gameplay Tiger 1 add on armour upgrade (upper plate)

[proMLGpro 366]

hello,

 

as most of us know, the tiger 1 in game is mostly cannon fodder sitting at 5,7 being regularly uptiered.

the tiger E has add on armour which helps a little bit but not covering up its weak spots on the frontal hull.

 

now i found a photograph of a captured tiger 1 in north africa with addon armour at interesting places, and i would suggest adding tracks in game to the location you see in the photographs, it would help increase the viability of the tiger making its front somewhat stronger and even better when angled.

 

here you see the tracks on the front hull covering up the weaker parts of the upper plate and in some cases both the upper and lower plate.

thanks @Ian343 for supplying additional photographs!

 

and here you see what we currently have in the game, only lower plate protection, no upper plate protection.

 

i would like to see a combination of these 2 protective addon armours in game, or the option to pick one over the other.

the reason why i would prefer the upper plate addon amour is because it protects the ammoracks from the front and it is more effective in a hull down position.

also, the lower plate is already a bit angled and the upper is not, making it a go to weakspot when i face it.

 

in short, i want add on armour added on the upper plate as it was historically used.

 

 

i hope you'll consider this.

 

~jeff

Edited December 17, 2017 by proMLGpro
Edited title for clarity. edited in extra pictures, showing tracks being used on the upper and lower plate.

[SAUBER_KH7 3,326]

Open for Discussion.

 

I edited the title to be more clear, and I also edited the poll to comply with the Rules. As a kind note: All poll questions must have a "No" vote as the Poll system requires members to answer each question.

Quote

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When adding a poll to your suggestion, make sure to ALWAYS include a negative option to a question,so it's fair and unbiased. In case this was not followed,the poll creator will be notified and the poll will be modified to provide a fair voting system.

Quoted from:

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by SAUBER_KH7

[Nope 10,634]

whats the actual thickness of the add-on plate though

 

and even then said tiger i variant will not belong at 5.7 at all

[proMLGpro 366]

8 minutes ago, Nope said:

whats the actual thickness of the add-on plate though

 

and even then said tiger i variant will not belong at 5.7 at all

its not an add-on plate, its tracks which just like the current ones are 30mm's thick with a 0,75 modifier. so effectively 22,5mm extra armour at 90 degrees.

 

and wether or not it belongs at 5,7 is not the topic here, i'm saying that it will atleast help it cope better at 5,7 making it more immune to the US 76mm APHE shells and offering more protection to the soviet 85mm aphe shell.

[TheDeadDisciple 35]

58 minutes ago, proMLGpro said:

its not an add-on plate, its tracks which just like the current ones are 30mm's thick with a 0,75 modifier. so effectively 22,5mm extra armour at 90 degrees.

 

and wether or not it belongs at 5,7 is not the topic here, i'm saying that it will atleast help it cope better at 5,7 making it more immune to the US 76mm APHE shells and offering more protection to the soviet 85mm aphe shell.

 

Or you just angle and realize that you've got the most broken tank in terms of armor at that BR. Almost nothing can pen you

 

It does not need this, will just make it more OP than it already is

[proMLGpro 366]

1 hour ago, TheDeadDisciple said:

 

Or you just angle and realize that you've got the most broken tank in terms of armor at that BR. Almost nothing can pen you

 

It does not need this, will just make it more OP than it already is

troll?

if not, the 85mm and 90mm can easily pen the UFP even when angled. 

these guns are to be found on medium tanks at the same BR as the tiger,(T25 t34-85) therefore rendering its armour nearly useless in most cases.

 

the angling only helps vs the solid shot or the 76mm APHE. which is found below its BR

Edited December 16, 2017 by proMLGpro

[Nope 10,634]

2 hours ago, proMLGpro said:

troll?

if not, the 85mm and 90mm can easily pen the UFP even when angled. 

these guns are to be found on medium tanks at the same BR as the tiger,(T25 t34-85) therefore rendering its armour nearly useless in most cases.

 

the angling only helps vs the solid shot or the 76mm APHE. which is found below its BR

 

idk, people don't really see the tiger i as underperforming, and even the stats show the same apparently

[proMLGpro 366]

12 hours ago, Nope said:

 

idk, people don't really see the tiger i as underperforming, and even the stats show the same apparently

i just know that whenever i face one, its usually an instant kill through the side of the front plates, right into the ammo racks.

and playing one is painfull as well as most guns you face will negate your armour, even when angled.

