Ground vehicles Leopard 1A1A1

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

Since the cutoff Date for tanks has been moved to 1970 and the T62 has been confirmed to come and the t64 is likely to do so as well I highly recommend to give the germans a better Leopard variant.

 

The Leopard 1 A1A1 (yes A1 two times) is a modification for the Leopard including some changes we cant implement in War Thunder (rubber block standardification) BUT it also features some really important changes. 

 

1) Side Skirts developed by Blohm&Voss to protect the upper tracks and the sides.

 

2) additional Turret Armor developed by Blohm&Voss. An all-around Turret spaced armor was added as well as an extra steelplate on the turret front.

 

3) improved gun stabilisation allowing it to fire effectively on the move

 

4) it recieved a thermal jacket for the gun to reduce the Heat which bends the gun after each shot to make it more accurate

 

Only these "little"changes would make it far more effective without reducing its speed.

 

This is especially needed when looking at some other vehicles that may appear: Chieftain, M60A1 or A2, T62, T64(maybe)

 

To counter these this here would be a start but i have something in my mind which you will probably see in 1-2 days (another suggestion which will take all the possibilities we have for german T5 tanks and put them into one suggestion)

 

Here you can see how it would look:

[spoiler] [attachment=170874:1280px-Leopard1_Bundeswehrwt.jpg]

[attachment=170876:225221-Berserkerwt.jpg]

[attachment=170877:Leopard-1-latrun-1wt.jpg] [/spoiler]

 

Sources: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product152.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_1#Leopard_A1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_1

http://www.artitecshop.com/de/leopard-1a1-a2-flecktarn.html

http://www.artitecshop.com/de/leopard-1a1-a2-gefechtsklar-gelboliv.html

http://www.hartziel.de/_typen/leo1.htm

 

 

Whats your opinion?

Edited November 13, 2015 by TheJoker1432

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Open for discussion. :Salute:

[Guest]

I like  :yes:

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

Open for discussion. :salute:

thank you :D

I like  :yes:

me too^^

[swedeonthemoose 12,809]

i support, even with the added armor it still wouldnt be some op monster ingame atm.

[HispanoHeretic 1]

Looks like a good idea, even if it ends up being op (which it probably won't) the Germans deserve some love.  :good:  :yes:

[bilsantu 5,950]

I think I saw this suggestion before but won't waste my time to find it now.  :Ps

[nated13@psn 137]

i support, even with the added armor it still wouldnt be some op monster ingame atm.

Like all russian tanks  :Ds

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

i support, even with the added armor it still wouldnt be some op monster ingame atm.

exactly my idea

Looks like a good idea, even if it ends up being op (which it probably won't) the Germans deserve some love.  :good:  :yes:

i highly doubt that since the armor isnt like 400mm now its only i dont know maybe 5-20mm more

[Luck_Enjoyer 4]

This and the 1A2 should be added

[igeticsu 3,400]

Yeah :D Also I saw some people saying that the T-64 wouldn't be added due to its armor.

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

This and the 1A2 should be added

yes maybe even A3 and such because otherwise the M60A1 and the Chieftain will be OP

Yeah :D Also I saw some people saying that the T-64 wouldn't be added due to its armor.

well t62 i bad enough

M60A1 as well

and teh chieftain hurts too

[Bombastikus 14,039]

Would love it simply because the addon armor is incredibly needed on this fragile tank...however I don't think this will EVER be added simply because - and correct me if I am wrong - the upgrade to A1A1 with all that add-on armor is from 1977, so way beyond the cutoff-date.

[Apache_Warrior 607]

Would love it simply because the addon armor is incredibly needed on this fragile tank...however I don't think this will EVER be added simply because - and correct me if I am wrong - the upgrade to A1A1 with all that add-on armor is from 1977, so way beyond the cutoff-date.

 

Current cut-off date, to cite the DEVs, is 1970s, as in '70s. So it can go up to 1979. For planes it is 1960s. Proof: http://warthunder.com/en/news/3275/current#18

 

That being said, Leopard I A1A1 has quite a chance to appear in WT. But I don't think Gaijin will go with T-64, because they said they want to avoid automatically guided ATGMs, composite armour, and depleted uranium ammunition, just like they want to avoid air-to-air guided missiles. Late T-64s are third generation MBTs and if they are introduced, other nation's player will want comparable vehicles too... which means Abrams and Leopard 2 (both USA and Germany hadn't any tanks in second generation that had composite armour). UK would have FV 4201 Chieftain from second generation, but that was a beast of a tank, that would still dominate.

