ground vehicles Panhard AMD 35 (panhard 178)

[CaID 8,988]

 

This Suggestion is in support of the Armored Cars research line project

 

i would like to suggest the low tier but famous Panhard 178 for the french tree.

 

the development of the Panhard 178 started in 1931, When the command of the French army announced a tender for the development of a new reconnaissance armored car. Three firms took part in the competition: Pegeout, Renault and Panhard. The latter in October 1933 produced a sample, called "Panhard 178". This car was the winner.
The armored car had a classic layout, the driver was placed in front and monitored the road through the observation slot. Behind driver cockpit was a combat compartment with a turret, designed by the workshop of the Vincennes factory. In the turret were initially placed with 13.7-mm and 7.5-mm machine guns. The aft part of the car was divided into four parts. In the center was a radiator with a fan, behind the two gas tanks with a capacity of 118 and 23 liters, located one after another. Before the radiator, the engine (right) and the second driver's seat (left) were installed. The muffler, fixed vertically inside the armor, protruded slightly from the right side. Landing crew of five people, was carried out through two doors in the central part of the body: in front - on the right and behind - on the left. The wheeled propeller consisted of four driving wheels with pneumatic tires. The machine was equipped with a reverse, which allowed to move back and forth at the same speed. Smooth running was provided by semi-elliptical leaf springs and hydraulic shock absorbers. In order to more easily overcome the slopes, the Panhard 178 was equipped with two small caterpillars 0.9 meters in length, placing them under the bottom of the hull. The caterpillars were driven from the machine.

The armored car was specially tested by the commission from January 9 to February 2, 1934. During the tests, during which Panhard passed 1001 km on roads and 100 km on rough terrain, a maximum speed of 68.5 km / h and an average speed of 43.5 km / h were reached. The admissions committee ascertained that the car has a very good suspension and maintains stability at high speeds, has good cross-country traffic and a 0.6 meter wide ford. Despite the fact that the Panhard 178 was heavier, longer and higher than anticipated, its advantages over other machines were obvious. On February 15, 1934, the commission recommended that Panhard 178 be accepted for service with its conclusion. In the fall of 1934, after testing in Versailles and participating in cavalry maneuvers in Reims, the armored car was adopted under the AMD Panhard index of 1935, or AMD-35.
The first batch of 30 cars was manufactured in the autumn of 1934, and their production continued without interruptions until July 1940.

The armored car from the series was significantly different from the prototype. The hull has already become longer and the hatches of drivers have also been redesigned. The muffler was taken out and perfected the grille of the engine compartment, installed a tool box and spare parts, and removed the tracks under the bottom. And most importantly, a large tower appeared with a 25 mm Hotchkiss gun of the 1934 model and a 7.5 mm "Reybel" machine gun. The tower, developed by Puteaux, had the APX-3 index. From June 29 to December 2, 1937, in connection with the complaints of "Panara" from the 6th Cuirassier Regiment, the serial machine was tested for a long time under the number N 91688 (about 3500 km). As a result, the design of the armored car made changes that increased its reliability. At the same time, Panhard received two orders from the communications service for an armored vehicle for a powerful ER-27 radio station with a range of up to 150 km. The armored cars were intended for command posts of large units of mechanized cavalry and were manufactured by the beginning of 1939 on the basis of Panhard 178, but with the replacement of the tower by a fixed felling. By the beginning of ww2, all 24 vehicles were in Fort d'Issy, where they were captured by the Germans.

With the outbreak of the war, the release of Panhard 178 seriously inhibited the lack of ARCH-3 towers. For example, by May 17, 1940, there were 68 towers missing, and by May 22 - 61. The last sheet of production of Panhards was dated June 7, 1940. By this time, the factory had 3 ready armored cars, 55 were in production, 52 of them had no towers. Eleven days later, it was decided to install a 21 armored car without towers, a round deckhouse without a roof with six loopholes for shooting from a machine gun. In addition, some of the vehicles were armed with 25-mm and 47-mm guns behind the shields.
In total, from the beginning of the serial production to June 1940, 527 reconnaissance armored cars Panhard 178 were built. As part of the cavalry units of the French army, they took part in the war with Germany in the spring of 1940. With the proper use of these armored cars could pose a serious threat to all German armored cars and tanks. However, the majority of the Panhards got to the Germans in a perfectly working condition.