[Noir89 2,577]

I would love to see the additional Armor on both the H and E model. Every detail which is added to War Thunder is a win (i would also like the Concrete Armor on the Stug or Sherman)

[proMLGpro 366]

50 minutes ago, Noir89 said:

I would love to see the additional Armor on both the H and E model. Every detail which is added to War Thunder is a win (i would also like the Concrete Armor on the Stug or Sherman)

i'd be interested to see how concrete will be modeled. 

[TheDeadDisciple 35]

On 2017-12-17 at 12:17 AM, proMLGpro said:

troll?

if not, the 85mm and 90mm can easily pen the UFP even when angled. 

these guns are to be found on medium tanks at the same BR as the tiger,(T25 t34-85) therefore rendering its armour nearly useless in most cases.

 

the angling only helps vs the solid shot or the 76mm APHE. which is found below its BR

You're doing it wrong. When angled at 45^o I have never been penned once by a gun that's below 100mm in caliber, and that only happens when you uptier. The armor is the best at it's BR and it doesn't have a single weak spot. 

[proMLGpro 366]

2 hours ago, TheDeadDisciple said:

You're doing it wrong. When angled at 45^o I have never been penned once by a gun that's below 100mm in caliber, and that only happens when you uptier. The armor is the best at it's BR and it doesn't have a single weak spot. 

Only at the Optimal angle will the armour reach about 130mm, then it is relatively safe beyond 200m. However if you under or over angle slightly the 85mm or 90mm will penetrate.

So if you have the time to prepare your perfect angle from a distance you'll be safe.

But on most maps that is hard to do whist still trying to win a match by going for objectives.

In my extensive experience, the armour on the tiger 1 works less well than the armour of the panther D for example.

 

My suggestion will not make the tiger 1 OP, it'll simply increase the zone at which your angling will work.(better when suddenly facing an enemy and needing to angle asap)

And if hit, the extra armour will probably fall off like usual.

 

 the extra armour might even help the tiger 1 survive an uptier.

The extra armour makes the 76mm APHE also less effective when not angled. forcing players to flank a tiger when they see it, rather than simply shoot its front plate.

 

As of now, 9 out of 10 times when i see a tiger im happy for the easy kill which i will get rather than afraid of it. Which should not be that way with a heavily armoured beast like that.

 

Ofcourse i cant force you to agree with me but i do hope you can see it from my POV

[TheDeadDisciple 35]

6 hours ago, proMLGpro said:

Only at the Optimal angle will the armour reach about 130mm, then it is relatively safe beyond 200m. However if you under or over angle slightly the 85mm or 90mm will penetrate.

So if you have the time to prepare your perfect angle from a distance you'll be safe.

But on most maps that is hard to do whist still trying to win a match by going for objectives.

In my extensive experience, the armour on the tiger 1 works less well than the armour of the panther D for example.

 

My suggestion will not make the tiger 1 OP, it'll simply increase the zone at which your angling will work.(better when suddenly facing an enemy and needing to angle asap)

And if hit, the extra armour will probably fall off like usual.

 

 the extra armour might even help the tiger 1 survive an uptier.

The extra armour makes the 76mm APHE also less effective when not angled. forcing players to flank a tiger when they see it, rather than simply shoot its front plate.

 

As of now, 9 out of 10 times when i see a tiger im happy for the easy kill which i will get rather than afraid of it. Which should not be that way with a heavily armoured beast like that.

 

Ofcourse i cant force you to agree with me but i do hope you can see it from my POV

I do see it from your POV, because I also used to think that the Tiger was a bad tank.

 

But it is not. It's got a ton of horsepower and neutral steering, so that whenever you encounter someone you can easily angle your tank. And it has never failed me thus far. The problem is not in the tank, because it's one scary sucker. The problem is that people don't know how to play their scary suckers, it's a tank that requires some skill. That is why it's underperforming on the statistics

[Dundee93 508]

It is probably one of the best balanced tanks in game EXCEPT when uptiered to 6.7, where it usually does quite badly. In my experience you have much better odds at 4.7-5.0 against 5.7-6.0 tanks than 5.7-6.0 tanks have against 6.7-7.0 tanks. 

But you are right, angling is key to using a Tiger well. 

[proMLGpro 366]

3 hours ago, Dundee93 said:

It is probably one of the best balanced tanks in game EXCEPT when uptiered to 6.7, where it usually does quite badly. In my experience you have much better odds at 4.7-5.0 against 5.7-6.0 tanks than 5.7-6.0 tanks have against 6.7-7.0 tanks. 