 

Generally, end of second generation, third generation, and everything after it is one big mess. If you go there with tech trees, there will be no balance, even with BRs, because that was and still is a very competitive field, in which each new design is usually supreme to all its predecesors and is just waiting for someone else to come up with something to surpass it. And we are talking about quite modern times here, where new technologies and materials were sprouting like mushrooms after autumn rain.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Apache_Warrior

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

To everyone who likes this idea pls stay tuned for a suggestion i will put up today or tomorrow about germab t5 tanks

@Apache_Warrior is the cutoff really 1970's? Then other leo variants can come too

[PsychotikBrocoli 365]

exactly my idea

i highly doubt that since the armor isnt like 400mm now its only i dont know maybe 5-20mm more

21mm@ 60º, -> 60mm air, -> 100mm @34º-> 25mm air -> 20mm @0º

 

The Leopard 1A1A1 and the Leopard 1A3/1A4 with spaced armor were better protected against certain threats than the other MBTs of the same time. According to literature the Leopard 1 with spaced armor is able to resist a RPG-7 or the 73mm HEAT-FS round from the BMP-1 at the front. The same ammunition has no problem piercing through the thickest part of the M60A1 turret front. 

 

Against APDS/APFSDS the spaced armor is much more effective than cast steel armor as used on other tanks. Cast steel already is worse than rolled steel by up to 20%. The Leopard 1A3's turret with spaced armor is based on experiences from the Experimentalentwicklung that itself is a follow up of the MBT-70 development. The MBT-70 used spaced armor where the outer layer was made of steel with a hardness of 550 HB - this is more than twice as hard as the steel used on M60 and T-62. The applique armor of the Leopard 1A1A1 is designed in such a way, that even the high hardness alloys could be used, which due to their metalugry cannot be welded together.

Early APFSDS and APDS with steel core or tungsten carbide are extremely brittle and shatter when penetrating one layer of steel, which is why the penetration against spaced armor is much lower. The 105mm L28A1 APDS could not penetrate 20mm steel - 60mm air - 80mm steel at 30 or 60°.

Spaced armor also increases the chance of bouncing, which still exists for ammo from the 1960s and 1970s. The usage of big slabs of rubber and a special bolt design (so called shock mounts) also increase the likelyhood of bounces. It is also "immune" against HESH, which could cause lethal amounts of spall on other tanks like the Chieftain (at least hull was not safe vs 105mm HESH), M60A1 (hull and turret) and T-62 (hull and turret at some places).

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

21mm@ 60º, -> 60mm air, -> 100mm @34º-> 25mm air -> 20mm @0º

 

The Leopard 1A1A1 and the Leopard 1A3/1A4 with spaced armor were better protected against certain threats than the other MBTs of the same time. According to literature the Leopard 1 with spaced armor is able to resist a RPG-7 or the 73mm HEAT-FS round from the BMP-1 at the front. The same ammunition has no problem piercing through the thickest part of the M60A1 turret front. 

 

Against APDS/APFSDS the spaced armor is much more effective than cast steel armor as used on other tanks. Cast steel already is worse than rolled steel by up to 20%. The Leopard 1A3's turret with spaced armor is based on experiences from the Experimentalentwicklung that itself is a follow up of the MBT-70 development. The MBT-70 used spaced armor where the outer layer was made of steel with a hardness of 550 HB - this is more than twice as hard as the steel used on M60 and T-62. The applique armor of the Leopard 1A1A1 is designed in such a way, that even the high hardness alloys could be used, which due to their metalugry cannot be welded together.

Early APFSDS and APDS with steel core or tungsten carbide are extremely brittle and shatter when penetrating one layer of steel, which is why the penetration against spaced armor is much lower. The 105mm L28A1 APDS could not penetrate 20mm steel - 60mm air - 80mm steel at 30 or 60°.

Spaced armor also increases the chance of bouncing, which still exists for ammo from the 1960s and 1970s. The usage of big slabs of rubber and a special bolt design (so called shock mounts) also increase the likelyhood of bounces. It is also "immune" against HESH, which could cause lethal amounts of spall on other tanks like the Chieftain (at least hull was not safe vs 105mm HESH), M60A1 (hull and turret) and T-62 (hull and turret at some places).

cool so its useful if teh devs implement it like this :D

[Stronk_Memes 111]

I like this suggestion. (: Germany needs more post-war tanks.

[Thorthemigthy 347]

This is needed, Leopard 1 was known for the fact that it had crappy armor. High Explosive could wreck the damn thing. 

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

To support this vehicle please go HERE:http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/278743-future-of-german-tier-5-only-real-built-vehicles/

Edited November 13, 2015 by TheJoker1432

[_PabloSniper_ 2,142]

my big +1

[Mr_Hunter_99 781]

Next will be leopard II

 

[Josh_Yong 328]

Just one issue tho, the Leo cost 990000 to buy and a good amount of RP tbh in not about doing the full Leo grind again. Do you think gain would reduce the cost for variants of tanks?

[TheJoker1432 1,974]

I guess this can be moved to implemented now?

[Josh_Yong 328]

4 minutes ago, TheJoker1432 said:

I guess this can be moved to implemented now?

Well not really, they said the 1A1 was confirmed not the 1A1A1  Nvm did not see the devblog 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Josh_Yong