LaGG-3 (good God), what is it good for?

[WafflesToo 41]

Decided to take a break from Japan and started flying the Russians and I've found this plane to be equal parts fun and infuriating. It seems like every good trait it has is countered by a terrible one. It's high-speed handling actually feels pretty good, BUT it's acceleration in a dive is terrible. The nose-mounted canons and reliable roll-rate makes it a pretty good BnZ'er, BUT it's climb rate is so bad that if anybody contests altitude you lose.

I only bring this up because the plane seems to have this killer "so unfair to have cannons at this BR" reputation and I don't get it. I've never had problems hunting and killing this plane with reserves, and I find it difficult to use myself. So am I missing something? Or is it's rep the result of too many players trying to joust against it and (predictably) losing out.

Just curious to hear what the old salts have to say on it is all.

[Yubided 465]

It's performance is fine up to about 4 km. You can take it higher but you want a lot of room to build up speed in a dive if you are attacking anything above 4 km. Personally, I wouldn't bother. At it's BR, the majority of players are below 2 km, which is exactly where this plane performs at it's best. Just keep the speed high (400 kph IAS) and kill anything that happens to be in front of you. Don't try to follow targets, just make slashing attacks and get away before people know you are there. Once you get the hang of it, you'll understand why people say it's BR is low (though it's probably the closest to correct out of the main offenders - basically, it shouldn't fight reserve / 1.3 BR aircraft but it does). It was a seal clubber's plane of choice a while ago but with the lowering of the Mig 3-34 BR, and the introduction of the Yak-1 and the I-301 at mind-bogglingly low BR, the seal clubbers were (or are?) spoiled for choice. 

 

If you want to do high altitude work, use the Mig-3s and Yak-1.

[trout0r 1,098]

Now that the first ones are 2.3, there are many better Russian options: Premium I-153, I-301, MiG 3(BK) & Yak 1.

The real problem with them was that you could be an average/poor player and have an epic 2.0 lineup LaGG 3-8/ LaGG 3-11, prem I-153 and a whole bunch of I-16s and totally wreck beginner games. Now it's a little harder to get into Bi-Plane games.

[janderson01 163]

I find the LaGG a little underpowered for climbs, BUT using that cannon completely wrecks any and all light fighters of the same level. Her Armor is shabby though and aircraft that are higher on the tree can blast straight into components. Use it wisely and you will wreck. (I focus on the russian tier, it can pay off to fill your ranks with the LaGG until you get the Mig-3 BK)

[sidchicken 721]

What drives me nuts is that the LaGG is a 1941 aircraft that consistently faces planes from the mid 30's.  On the other hand, when it came out it wasn't very good, hence its rather rapid removal from front-line service in favor of the Yak's and La-5/7 which were far superior.

[Yubided 465]

What drives me nuts is that the LaGG is a 1941 aircraft that consistently faces planes from the mid 30's.  On the other hand, when it came out it wasn't very good, hence its rather rapid removal from front-line service in favor of the Yak's and La-5/7 which were far superior.

 

Answer this question for me.

 

Who, in their right-mind, would fly a LaGG-3 if it had to face it's historical opponents? Who, in their right-mind, would participate in events where you were forced to fly the LaGG-3 against it's historical opponents?

 

The problem with a historical matchmaker is that you might as well remove 3/4s of the planes available in all tech-trees. Nobody is going to want to fly a plane that is horribly outperformed by their opponents. Besides, from an AB perspective, history means very little. I would much rather see planes matched on their performance (not player, the aircraft), in-game. However, this will probably result in some lean spots in all nation's tech trees. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy solution to this problem.

 

The LaGG-3 as an aircraft, even with AB boosts, isn't that great anyway. It's not a hard plane to outmaneuver and it's one of the more fragile Russian aircraft out there. It only does well when facing inexperienced opponents. There are numerous planes at BR 2.3 that should have no trouble catching and killing it. The only real problem is that it can still end up in Reserve matches. If the LaGG-3 pilot is even remotely competent, the best most biplanes can do is get out of the way of the gun when it gets close. That said, the LaGG-3 will get a lot of new players killed too. Most new guys have no concept of energy fighting. They tend to think every plane is an angle fighter of some description, which the LaGG-3 is...

 

... a terrible one!

