ersatz for the normal one in case of missing supply.)

(all 3 also also available in heat treated Steel with 6,4 kg)

K.Gr. Rot Nb Smoke 6,2 kg 660 m/s 50g smokestuff dont expect much.

Sprgr. 34  5,74kg 665 m/s 686g TNT/Amatol 10mm/all

By "German Explosive ordanace -Projectiles and Projectile Fuzes chapter 5" it could also fire the Gr. 38 HL series, so perhaps also the /B and /C as allready found in game with 80 and 100mm penetration respectivly.


Vehicle: Artillerie-Kraftzugmaschine Krupp-Daimler 100 PS

Weight: 8000 kg

Length: 6265 mm

Width: 2170 mm

Height: 2860 mm

Axle articulation: 30°

Engine: 4 or 6 cylinder 100 HP/74kw engine

Speed: 8 gears forward with 65 kmph (conflicting sources, going from 36 kmph with 10t attached load to 65 kmph)

             3 reverse gears to 8,5 kmph

Wheelbase: 3750mm

Ground clearance: 400mm

Turning radius: 6,5m

Crew: for this vehicle in game somewhere between 6-10

Armor: around the Hull 3-4mm (wow so thick, will deflect some small he rounds and rifle bullets from afar, nothing more) No gun shield.


I am sorry for errors and slight missalingements, its just so old.


Source: https://mercedes-benz-publicarchive.com/marsClassic/de/instance/ko/DMG-stellt-erste-Exemplare-der-Artillerie-Kraftzugmaschine-KDI-fertig.xhtml?oid=4909793

Geschoßringbuch Band I

D. 435 Anlage 7 Munition der FK 16 n.A.

Das Gerät der Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg

Encyclopaedia of the German Army in the 20th Century

Vom Einzelschuss zur Feuerwalze: der Wettlauf zwuschen Technik und Taktik im Ersten Weltkrieg

Deutsche Artillerie 1934-1945

Weapons of the Third Reich An Encyclopedic Survey of All Small arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the German Land Forces 1939-1945

German Explosive Ordanance Projectiles and Projectile Fuzes Chapter 5

Edited by Ghostmaxi
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If you had suggested this thing a couple months ago I would have said it would never happen since it's a first world War vehicle, but now that we got the char 2c anything is possible. +1

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