But you are right, angling is key to using a Tiger well. 

the only way to truely enjoy the tiger like it should be is in sim mode, there is 1 lineup where it is top tier and facing t34-85's max.

there you can play it and be a force to be reconed with also, you play on bigger maps in sim mode where the armour can do its work properly.

 

in RB its a different story, when uptiered to 6,3/6,7 there is nothing you can really do as the armour and gun become inadequate. and at close ranges +- 300m the 85mm and 90mm can still pen an angled tiger. thats one of the reasons why im suggesting this, to make it more viable when forced to play on a closer distance map.

 

i do not believe that 25mm of extra armour that can only take 1 hit before falling off will make the tank OP or a seal clubber, but that again is my personal opinion.

[Dundee93 508]

2 hours ago, proMLGpro said:

the only way to truely enjoy the tiger like it should be is in sim mode, there is 1 lineup where it is top tier and facing t34-85's max.

there you can play it and be a force to be reconed with also, you play on bigger maps in sim mode where the armour can do its work properly.

 

in RB its a different story, when uptiered to 6,3/6,7 there is nothing you can really do as the armour and gun become inadequate. and at close ranges +- 300m the 85mm and 90mm can still pen an angled tiger. thats one of the reasons why im suggesting this, to make it more viable when forced to play on a closer distance map.

 

i do not believe that 25mm of extra armour that can only take 1 hit before falling off will make the tank OP or a seal clubber, but that again is my personal opinion.

I want to support this, but I play a lot of AB and the only reason it is balanced against 4.7 is that long 75/76s can reliably penetrate it from the front. If they added this to the Tiger E and uptiered it back to 6.0 (better smoke, armor, extra MG, and APCR) that could work. 

[proMLGpro 366]

im glad for the support this is getting, i have high hopes that this might get implemented!

 

keep helping out by supplying additional photographs if you come across any!

 

[Wilhuff_Tarkin_ 467]

+1

[eleks12 1,079]

Think this tank ingame with tracks should be either a premium or folded in the tech tree!

 

but still +1 from me

[_SKELATOWOR_ 75]

By the grace of fenris yes

[old_fighter 19]

Agree !

[Matt_82 1,096]

Since the new penetration formula was implemented, there are a bunch of tanks at 4.7 and up that can plough through the armour of a Tiger 1, even when completely angled.

 

So I think that this would be a good addition.

 

 

[kamikazi21358 998]

1 hour ago, Matt_82 said:

Since the new penetration formula was implemented, there are a bunch of tanks at 4.7 and up that can plough through the armour of a Tiger 1, even when completely angled.

 

So I think that this would be a good addition.

 

 

To be entirely fair, the Sherman Firefly is not necessarily the best tank outside of it’s gun.  It is a very gun-oriented tank both historically and in game, so if the 4.7 tanks, it does deserve the ability to penetrate the Tiger.

[Matt_82 1,096]

At that angle, though?  Should a 5.7 heavy tank not expect to be protected from 4.7 medium tanks when the player angles the tank?  I mean, the Super Pershing doesn't have that even when the player makes no effort to angle.  Nor does the Tiger II.  Or T29. Or M103 (the undertiered Ru251 aside).

 

I get that the front plate is flat and that you can't expect to put the tank at a BR where nothing at a lower rating can get through the front but I think players should be rewarded for knowing how their armour is laid out and playing accordingly.  It should be extremely tough to get through heavy tanks outwith dedicated tank destroyers.

 

If you're playing Germany and need to kill a Jumbo at 5.0, your best bet is in a Dickermax.  Turretless, unarmoured, open topped and slow to reload.  Outside of that, you're looking at the small machine gun port or a very lucky trapshot.  Again, that's if the Jumbo is doing nothing but sitting in the open.  The Firefly has a turret rotation of 22°/s and a reload of 6 seconds.  I'm not saying that it's an amazing tank, though it's pretty decent but rather that I think it's a hell of a lot easier to get rid of a Tiger than most other heavy tanks in the game.

 

And c'mon, the gun recently got nerfed again and a lot of its enemies got buffed.  Are you really going to begrudge some tracks attached to the front hull?  The Tiger needs a bit of a love.

 

 

[Peasant_wb 331]

Rather than introducing more of these band-aid fixes, Gaijin should fix their damn penetration calculator and reduce BR spread.