Edited July 2, 2015 by Yubided

[WafflesToo 41]

Maybe the problem is I've been flying under a cloud of P-39s lately and have no way to compete (barring a mistake by the cobra pilot, which hasn't happened yet). XD

Oh well, they'll get bored eventually. I still feel this plane is pretty overrated. Not bad, just overrated. Edited July 2, 2015 by WafflesToo

[Yubided 465]

Ah OK, are you using the last LaGG-3 you unlock (3-66 I think...)? The BR on the last LaGG is 3.0. That would explain seeing many P-39s. Yeah the last one faces some stiff opposition. The method remains the same with it but you're a lot more likely to get bounced.

[WafflesToo 41]

Nope, I have the -8 and the -11 (plus one of the I-15s) in my lineup. I think the MM is just having some fun at my expense. ;)

[AIM_120_AMRAAM 234]

Raging against the LaGGs was just en vogue for quite a bit of time. Having cannons at that BR is not unfair when you compare the 8 and 11 with stuff like the MC.202, 109 E-1, Ki-43, the P-36s and now the F2A-1. They're even lower than the LaGGs, are marvellous planes (unlike the Russian hogs you're served until the Yak-1) and are only screwed over because of horrible SAFATs and/or non-M2 MGs in general.

 

Concerning the "Cannons are unfair at that BR!!!111" argument - the BF110 was 2.0 for quite some time and it was a marvellous clubber, at least twice as potent as any LaGG and it is still a very viable alternative. Yet it didn't/doesn't receive anywhere near the flak the Russian line takes. This forum basically exists just to bash the VVS and Gaijin.

 

As for the usage of the LaGG - you sadly need to stay low with it, the engine suffocates as early as 3000m when WEP greys out and is basically non-functional while it also needs lots of speeds/energy to be able to keep its distance from an enemy. It's a pretty good choice to bounce the furball on Domination maps above the airfields as those are very low and you can play some energy games when you attract attention. I'd strongly recommend using this in a squad. Also, I'd advise against using rockets on this one, though that's just my personal opinion. I can't hit the broadside of a barn with them and they deteriorite the already quite pitiful performance even further. Never take turnfights against anything, Wellingtons will outturn you.

 

In short, since they're 2.3 now, take the Yak-1 instead of the LaGGs and you have a superior platform. If you favour high altitudes e.g. for bomber hunting/protection switch to the MiG-3-15 BK.

[WafflesToo 41]

Yeah, I know the MiG-3 very well in that role (I fought against plenty of them flying bomber escort/intercept in the Ki-45).

I honestly only went back to try the LaGGs again after the rash of "ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead" posts following the last patch to see what the hullabaloo was about. Frankly, after flying it again I think it was over-tiered at 2.0 Edited July 2, 2015 by WafflesToo

[*AcemanElite 1,733]

The lagg is a low altitude boom and zoomer, they are effective in light vehicle battles because of this. The laggs were overpowered at 2.0, not because of compression issues either. They were one of the best 2.0 planes. 2.3 is where the worst ones should sit at.

 

But there are plenty of other planes that need moving up aswell.

 

In the bottom range the best planes should be gladiators, i16 type 5, cr42, a5m4 and ki27, p36a. 1-1.3 battles like they used to have

 

Then you can have your f2a1's, he112's and g50's, i16t10+'s and i153's, hurricanes, ki43's, etc in the range above. Like they used to have.

 

The current +/-1 system at the bottom end really enables the clubbers to utilise the most OP 2.0 line-ups to achieve kills. It didn't used to be like this.

 

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

[Slappymcyuck 160]

pre-soaked in diesel but with fire extinguishers 

[WafflesToo 41]

The lagg is a low altitude boom and zoomer, they are effective in light vehicle battles because of this. The laggs were overpowered at 2.0, not because of compression issues either. They were one of the best 2.0 planes. 2.3 is where the worst ones should sit at.

 

But there are plenty of other planes that need moving up aswell.

 

In the bottom range the best planes should be gladiators, i16 type 5, cr42, a5m4 and ki27, p36a. 1-1.3 battles like they used to have

 

Then you can have your f2a1's, he112's and g50's, i16t10+'s and i153's, hurricanes, ki43's, etc in the range above. Like they used to have.

 

The current +/-1 system at the bottom end really enables the clubbers to utilise the most OP 2.0 line-ups to achieve kills. It didn't used to be like this.