The Germans used the trophy Panars very actively, they obtained the index Pz.Spah.204 (f). More than 200 machines entered the field units of the Wehrmacht and the SS troops (the largest number of cars with standard French weapons fell into 7.PzD and 20.PzD), 43 converted into armoreddrains, a certain number entered the police armored units. By June 22, 1941, there were 190 "Panars" on the Eastern Front, 107 of which were lost by the end of the year. As of June 1943, the Wehrmacht still had 30 Panars on the Eastern Front and 33 in the West. Some of the cars were run by the police.
The French Vichy government received permission from the Germans to keep a small number of armored cars of this type, but they demanded the dismantling of 25-mm cannons. Some of the machines received a second machine gun instead of guns, although the French secretly from the Germans began to produce towers with 25-mm and 47-mm guns for the Panhards. In November 1942, when the Germans invaded the unoccupied France, these towers were destroyed. Armored vehicles of the Vichy army were used by the Germans to maintain order, and some of the Panhards, which did not have towers, were armed with a 50 mm KwK L / 42 cannon mounted behind the shield in 1943. In addition, some of the crazy cars have already undergone an easy modification - they were retrained into armored command vehicles (they never got towers).
In 1945, France re-launched the production of "Panars" (according to some sources, production was established immediately after the liberation of the French territory, in 1944). The newly built cars carried a new FL-1 tower, in which a 47-mm gun was installed. These machines served in the French army until the 60's. For example, several cars were available in Djibouti and in Syria.
In addition, some of the cars fell into the hands of the Red Army, some of them were repaired in 1942 at one of the factories in Moscow.

 

 

Variant

 

Panhard AMD 178 prototype

Spoiler

this variant was close to the production varian, the main difference what the turret and his armament who was featuring a 13,2mm as main gun. the turret was smaller and built by Vincennes factory.

 

AMD 178 (production)

Spoiler

this production variant was featuring a larger 2 man turret with a 25mm gun and a 7.5mm machine gun. this variant was the most common in the Panhard 178 family in WW2.

 

Panhard 178B (AMD 35 FL-1)

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this other production version differ from the standar version because of the larger FL-1 turret feautring a 47mm gun SA-34. this version was produced from 1944 and server mostly in the french colony.

 

 

Panhard AMD 35 APX-5

Spoiler

 

this was a colonial version with a 1 men turret APX-5 armed with the same 25mm gun, this armored car served in Indochina in a small number where it was used against the Japanese, at least 1 was capture by the Japanese.

 

Panhard 178 North African( AMD 35 AFN )

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i couldn't show any photo evidence of that version mostly because the North-african version do not differ much of the standard version. initially planed to be armed with a 37mm or a 47mm, the armament was finally unchanged, the main difference is in the Radiator  who was more adapted for the north African climate. 78 built with the special radiator.

 

Panhard 178 TD (AMD 35 Renault)

Spoiler

 

initially know as the Voiture special 207, the Panahard 178 TD was a project of 1939 to built a tank destroyer based on the Panhard 178 with a rear facing 47mm SA-37 gun to be used as a mobile artillery, however, in may 1940, the fast advance of the German forces force the french to rethink quickly the Panhard 178 TD and fit as much turret-less hull they could get with as much turret they could, with the Help of Renault, the panhard 178 was fitted with a improvised turret based on an open-top turret made for the 25mm gun. but in the improvisation, the Turret was modified to have a 47mm SA-34 gun in a closed turret, to allow the gun to be operated, the rear of the turret was raised high giving it this wear triangular look. the armor of the turret was 25mm all around with an extra 13mm of spaced explicated armor in the front where it is sloped. an unknown number of this tank destroyer was converted. probably a dozen or tow. those tank was quickly put into service without waiting.

 

 

 

 

 

Specifications
Weight	8.2 metric tonnes
Length	4.79 m with gun
Width	2.01 m
Height	2.31 m
Crew	4
Armor	20 mm
Main armament	25 mm SA 35 cannon
Secondary armament	7.5 mm Reibel machine gun
Engine	Panhard SK 105 hp
Suspension	leaf spring
Ground clearance	0.35 m
Operational range	300 km
Speed	72 km/h

 

 

additional photo

Spoiler

 

source

https://www.wwiivehicles.com/france/vehicle/armored-cars/panhard-p178-armored-car.asp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_178

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/Panhard-178_AMD-35.php

http://www.club-panhard-france.net/Site/index.php/29-la-gamme-panhard/les-modeles-militaires/68-les-vehicules-militaires

http://www.minitracks.fr/amd35_tr14.htm

http://www.warwheels.net/Panhard178B_index.html

http://amd-35.narod.ru/AMD35/AMD35_main.htm

Edited May 19, 2018 by CaID

[SAUBER_KH7 3,325]

Open for Discussion.

[Le_Flemard 143]

Honestly, twould be a better reserve vehicle that what we have atm -_-

[CaID 8,988]

10 minutes ago, Le_Flemard said:

Honestly, twould be a better reserve vehicle that what we have atm -_-

they are a bit better than the actual reserve, but i feel like Gaijin have a little reticence to introduce the armored car in the main tree as the M8 (who was famous and widely use) and the AEC MK II (who was a great weapon in the north African campaign) the Sd.Kfz 234/4 are actual rare event vehicles and not premium or regular vehicles. also, i think those vehicles are fit for a BR.1,3 to 2.0. the Gendron-Somua is fit for 1.0.

