[1.67.1.63] Ju 88 A-1 missing realism bug

[TT33a 5,404]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by TT33a

[TT33a 5,404]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by TT33a

[TT33a 5,404]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by TT33a

[TT33a 5,404]

 

 

 

 

Conclusion:



The Ju 88 A-1 in-game is currently incorrect in the following ways:
 

1.) Ju 88 A-1 in-game is equipped with erroneous and/or missing bomb racks such as the incorrect ETC 250/IV or the missing ETC 500 IX under the outer wings

2.) Ju 88 A-1 in-game has missing common bomb payloads such as the 18 x 50 kg, 1 x 500 kg, 1 x 1,000 kg, 6 x 250 kg, 4 x 500 kg, 2 x 1,000 kg, 4 x 500 kg + 2 x 250 kg, &  1 x 1,000 kg + 1 x 500 kg

3.) Aircraft in-game is missing larger bomb types including the 1,000 kg bomb

4.) Aircraft's maximum bombload of 2,500 kg is missing in-game

5.) Aircraft in-game is missing asymmetrical bombloads such as the 1 x 1,000 kg + 1 x 500 kg

6.) In-game defensive weapons have incorrect blind spots due to missing weapons

7.) Missing MG 15 weapon in the B-Stand in-game which should be 2 x MG 15 as stated in the aircraft manual

8.) Cockpit side mountings for MG 15 weapons are missing in-game

9.) Aircraft in-game missing the ability to unlock (upgrade) the side mounted 2 x MG 15

10.) Aircraft is missing ammo for the MG 15

11.) Underperforming top speed of 450 km/h at 5,000 meters in-game does not correspond with the historical performance of this aircraft

12.) Historical top speed of 455 km/h at 11.5t at about 5,500 meters cannot be achieved in-game as aircraft FM is too slow

13.) Historical top speed of 415 km/h at 5,500 meters with maximum 2,500 kg bombload at ~12t cannot be achieved in-game as the aircraft lacks its maximum bomb load in-game

14.) In-game climb rate with 2 x 500 kg or 4 x 250 kg bombload is incorrect

15.) Incorrect dive brake activation speed

16.) Incorrect never exceed speed of 641 km/h instead of 675 km/h

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by TT33a

[TT33a 5,404]

Edited March 29, 2017 by TT33a

[SD501st 2,503]

This should really be a thread in the bug-report section, it has more than enough documentation already in it to be accepted.

[TT33a 5,404]

Anyone else have any other problems/gripes with the Ju 88 A-1? If not, I will submit this and the Ju 88 A-4 thread to the bug report section next Monday...

[Pony51 6,572]

TT33a, 

Lets break this down into most helpful and likely to be done.

Some items will be "suggestions"

 

You wrote (I reply):

1.) Ju 88 A-1 in-game is equipped with erroneous and/or missing bomb racks such as the incorrect ETC 250/IV or the missing ETC 500 IX under the outer wings (names can fix, outer rack... maybe)
2.) Ju 88 A-1 in-game has missing common bomb payloads such as the 18 x 50 kg, 1 x 500 kg, 1 x 1,000 kg, 6 x 250 kg, 4 x 500 kg, 2 x 1,000 kg, 4 x 500 kg + 2 x 250 kg, &  1 x 1,000 kg + 1 x 500 kg (Red is highly unlikely, others are possible **War time combat pictures almost never show what the manual said it could do.)
3.) Aircraft in-game is missing larger bomb types including the 1,000 kg bomb (maybe get, but don't count on it.)
4.) Aircraft's maximum bombload of 2,500 kg is missing in-game (very unlikely)
5.) Aircraft in-game is missing asymmetrical bombloads such as the 1 x 1,000 kg + 1 x 500 kg (unlikely accepted)
6.) In-game defensive weapons have incorrect blind spots due to missing weapons (This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system.  Maybe another version, but unlikely to get)
7.) Missing MG 15 weapon in the B-Stand in-game which should be 2 x MG 15 as stated in the aircraft manual (This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system.)
8.) Cockpit side mountings for MG 15 weapons are missing in-game (This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system.)
9.) Aircraft in-game missing the ability to unlock (upgrade) the side mounted 2 x MG 15 (Can try) 
10.) Aircraft is missing ammo for the MG 15 (the ammo cans are not depcited.  (modeled only for belt fed.  Good point though)
11.) Underperforming top speed of 450 km/h at 5,000 meters in-game does not correspond with the historical performance of this aircraft  (Something it report, HOWEVER keep in mind if the bomb racks are installed (loaded or unloaded also).  That is critical to argue this data.)
12.) Historical top speed of 455 km/h at 11.5t at about 5,500 meters cannot be achieved in-game as aircraft FM is too slow (see above)
13.) Historical top speed of 415 km/h at 5,500 meters with maximum 2,500 kg bombload at ~12t cannot be achieved in-game as the aircraft lacks its maximum bomb load in-game (very unlikely)
14.) In-game climb rate with 2 x 500 kg or 4 x 250 kg bombload is incorrect (yes!)
15.) Incorrect dive brake activation speed (yes!)
16.) Incorrect never exceed speed of 641 km/h instead of 675 km/h (yes!)