 

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

 

Hardly off-topic I'd say.  I have used the LaGG-3-8/11 sith some bit of success as a low-altitude BnZ plane, but facing stiff competition from high-altitude fighters in the hands of pilots who know their strengths it feels a little helpless.  Eh, that's WT, right?  After-all, if I catch a MiG low on energy it's lunch time so fair's fair.

 

I never understood the BR of the F2A-1 (which is now the F2A-2 in all but name), I love flying that plane and teaching those who ignore me a lesson (isn't that right, fellow-who-blew-past-me-in-a-Ki61-to-get-at-a-bomber-behind-me)   :Ps

 

I always felt the P-36 line was overrated, I've never been afraid of those things when flying a fighter with superior engine performance and find them quite easy to pull into an energy-trap using either my F2A or Ki-45 Ko...  I imagine they'd be completely helpless against a Ki-43 for the same reasons.

 

Hey, is it just me, or does Gajin tend to weigh low-speed handling and firepower over high-speed handling and climb rate when settling on the BR for at least the low-BR stuff?

Edited July 4, 2015 by WafflesToo

[ShyWoof 163]

Basically the thing with the LaGG is that it's a cannon-equipped monoplane that regularly flew against biplanes thanks to its low BR. This has been adjusted, so while the plane is still powerfully gunned for its level, it's not as overwhelming as it was before. Yeah it's fragile, but so were the peashooters it was flying against.

[SunsetShimmers 7,929]

It has speed and good firepower.

 

They have been overshadowed by the ridiculousness that is the MiG-3-34 though.

[*AcemanElite 1,733]

 

Hey, is it just me, or does Gajin tend to weigh low-speed handling and firepower over high-speed handling and climb rate when settling on the BR for at least the low-BR stuff?

 

That's to do with the players in the game. Most of them go head to head and turn-fight, so planes that are good in these 2 aspects will have better numbers due to 'your average' player doing better in these planes.

 

Prime example: FWD9 compared to fwa5/u2. 

[ROD4N 123]

Spit Mk Vc would be even a better example.

Along with CannonCane.

[Ruklukk 256]

So I am training up new crews and figured I'd play some of the low level planes that I seemed to breeze out of so quickly. I had three planes with a 1.3 BR. I got strafed to crap by a LaGG-3 BR 2.3. I looked at the player card and he was a Rank 31...Wait...what?

 

So I dig a little deeper and dude has like 300 deaths and 56 air kills (somehow he was 6-2 to that point in this match) and really not a lot of ground kills.

 

I chuckled and figured I should compliment the MM. He needs that LaGG-3 because if he hadn't gotten my biplane wings on first pass I'd a had him.

[*AcemanElite 1,733]

Spit Mk Vc would be even a better example.

Along with CannonCane.

Yep spit 2b vs Cannoncane is a great one.

[WafflesToo 41]

So I am training up new crews and figured I'd play some of the low level planes that I seemed to breeze out of so quickly. I had three planes with a 1.3 BR. I got strafed to crap by a LaGG-3 BR 2.3. I looked at the player card and he was a Rank 31...Wait...what?

 

So I dig a little deeper and dude has like 300 deaths and 56 air kills (somehow he was 6-2 to that point in this match) and really not a lot of ground kills.

 

I chuckled and figured I should compliment the MM. He needs that LaGG-3 because if he hadn't gotten my biplane wings on first pass I'd a had him.

 

LOLOLOL!  That reminds me of the time I got RAMMED out of the way by a Spitfire who decided he wanted to shoot down the BB1 I was shooting up with my Peashooter-M2.  I figured, "fine, you've got eight guns to my two... go right on ahead." and pulled up to clear the airspace.  I had fine, grand-stand seating to watch the mouth-breathing, vegetable-brained window-licker fly straight into the ground when the BB1 pilot flew behind a hill.  

 

I was laughing so hard that I simply could not take aim again and had to disengage to regain my bearing.  Just like you I checked his stats after the battle and he was the Potatoe's potatoe.  Watching the replay I saw him earlier dive into a dogfight FROM SPACE; miss his target, shoot down a friendly and then managed to ram a second friendly before auguring straight into the ground himself.  I got the picture why MM was allowing him into biplane matches with 2.3+ fighters. XD

[Ruklukk 256]

LOLOLOL!  That reminds me of the time I got RAMMED out of the way by a Spitfire who decided he wanted to shoot down the BB1 I was shooting up with my Peashooter-M2.  I figured, "fine, you've got eight guns to my two... go right on ahead." and pulled up to clear the airspace.  I had fine, grand-stand seating to watch the mouth-breathing, vegetable-brained window-licker fly straight into the ground when the BB1 pilot flew behind a hill.  