[Xenecrite 899]

here is the information about Panhard Series vehicles :

AMD 35 Panhard 178:

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AMD 38 Panhard 178:

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AMD 40 Panhard 178:

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AMD 35 Panhard 178 à Casemate 25 mm:

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AMD 35 Panhard 178 à Casemate 47 mm:

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AMD Panhard 165/175 TOE:

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AMD 35 Panhard 178 Type "Cochinchine":

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[Exiahhh 38]

+1 would like to see armored car line for France 

[Kempston 342]

I think this would work well not only in the French Tech tree but maybe as a German Premium armoured car? Considering that the Germans used nearly all Panhards they captured. +1

[Admiral_Aruon 2,263]

+5 for all of them. it'll make for a good AC line and all of them are viable. one could even be a german premium.

 

 

what's this though about an unturreted Panhard with a german 50mm behind a gun shield? that would make for a cool premium for france or germany.

[CaID 8,988]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:01 PM, Admiral_Aruon said:

what's this though about an unturreted Panhard with a german 50mm behind a gun shield? that would make for a cool premium for france or germany.

like one of those?

 

 

[Admiral_Aruon 2,263]

3 hours ago, CaID said:

like one of those?

 

 

 

ah. yeeees. gud.

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

I don't know if this applies, but there are 2 primary modifications of the Panhard 178 in German service: 

 

Some with 50mm KwK 38 L/42 guns like the Panzer III F, called the "5cm KwK 38 L/42 auf Panzerspahwagen 204(f)": 

Spoiler

 

And another with the 50mm KwK 39 L/60 like the Panzer III M and Puma, called the "5cm KwK 39 L/60 auf Panzerspahwagen 204(f)": 

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I also heard that some were modified with German 20mm KwK 30s and 38s, but I cant seem to find a picture. And no CaiD, you cant suggest these as you've hogged ALL the armored car suggestions, give someone else a turn ))))))))))))))))))) 

 

Oh, and +1 for all of those  

Edited January 8, 2018 by xX_Lord_James_Xx

[CaID 8,988]

2 minutes ago, xX_Lord_James_Xx said:

I don't know if this applies, but there are 2 primary modifications of the Panhard 178 in German service: 

 

Some with 50mm KwK 38 L/42 guns like the Panzer III F: 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And another with the 50mm KwK 39 L/60, like the Panzer III M and Puma: 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And no CaiD, you cant suggest these as you've hogged ALL the armored car suggestions, give someone else a turn ))))))))))))))))))) 

 

Oh, and +1 for all of those  

it apply but under the PanzerSpawhWagun P.204(F) there is a suggestion made a while ago, it was a request from someone.

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by CaID

[CaID 8,988]

i try to let people do their own suggestion. i am not flooding the suggestion all at once, there is a lot of suggestion i already made but didn't post. i am waiting for them. for example, i have 8 french tanks writen and ready to be post. but i am waiting to see the official release of the french tree then i will suggest 2 of them every 2 days. i control the flow. the last french tanks suggested was only to have the essential tanks for the armored car line.

[xX_Lord_James_Xx 2,400]

Just 1 more question: 

 

Have you made any suggestions for the Zugkraftwagen Somua MCL 303(f) or MCG 307(f) or any of their variants? 

 

mutters to self "please say no. please say no, please say no" 

 

And if the answer is no... please don't start one... 

Edited January 8, 2018 by xX_Lord_James_Xx

[CaID 8,988]

all the suggestion that wasn't yet suggested can be suggested by anyone. this is why i am waiting, to let the chance to be suggested by anyone who would like to try it. do your suggestion, i have no suggestion pending for aproval right now and there wouldn't be any from me for a couple weeks.

[onemax9000 1,242]

+1

[Bingoblast_Wilcz 248]

Yes. More ACs = more fun.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Bingoblast_Wilcz

[Milocat 4,842]

These would be wonderful additions.  You have my full support.

[Valcour 1,139]

+1  But I am sure the Germans will get it first.

 

[BrentD15@psn 1,116]

+1 from me.

[player62514 607]

+1

[RexRegal 17]

All of them pls

[BrentD15@psn 1,116]

On 20/11/2018 at 04:08, RexRegal said:

All of them pls

Yes, please.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

L'Ecole des Chars de Combat. Silhouttes D' Engnis Blindes. Ministere De La Defense Nationale Et De La Guerre. Aout 1937. 05201

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CaID 8,988]

On 30/05/2019 at 22:48, Private_Wolk said:

L'Ecole des Chars de Combat. Silhouttes D' Engnis Blindes. Ministere De La Defense Nationale Et De La Guerre. Aout 1937. 05201

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to be honest, this armored car shalln't fare any worse than the Daimler AC Mk.II. also with the crew of 4, the reload shall be faster than 3.6sec, probably around 2 second. i think it could be just fine in BR 1.3. the APX 5 as premium and 178B as 1.7 or 2.0 in rank 2 (still a post war armored car after all). those 3 should be easy to get accurate data on them and reduce the guesswork to a realistic level. it's uncertain fro the other through.