 

I think we can find some other bugs (and I have and already reported)

 

[TT33a 5,404]

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

War time combat pictures almost never show what the manual said it could do.

 

That is the point. The manual should be followed to the letter as war time combat pictures are either missing, incomplete, censored, burned en masse in the last days of the war, in unpublished private collections, snatched up by Operation LUSTY and rotting away somewhere in a moldy box....etc.

 

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

 1 x 1,000 kg + 1 x 500 kg

 

pic

 

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

2,500 kg is missing.......very unlikely

 

Why? Manual lists it and document from Junkers lists it

 

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system.  Maybe another version, but unlikely to get This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system

 

LL system as in the Linsenlafette LL-K/P1? If you look above the manual clearly states for the B-Stand (zwei) 2 x MG 15 for this mounting. If you mean the non LL mounting pictured below then it is still 2 x MG 15 as one was quickly determined to be inadequate:

 

 

 

 

 

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

side mountings for MG 15 weapons are missing in-game (This is early 1940 A-1 with the LL system.)

 

Once again the A-1 manual clearly states 2 x MG 15 under the section labeled 'Zusatzliche Schusswaffe'. Now if you are trying to tell me that gaijin is cucking on these two lateral MG 15 then why is it:

1.) that gaijin is defying both the A-1 and A-4 manuals which clearly depict these weapons

2.) not available as an unlock or upgrade for the A-1, A-4 or both?

3.) still missing from the outset on the A-4?

 

On ‎03‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 1:30 AM, Pony51 said:

meters with maximum 2,500 kg bombload at ~12t cannot be achieved in-game as the aircraft lacks its maximum bomb load in-game (very unlikely)

 

What is unlikely, the 4 x 500 kg + 2 x 250 kg load? If you feel that this is 'very unlikely'

1.) Provide evidence to discredit the actual aircraft manual and prove your claim and/or

2.) Implement 28 x 50 kg + 2 x 500 kg instead (2,400 kg)

[TT33a 5,404]

[Pony51 6,572]

As much as it would be great to have every possible combo and option on the aircraft, there is that pesky thing of game balance.

The BR of the 88's would likely go up to 3.0~3.3 if it had the larger bombs.

 

GJ is reluctant to change models, even a major model error may take a long time to correct.  Keep in mind those dual mount will have a much smaller cone of coverage, guess 60 degrees at best.  The LL is a full 90 degrees.

 

Pic is 1x 1000kg + 500kg is very good, will help in approval of that load, if they decide to.

 

Sorry not back sooner, I am taking care of a lot of family issues.

[TT33a 5,404]

4 hours ago, Pony51 said:

As much as it would be great to have every possible combo and option on the aircraft, there is that pesky thing of game balance

 

Well then

1.) don't talk about game balance when the soviets receive a FAB 5000 kg bomb on some 1936 pre-war, 96 produced rarity (Pe-8) at Rank III

2.) if they use "balance" as justification to deny us larger bombs, bombloads, weapons, or maximum bombloads like on the Pe-8 then this game is not for me

 

 

.

Edited April 15, 2017 by TT33a

[Pony51 6,572]

On 4/15/2017 at 3:09 AM, TT33a said:

 

Well then

1.) don't talk about game balance when the soviets receive a FAB 5000 kg bomb on some 1936 pre-war, 96 produced rarity (Pe-8) at Rank III

2.) if they use "balance" as justification to deny us larger bombs, bombloads, weapons, or maximum bombloads like on the Pe-8 then this game is not for me

 

Yeah, I know  

 

OTH, seen those BV zergs?

Last couple of EC4 I was in, a squad of players only took BV and came in en-mass.  It was supper hard to take them down, and even some damaged one was able to drop load on AF.  They eventually won by destroying all 3 AF's, but it was a rather exciting challenge!

I think had they flown close formation with max crew they would have won in 1/4 the time.

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

Kinda sad that we will, probably, only get the minor bomb load outs and maybe the second MG 15 for the B stand, but I doubt they will add the lateral MGs or the full bomb load on the A-1, but maybe the A-4 when WT devs get there heads out of their rear ends. 

[TT33a 5,404]

 

[TT33a 5,404]

On ‎04‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:52 PM, Pony51 said:

1x 1000kg + 500kg is very good, will help in approval of that load, if they decide to.

 

Found a bigger more complete picture of that bombload from the book Aero detail 20. Book claims it is an A-5, not A-1 but since both A-1 & A-5 have the same bomb racks, same engine power of 882 kw, and the 1,000kg + 500 kg is under the A-1's 2,500 kg manual listed max bombload, this load should be approved for the game...