 

I was laughing so hard that I simply could not take aim again and had to disengage to regain my bearing.  Just like you I checked his stats after the battle and he was the Potatoe's potatoe.  Watching the replay I saw him earlier dive into a dogfight FROM SPACE; miss his target, shoot down a friendly and then managed to ram a second friendly before auguring straight into the ground himself.  I got the picture why MM was allowing him into biplane matches with 2.3+ fighters. XD

 

Comin' in hot!!!

 

I couldn't laugh so hard if I hadn't lawn darted after countless "perfect" approaches, regardless of how many of my teammates were following the guy (or girl...).

 

Amazing how many more kills there are to be had clearing tails over sights. But the dilemma for me: You're on a guy, two over-eager teammates see meat on the table so they jump in on it. You're smarter than all that (crash is coming) so you disengage - in the next three to four minutes they follow the guy (or girl...) and they wind up shooting me. Now I feel like the idiot for leaving my six to THREE teammates because they get paid by the hour to shoot at and follow planes it seems.

 

I now take to disengaging by climbing straight up and dropping back in on my dude and shooting the pilot. I can hear the collective scream of "KILL STEALER!!" from the three guys who jumped in on my target in the first place. What is your disengagement move?

[WafflesToo 41]

Comin' in
I now take to disengaging by climbing straight up and dropping back in on my dude and shooting the pilot. I can hear the collective scream of "KILL STEALER!!" from the three guys who jumped in on my target in the first place. What is your disengagement move?

Same here, if the airspace around a target starts to get crowded I'll pull out-of-plane if I'm going to re-engage, or I'll just pull an Immelman and clear out to find another target. No sense getting rammed by one of the seagulls.

In that case I just turned back toward spawn to put myself among the blue dots, at least until I could breath again. Funniest moment ever. Edited July 8, 2015 by WafflesToo

[ArtVandal 219]

Decided to take a break from Japan and started flying the Russians and I've found this plane to be equal parts fun and infuriating. It seems like every good trait it has is countered by a terrible one. It's high-speed handling actually feels pretty good, BUT it's acceleration in a dive is terrible. The nose-mounted canons and reliable roll-rate makes it a pretty good BnZ'er, BUT it's climb rate is so bad that if anybody contests altitude you lose.

I only bring this up because the plane seems to have this killer "so unfair to have cannons at this BR" reputation and I don't get it. I've never had problems hunting and killing this plane with reserves, and I find it difficult to use myself. So am I missing something? Or is it's rep the result of too many players trying to joust against it and (predictably) losing out.

Just curious to hear what the old salts have to say on it is all.

 

When I played LaGGs a lot, it had BR 2.0 and it was a seal-clubbing machine. Keep speed up, B&Z, nobody can catch you after high-speed passes, and the 20mm can get plenty of kills. Bad climbing rate at low BR battles is not a problem because few enemies climb and enemy high-alt. bombers seem oblivious to everything and terrible at bombing.

 

Probably at 2.3 it gets a bit higher proportion of tougher match-ups, but should still be fine.

 

The tier II LaGGs at BR 3.0 are a joke, would never play unless running out of planes.

 

But yeah, if you end up in a tier II battle and there are FW 190 A4s (tier II, baby!) diving on you, you're the turkey in the shoot. But it's not alone in having those problematic match-ups sometimes.

 

And as for most Russian planes, it's not spectacular at anything, but good speed, maneuvrability and firepower means you are almost always relevant. The only time it can feel pretty useless is when you get into a higher tier ground-strike battle and enemy fighters control the sky at altitude. Then yeah, there's not much to do..

 

Actually, now with all these streaks of domination matches, I have trouble telling most Russian planes apart. Laggs, Yaks, LAs, it's all the same really, the only difference is how quickly you can regain position to re-enter the furball at speed and how reliably you can kill a target in one pass (1 shvak or 2). Otherwise, they are all the same, lol. Good in numbers and against bad players :)

[WafflesToo 41]

I keep hearing the same, "most pplz don't klimb at tier-I" argument. That doesn't sound like a good reason for BR setting in what is supposed to be an e-sport-type competitive game.